Matthew Bate

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Looked up Bates Profile and was surprised to see that he is 192cm. Is that right? He is strongly built and will no doubt get stronger. He is good overhead and has a thumping and accurate left foot. Could he be developed into our permanent CHF?

Jonathan Brown 195cm

Travis Cloke 196cm

Scott Lucas 192cm

Jarryd Roughead 193cm

Nick Riewoldt 193cm

I never really saw him as a KPP, rather as a mobile flanker with good hands but maybe he could be one of the key forwards that we need. I think he has the strength and the overhead marking ability. Thoughts?

[Diablo 1]

Looked up Bates Profile and was surprised to see that he is 192cm. Is that right? He is strongly built and will no doubt get stronger. He is good overhead and has a thumping and accurate left foot. Could he be developed into our permanent CHF?

Jonathan Brown 195cm

Travis Cloke 196cm

Scott Lucas 192cm

Jarryd Roughead 193cm

Nick Riewoldt 193cm

I never really saw him as a KPP, rather as a mobile flanker with good hands but maybe he could be one of the key forwards that we need. I think he has the strength and the overhead marking ability. Thoughts?

Let's hope so. The only flaw I see in Bate's game is that he occasionally seems to lose his concentration. Sometimes his mitts are like a venus fly trap, and other times they are like cement. I'm not sure whether concentration is a pre-requisite for being a CHF, but it's this inconsistency which is at present the only thing stopping him becoming a top, top player.

[Neita3000 37]

hmm nothing really new here. whilst he is listed as 192cm he certainly doesn't play that tall. Having height doesn't necessarily guarantee you the abillity to play in a key position.

[H_T 2,941]

Let's hope so. The only flaw I see in Bate's game is that he occasionally seems to lose his concentration. Sometimes his mitts are like a venus fly trap, and other times they are like cement. I'm not sure whether concentration is a pre-requisite for being a CHF, but it's this inconsistency which is at present the only thing stopping him becoming a top, top player.

You are right regarding losing concentration when marking, too inconsistent he either looks strong on the lead and marks, or presents then takes it easy at times when marking and drops or gets spoilt alot from opponent. Bate is not the bash and crash type CHF or strong mark overhead. More the lead up type CHF, much like Travis Cloke's mould. But he is still young with only 40 games under his belt. When he gets to 60-80 games, then look for improvement. He is probably the player I am looking forward to developing the most out of the list. He' is a superb tackler when on song, great technique. Colin Sylvia should watch this kid tackle and learn something instead of giving away push in the back free kicks when tackling...

[jabberwocky 2,301]

hmm nothing really new here. whilst he is listed as 192cm he certainly doesn't play that tall. Having height doesn't necessarily guarantee you the abillity to play in a key position.

On the contrary. When he has been on song his hands overhead are excellent. Just because he has good mobility and wins possessions in other ways doesn't mean he doesn't play tall. What you might be referring to is his vertical leap. I cant recall him getting off the ground in a big way but all players have thier limitations. I see him more as a bullocking, strong leading forward. The perfect CHF is one that can mark the footy and be dangerous when the ball hits the ground as well. Bater is capable of being that player.

[H_T 2,941]

On the contrary. When he has been on song his hands overhead are excellent. Just because he has good mobility and wins possessions in other ways doesn't mean he doesn't play tall. What you might be referring to is his vertical leap. I cant recall him getting off the ground in a big way but all players have thier limitations. I see him more as a bullocking, strong leading forward. The perfect CHF is one that can mark the footy and be dangerous when the ball hits the ground as well. Bater is capable of being that player.

One things for sure Bate can be very dangerous when ball goes to ground after his contest. When he gets the ball around 55 metres out and with space....lookout! I am pleased with MFC picking him in the draft. Huge upside yet to come.

[torpedo 33]

Hasnt he always been touted as a future CHF?

Whether he's got the build to be a CHF or not isnt that important, permanent positions are becoming less and less relevant as the modern game develops. The bottom line is Bate is best playing across half forward, thats all that matters. Robert Murphy at the Doggies is a similar comparison, people call him a CHF because he is their focal point across their half forward line, he plays and looks more like a flanker though.

I think a more relevant question would be should Bate be our main target across half forward? I think why have one when you can have two. I like both Bate and Miller playing across half forward, they are both strong targets, they are both far more valuable up the ground than playing out the goal square, and having them both across half forward stretches the opposition defence.

Perhaps over time one will become a more regular target than the other, I dont think thats necessarily desireable though. The Doggies forward line this year is the perfect model for those teams that dont have a monster forward like a Franklin or a Brown, multiple targets and goal kickers rotating through different parts of the forward line, showing little regard for traditional positions and body size.

[Gouga 508]

Good post.

There are different style CHFs now compared to say the 80s, early 90s.

I'd say Jonathan Brown plays like Wayne Carey. He is more stay at home, contested mark type CHF where as both Bate and Miller as well as Travis Cloke and Ryan O'Keefe are the hard running type, create space type.

Ideally we'd have one of Bate and Miller accross half forward all the time presenting into the centre and wings, then the other of the two lurking from 40m - 60m and one of PJ or Newton deep with Davey and Aussie at their feet.

[H_T 2,941]

Good post.

There are different style CHFs now compared to say the 80s, early 90s.

I'd say Jonathan Brown plays like Wayne Carey. He is more stay at home, contested mark type CHF where as both Bate and Miller as well as Travis Cloke and Ryan O'Keefe are the hard running type, create space type.

Ideally we'd have one of Bate and Miller accross half forward all the time presenting into the centre and wings, then the other of the two lurking from 40m - 60m and one of PJ or Newton deep with Davey and Aussie at their feet.

And Maric.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Future CHF?

Of sorts...

I don't think the "Big Red Pav" is a fair title. His leads, marks one-on-one (even when closely marked), pace and kicking distance and accuracy (on the run) are all prodigious. But I hate him in packs and in the air. The big J. Brown/Fevalenko pack marks are not something he'll ever perfect.

That said, you look at players like Cloke... And he's a better player than that. He is one of the first picked in the side I'd wager, and will remain that way for a good 8 or so more years.

[Jarka 767]

He'd be a real asset to the bulldogs with their rotating forwardline, as he can play as a leading marker and also further up the ground. Sure he doesn't have great lateral movement and I don't think he is a traditional CHF type but his skills will come in handy in the future years.

[H_T 2,941]

Future CHF?

Of sorts...

I don't think the "Big Red Pav" is a fair title. His leads, marks one-on-one (even when closely marked), pace and kicking distance and accuracy (on the run) are all prodigious. But I hate him in packs and in the air. The big J. Brown/Fevalenko pack marks are not something he'll ever perfect.

That said, you look at players like Cloke... And he's a better player than that. He is one of the first picked in the side I'd wager, and will remain that way for a good 8 or so more years.

Yes, he struggles in the air. When he is fatigued he looks fragile in marking contests. Needs a bigger motor.

[Swampfox 190]

Bate looks like he could become very good footballer but not a key position player let alone a centre half forward

IMO Bate has utility written all over him and best played as a flanker at either end of the ground

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

He'd be a real asset to the bulldogs with their rotating forwardline, as he can play as a leading marker and also further up the ground. Sure he doesn't have great lateral movement and I don't think he is a traditional CHF type but his skills will come in handy in the future years.

That's interesting. I look at the dogs, even from when Wallet had them, and I see the way footy is going... people saying power forwards are a dying breed and all that... and perhaps in 10 years Bate will be the forward-type everyone wants. Mybe there won't be any more slow players... just fast little guys, and even faster big guys... Who knows? Bate could be the kind of player that only feels more at home as time passes...

Yes, he struggles in the air. When he is fatigued he looks fragile in marking contests. Needs a bigger motor.

He has a big motor I reckon. I just reckon he has next-to-no leap. And that's ok. Hopefully it'll be the reason they leave him out of the forward fifty and place Sylvia, Miller and others there.

[Freak 100]

i think bate would be good in the backline because he has the turning circle of a truck. In the backline he can attack the footy straight on, run the lines and use his big left foot. In the forward line, he marks the ball..takes 5 minutes turning around which by then all of the other players have flooded back.

[sylvinator 96]

i think bate would be good in the backline because he has the turning circle of a truck. In the backline he can attack the footy straight on, run the lines and use his big left foot. In the forward line, he marks the ball..takes 5 minutes turning around which by then all of the other players have flooded back.

Very harsh. 3rd in our B&F last season playing the entire season in the forward line. he must be doing something right.

He has played well this year as a mobile forward and continues to impress. i liked him game against Sydney.

I see him as a mobile CHF. Perhaps we could play dual CHFs with Miller and Bate.

[Himark 0]

Bate looks like he could become very good footballer but not a key position player let alone a centre half forward

IMO Bate has utility written all over him and best played as a flanker at either end of the ground

Bate is effectively playing the new style CHF role now... it's called "position 5" these days..... so is a bit surprising to hear he won't become a key position player!!

I believe Bate could play any position including key positions, bar ruck. In the past he has played all key positions at both district and TAC Cup (except ruck).

To those who think he has no leap, observe next time he goes up for a big fist away from an opponent, or does go third man up, he gets well off the ground in those instances.

I believe his leaping marks will be something he develops over time as he gains confidence. He probably prefers to keep his feet firmly on the ground at the moment, which is a strength in itself.

I like the first goal he kicked against the Swans; he gave a side bump that knocked his opponent into next week, kept his own balance, turned on a dime, sprinted ten metres with an opponent busting his clacker to catch him and booted a perfect checkside from an angle. That piece of play had almost everything in it, anticipation, strength, balance, agility, speed, power, skill, footy smarts and also showed a ruthless predatory attitude.

For those that think he's not agile, Bate was in the top 10 in agility at the AIS in his draft year, score was 8.7, from memory, and he is bigger than you think.

It is true that he does turn into space while looking for the best option and that is a weapon he uses rather than stopping and propping. He does move laterally but not by much, just enough to evade because he can bust through as well.

Physically he will probably play at about 96kg when fully mature and at 192cm has more than enough height for a KP in the modern game.

Yes, I am a bit of a fan of the Bater.

[timD 994]

Excellent post Himark. Captured a number of things that people fail to capture. There is a reason that maltohuse put the c'wood most mobile backman onto him, and it is not because bate lacks mobility!

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Good stuff Himark...

I'm going to have an even closer look at the Bateatron now, if that were possible. I don't trust many of our players when the ball goes near them, or when they are required to show some polish, but Bate fills me with confidence. My criticisms are very small things indeed, and his strengths as a player completely outweigh his weaknesses.

When I said he has no leap, I meant that he doesn't get much air-time in the packs... But as you said, the fact he keeps his feet is a strength in itself. Look at Robbo :S Bate somehow comes up with the ball even though he doesn't fly, so the end result is the same.

Here's one thing to think about... When was the last time he put together 2 horrible games in a row? I think early last year he might have frustrated a bit... but since then whenever he's done something to [censored] off demonlanders, he'll inevitably come out the week after and kick 3 goals, take 12 marks, get 20 touches....

So whenever I see him play a bad one, I look forward to seeing him the following week as he so often has come out and had a blinder. How many MFC players can boast that?

[Himark 0]

Excellent post Himark. Captured a number of things that people fail to capture. There is a reason that maltohuse put the c'wood most mobile backman onto him, and it is not because bate lacks mobility!

Thanks for stating your support to my view, I reckon Bater deserves to have people point out some of the more subtle nuances of his game.

Great point, yes, Harry O'Brien was a good matchup for Bater and really a salute from Malthouse if you like! I think Bater will relish the challenge next time it comes up.

As well as Bater copping some horrible bounces of the ball that day (and slipping 3 times, no excuses there), Harry could actually keep up with him, which takes some fair amount of doing. I reckon Bater must run close to 16-17k each game.

The delivery needed to be spot on to him and while generally in the vicinity, tended to be always landing on Baters head or needing him to break stride and .... there was Harry.

Even on that day though, Bater kept running, leading, creating options, positioning himself in holes to cut off Magpie space and doing what he could at all times.

A lot to like..!

[timD 994]

Don't Himark - if you start making the comparison that I think you are going to make it will create stressfulness.

And you are right about the delivery on that day - dogawful! Bater worked hard but without success - harry had the better of the day. Bater seemed to be just off on about everything. The crispness in delivery to bate could well have been the difference betwen winning and losing that match.

[deanox 8,643]

Looked up Bates Profile and was surprised to see that he is 192cm. Is that right? He is strongly built and will no doubt get stronger. He is good overhead and has a thumping and accurate left foot. Could he be developed into our permanent CHF?

Jonathan Brown 195cm

Travis Cloke 196cm

Scott Lucas 192cm

Jarryd Roughead 193cm

Nick Riewoldt 193cm

I never really saw him as a KPP, rather as a mobile flanker with good hands but maybe he could be one of the key forwards that we need. I think he has the strength and the overhead marking ability. Thoughts?

so he is shorter than cale morton or the same height?

i like bate, but from what ive seen he isnt strong enough over head, or marking in packs to be a true CHF. how do you think his strength is when trying to mark body on body? he can lead and mark well, can kick well on the run, has a great motor etc, but he isnt a true CHF.

[deanox 8,643]

I like both Bate and Miller playing across half forward, they are both strong targets, they are both far more valuable up the ground than playing out the goal square, and having them both across half forward stretches the opposition defence.

good post in general but i question this part. they are more valuable up the field? they kick less goals up there and atm the one thing we really need is goal kickers isnt it?

[Roost It 1,434]

Maybe Watts or Hurley at CHF, Miller out of the square, Woona crumbing, Bater and Colin as HF's running amok and PJ Roaming around as a tall crunching type to keep the backmen on there toes.

Is it just me or does that sound like a fairly impressive forward line.

Maybe Garland and Maric/Davey as well

Hang on, is that depth in the forward line?

Barring injury and presuming these guys keep developing is there Gold in them there hills?

[Jarka 767]

Excellent post Himark. Captured a number of things that people fail to capture. There is a reason that maltohuse put the c'wood most mobile backman onto him, and it is not because bate lacks mobility!

Coming from the person who thinks Zomer is the natural replacement from Neitz your praise means jack [censored], the poor guy can't even get a regular game for Sandy's firsts and you're happy to put that sort of pressure on him

/sigh

Bate is a good player, but let's not get carried away and build up unrealistic expectations. If you go down that path you'll just get disappointed with his performances. He has several decent attributes, he works hard and he puts his head over the ball. I'm confident he'll end up a 200+ gamer and be a consistent performer, but he doesn't have the agility of a Steve Johnson or the skill of a Didak, don't try to make him out to be something he isn't.

I quoted you in my signature because I think the stuff you come up with is absolutely hilarious, the saddest thing is that you actually believe them. Your comment that two players who have spent a big chunk of the year playing for Sandy's 2nd's are the replacements for David Neitz (who holds both the games and goals record and has been awarded with all Australian selection and won a Coleman medal) shows your lack of knowledge of the game and our list. Added to that is the fact that you come onto this site and pretend that you know what you're talking about just increasing the amusement factor.

I'f that something that makes you proud then good for you, I'm happy that you're happy that someone is paying you some attention.