MFC Heritage Listing

[Guest MFC4Life]

http://www.theage.com.au/national/demons-s...80624-2w67.html

Would be quite astounding if it comes to fruition.

[The Emblem 1]

http://www.theage.com.au/national/demons-s...80624-2w67.html

Would be quite astounding if it comes to fruition.

And Profesor Pascoe deserves "legend" status.

Professor Pascoe could not resist a swipe at the old enemy, but conceded that Collingwood also had a legitimate case for recognition by the National Trust.

"Down at Collingwood, there has always been a conceit that they are responsible for everything. It's part of a long history of whingeing at that club," Professor Pascoe said.

[Rogue 585]

Victoria University dean laureate Robert Pascoe, who will speak at next week's symposium on intangible heritage, has backed Melbourne's bid for heritage protection. Professor Pascoe also declared himself a Demons fan.

I've met Robert Pascoe, but wasn't aware he was a Dees fan. I think he's American - he's certainly spent some time over there - but has a great interest in AFL and its impact on the state's history.

[45HG 1,539]

I say we fight for it. Why not, another additional aspect to our great club, and one that is probably deserved.

However the AFL, and Vlad, will probably hate it and brand it "irrelevant" as apparently our history has no relevance to our club

[Choko 493]

I say we fight for it. Why not, another additional aspect to our great club, and one that is probably deserved.

However the AFL, and Vlad, will probably hate it and brand it "irrelevant" as apparently our history has no relevance to our club

It's actually quite brilliant thinking by the club.

Ordinarily, Heritage status is given to items. Becoming heritage listed gives protections to the subject of the listing, which anyone who has ever tried to deal with heritage listed property would know all too well! What that all means is that if we get such listing, we would be somewhat protected as an item of broad significance to Victoria/Australia.

[Supreme_Demon 3,011]

I was one of the few people that suggested this a few months ago.

I really hope it goes through.

The Melbourne football club is 150 years old and it was indeed Melbourne players that helped create the rules for our great game way back in 1858.

We are the OLDEST football club in the world and I personally believe that we deserve heritage status.

[beelzebub 22,269]

I still dont understnd what they actually intend to list.. The History of the club isnt going anywhere. The physical aspects are in museums etcetcetc.. You cant heritage a "notion" it has to be physical. Seems all teriibly batty to me.

[Supreme_Demon 3,011]

I think the reasoning behind the heritage listing of the MFC is because it will help with preventing the club from being killed off, relocated or merged by the AFL or other outside factors.

The MFC deserves every right for applying for heritage listing seeing as we are 150 years old (est. 1858) and it was Melbourne football players/officials that helped create Aussie rules football.

It will also provide protection for the MFC with federal government funding etc.

[beelzebub 22,269]

Ok.. This is my thinking as to why its [censored]. According to some pundits we have this "entity" that is the MFC. It sis to be enshrined in plastic and listed, protecting it from all things nasty and to live forever in perpetuity.

Hypothetically...we go south ( no no ..not Launceston ..lol ) ..we do the gurgler trip.. So what remains. Theres no actual team, no infrastructure..nothing but recorded history and an "entity" with no body called the MFC..It makes no sense. No one can merge, use or touch it without preserving its identity . It has no real value. It would be like preserving the facade of a building...but at least thats physical. There is no practical use for an "entity" Unless someone else creates a substance upon which to rest it as a name.

I think the people at Heritage Australia are being terribly kind here.. really they should be telling some folk to lay off the bournbons so early in the morning.. there is NO logic to it.

Everything that is the History of the Club ,is wand wil be preserved...thats our Heritage...and the medium for its acknowledgement is the recording of it.

[deanox 8,732]

Ok.. This is my thinking as to why its [censored]. According to some pundits we have this "entity" that is the MFC. It sis to be enshrined in plastic and listed, protecting it from all things nasty and to live forever in perpetuity.

Hypothetically...we go south ( no no ..not Launceston ..lol ) ..we do the gurgler trip.. So what remains. Theres no actual team, no infrastructure..nothing but recorded history and an "entity" with no body called the MFC..It makes no sense. No one can merge, use or touch it without preserving its identity . It has no real value. It would be like preserving the facade of a building...but at least thats physical. There is no practical use for an "entity" Unless someone else creates a substance upon which to rest it as a name.

I think the people at Heritage Australia are being terribly kind here.. really they should be telling some folk to lay off the bournbons so early in the morning.. there is NO logic to it.

Everything that is the History of the Club ,is wand wil be preserved...thats our Heritage...and the medium for its acknowledgement is the recording of it.

i see what you mean, but the article does say that the conference is a forum for discussion of 'intangible' herritage listing. similar to interlectual property rights and other intangible notions, the mfc must exist as the mfc for all time. that means the mfc cannot become the gold coast demons, or the melbourne koalas. it must be red and blue. one could start new teams with these names, and one could still disolve the mfc into nothing if the club had no members and no money, and the afl revoked the licence. but the advantage would be, even if the club 'moved' or 'merged' the mfc would have to remain, and the new club would be a new entity entirely, even though mfc people might move to the new club. that means we would still exist, and probably have an opportunity to compete at vfl level if the members were to vote for a board that went down that path, rather than the fitzroy path of the club becoming a strange part of brisbanes 'history'. at least sydney is the one club...

the downside is, if we went broke, we might have to repay debts before we could continue.

does anyone know who has liability at the club if it simply goes bankrupt? the members? the board? the afl?

[brey9186 102]

i then think a heritage listed item has to be maintained to a certain extent by the government...

[do it 4 robbie 1]

Is the Heritage Trust cashed up ? If so, they can be our major sponser for ever.

[45HG 1,539]

I think a big problem for them in naming a sporting team, aside from all the rest, is where do you draw the line?

Will Geelong then get heritage because of being the first regional team? Essendon the first premiership team? Sydney the first interstate team? WCE the first non-Melbourne affiliated team? Adelaide the first interstate team to go back to back? St. Kilda and the Bulldogs for only winning two combined premiership in over 100 seasons?

Tony Lockett's remains for being the top goalscorer? The MCG, because it's in the same shape it was when it began?

I don't know. I like the idea, but i would never hope it would be more than a nice touch for our club.

Can't see it happening though

[Yencks 8]

the melbourne grammar 1sts team is technically the oldest football club but melbourne is the oldest proffesional side

[45HG 1,539]

How are they older than Scotch?

and Melbourne weren't professional at this stage anyway, that took a long, long time

[Supreme_Demon 3,011]

This heritage status is only a possibility.

We are 150 years old and deserve to at least apply via the national trust.

It doesn't mean it will happen or not.

We need to look at as many possibilities as we can to keep the MFC alive.

[beelzebub 22,269]

Ok..another bite at this.. as I still dont see what in the end it does.

How does any sort of "listing" provide for the clubs viablilty ?? existance is a commercial eqaution not a historical one. Either the club exists or it doesnt. Its history always will whether or not a club still continues in a competition. You can preserve Pharlap all you like and make him a National Icon and worth preserving..but I cant see him racing any day soon !!

[w00dy 146]

heritage listing at best will see the MFC remain in some form if the worst was to happen... perhaps as a VFL side or something like that...

but it doesn't guarantee that we will remain in the AFL, not by any means

[45HG 1,539]

Given that it's a relatively new form of heritage listing, intangible, it's probably unknown by all to what form it will be and what it will mean for our club.

Because there is no precedent, we cannot know if it can protect us or if it simply a tag for our club. We should just wait and see

[beelzebub 22,269]

Unless they are paying bills..how can "listing" provide for anything another than acknowledgement in perpetuity ??. It's like buying acreage on the moon...sounds good but theres no substance

[deanox 8,732]

Ok..another bite at this.. as I still dont see what in the end it does.

How does any sort of "listing" provide for the clubs viablilty ?? existance is a commercial eqaution not a historical one. Either the club exists or it doesnt. Its history always will whether or not a club still continues in a competition. You can preserve Pharlap all you like and make him a National Icon and worth preserving..but I cant see him racing any day soon !!

did you read my post above? i explained what the effect of heritage listing could have on the club. you seem to have missed it.

[deanox 8,732]

the melbourne grammar 1sts team is technically the oldest football club but melbourne is the oldest proffesional side

without knowing the full details, would the scotch school boys team not be the first 'team' to play the game, while the MFC be the first 'club' as it was an actual formation of a club, not just a group of school kids playing sport?

and out of interest, i am pretty sure that 4 members of the mfc sat down and wrote out the first set of rules. it would be pretty hard for and other teams to play before the rules were written out wouldnt it?

[Yencks 8]

How are they older than Scotch?

and Melbourne weren't professional at this stage anyway, that took a long, long time

here are the facts...the first recorded match of the game we know today was played between melbourne grammar and scotch in 1858..."melbourne grammar head John Edward Bromby, on three Saturdays spread over 5 weeks, in the first year of his headmastership, allowed his students to play Scotch College in the first game of football"...

the goals were 800 metres apart and it ended up being a 1-1 all draw.

it is believed that dr bromby, head of melbourne grammar initiated the match with scotch.

Historians have found evidence of earlier matches, one of which was believed to be between melbourne grammar and st kilda grammar but these were not "recorded."

that is why today the melbourne grammar scotch rivalry is the oldest rivalry in football, and every five or six years they play their much anticipated annual match on the MCG; this year as the curtain raiser for the geelong melbourne match (the two oldest AFL teams)...15,000 are expected to attend

In the Melbournefc Anniversary Magazine that came out in the Age earlier this year

"Like Australian rules, Melbourne Grammar School began in 1858. In fact, the first recorded match of the code was played between Grammar and Scotch College in August of that year. In the 150 years since..." blah blah blah

so Melbourne is the oldest club but not the oldest team in the history of the game...but yes they do deserve heritage listing and deserve a lot of acolade for making the game what it is

what i believe happened is, after the match, obviously later that year, the MCC decided to make a team and formed what we know today to be the melbourne football club and i presume from there deanox more rules were decided on

[45HG 1,539]

With a score of 1-1 after three consecutive Saturdays, the MFC probably could claim to be the first anything in Australian rules, because Scotch and Grammar were playing soccer

[Yencks 8]

With a score of 1-1 after three consecutive Saturdays, the MFC probably could claim to be the first anything in Australian rules, because Scotch and Grammar were playing soccer

i know you are joking around but apparantly the game resembled rugby..but the thing that made it different and the reason it took off was because of the freedom to kick the ball in any direction to a pack of people that could contest the ball