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[Cards13 9,117]

Australia caught deliberately ball tampering in SA, scheme cooked up and agreed to by the leadership team?!?!

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/dark-day-for-australian-cricket-as-steve-smith-admits-plan-to-cheat-20180325-p4z63q.html

They all need to be banned, what a fiasco. 

[Kumamoto_Ken 1,531]

33 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Australia caught deliberately ball tampering in SA, scheme cooked up and agreed to by the leadership team?!?!

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/dark-day-for-australian-cricket-as-steve-smith-admits-plan-to-cheat-20180325-p4z63q.html

They all need to be banned, what a fiasco. 

They'll have to cop it in terms of penalties and being called 'cheats' for the rest of their careers (post-career too). Pathetic news to wake up to.

Thank god the footy has started

[Cards13 9,117]

1 hour ago, Kumamoto_Ken said:

They'll have to cop it in terms of penalties and being called 'cheats' for the rest of their careers (post-career too). Pathetic news to wake up to.

Thank god the footy has started

And so they should!! 

[dieter 3,325]

On 3/20/2018 at 7:39 PM, ding said:

Anyone surprised Rabada got off? The instant i saw that a Kiwi bloke was hearing the appeal i would have bet my life savings that he would be able to play.

I fully expect Australia to be utterly humiliated on the field in the next test. Rabada to have another 10-for match.

Both Marshes to fail twice. Smith to fall to Rabada both times.

Saffas by an innings.

 

 

Jeff Crowe is a Kiwi as well...He's the one who let Mr BoganvilliaWarner  - who has forgotten that he's in the team to make runs not verbal war - off for behaving like a drunk looking for a fight during the tea break.

[JV7 2,354]

Absolute disgrace... Smith & the rest of the leadership group must be stood down & not played in the next test. Screw the series even if we can potentially draw it in the 4th.

Funnily enough I was told from an inside source Renshaw didn't get along with Smith & co and wasn't "one of the boys" maybe they'vetried it on him before & he stood up to them and said no, maybe that's why he was left out pre ashes. 

[Macca 17,035]

Hard to believe that 5 senior players believing that (a) the concept of ball tampering was a good idea and (b) that they'd even get away with it. 

Cricket fans will want blood and mass sackings ... but I've always believed that ball tampering goes on as a matter of course.  And there's been a number of incidents over the years that reinforces that view. 

However,  the incident just looks so brazen & blatant.  And idiotic.   This team is not well-liked to begin with so the repercussions could be enormous. 

But there's no excuse looked at in isolation and the person most responsible for this fiasco is the captain Steven Smith (unless Darren Lehmann knew about the plan as well) ... there's a press conference on at midday with James Sutherland - that will be more than interesting.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Macca

[ding 5,126]

What the actual [censored] has happened to our cricket team? How did they come to a collective decision that cheating was ok? Maybe they felt so [censored] off with South Africa in general (and there are no more arrogant supporters in the world) that somehow it justified in their tiny little brains that beating them at all costs was ok.

Smith must be sacked. Anyone who agreed to cheat must also serve time, even if we cant field a team for the last game.

Send 'em home in disgrace.

[Macca 17,035]

Can't wait for the Test to restart again tonight ... a sell-out crowd will be baying for blood.  Could be a hostile crowd and there will be nowhere to hide. 

Sutherland's press conference was beige ... but I've never liked him as a CEO anyway.  CA could do better. 

Hard to see Smith surviving this ... as a captain at least.  Others could lose their spots or standing as well.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Macca

[Bonkers 994]

15 minutes ago, Macca said:

Can't wait for the Test to restart again tonight ... a sell-out crowd will be baying for blood.  Could be a hostile and there will be nowhere to hide. 

Sutherland's press conference was beige ... but I've never liked him as a CEO anyway.  CA could do better. 

Hard to see Smith surviving this ... as a captain at least.  Others could lose their spots or standing as well.

As a CEO what can you really say? He has to go through due process and then hand down findings. He basically said he wasn't happy about what happened and was shocked. He can't go and shoot from the hip, if he does that just makes the sutuation worse. I'm neither here nor there about his leadership but he's between a rock and a hard place on this one. Don't envy him being in this position. 

 

[Axis of Bob 11,855]

It's the risk CA has taken in giving a relatively young Smith, an ultra-competitive and single minded player, captaincy without providing the support around him on the field to temper him. Instead they have made Warner vice-captain, who is older, hot-tempered and prove to overstepping the mark under pressure. Smith is being guided towards this end of his personality rather than counterbalanced with a calm, rational leader.

I can see how this happens in that team. The conversations are about reverse swing, SA's success with it, linked to Faf's history of tampering and how they need to do it to make it a level playing field. If they keep agreeing with each other then eventually it seems acceptable. But with a wise, calm, older and respected head on the team that conversation gets shut off before it gets anywhere near that point. If a young Michael Clarke (purely as a hypothetical) starts down that path then Hussey and Gilchrist quickly tell him to pull his head it, and the train of thought ends there.

I'm sure Smith could well have been a fine captain, but there's nobody in the team to tell him to stand up to him when required. The only senior players are Warner and SMarsh. Warner will egg him on and Marsh has never been a leader. As a result, Smith has had too much say, whether he's been right or wrong, and has never been able to learn how to lead properly. 

While Smith is ultimately responsible for the ball tampering, Cricket Australia has failed him badly. I hope that this sad day can be used as a catalyst for genuine culture change within the team for the betterment of Australian cricket.

[Bonkers 994]

33 minutes ago, ding said:

What the actual [censored] has happened to our cricket team? How did they come to a collective decision that cheating was ok? Maybe they felt so [censored] off with South Africa in general (and there are no more arrogant supporters in the world) that somehow it justified in their tiny little brains that beating them at all costs was ok.

Smith must be sacked. Anyone who agreed to cheat must also serve time, even if we cant field a team for the last game.

Send 'em home in disgrace.

Well we don't know how much of a collective it was whether it was Smith, Warner and Bancroft or whether it was more than that. It'd be even worse if there were more involved than those 3 as we then have a systemic problem and pretty much no worthy leadership in the team. Smith has to be stripped of the captaincy and at least face a ban. Bancroft whilst he is stupid is not as culpable as smith IMO. 

I also wonder whether Lehman is involved in this. He will be leaving as coach after the next ashes anyway so won't be a huge loss if he's implicated. 

Looks like a time of change in leadership & direction whatever way you look at it. 

 

 

[Bonkers 994]

1 minute ago, Axis of Bob said:

It's the risk CA has taken in giving a relatively young Smith, an ultra-competitive and single minded player, captaincy without providing the support around him on the field to temper him. Instead they have made Warner vice-captain, who is older, hot-tempered and prove to overstepping the mark under pressure. Smith is being guided towards this end of his personality rather than counterbalanced with a calm, rational leader.

I can see how this happens in that team. The conversations are about reverse swing, SA's success with it, linked to Faf's history of tampering and how they need to do it to make it a level playing field. If they keep agreeing with each other then eventually it seems acceptable. But with a wise, calm, older and respected head on the team that conversation gets shut off before it gets anywhere near that point. If a young Michael Clarke (purely as a hypothetical) starts down that path then Hussey and Gilchrist quickly tell him to pull his head it, and the train of thought ends there.

I'm sure Smith could well have been a fine captain, but there's nobody in the team to tell him to stand up to him when required. The only senior players are Warner and SMarsh. Warner will egg him on and Marsh has never been a leader. As a result, Smith has had too much say, whether he's been right or wrong, and has never been able to learn how to lead properly. 

While Smith is ultimately responsible for the ball tampering, Cricket Australia has failed him badly. I hope that this sad day can be used as a catalyst for genuine culture change within the team for the betterment of Australian cricket.

Smith has been playing cricket his whole life and should know better. I find it hard to shift blame, but you are right that there needs to be a shift in the culture.

[Macca 17,035]

2 minutes ago, Bonkers said:

As a CEO what can you really say? He has to go through due process and then hand down findings. He basically said he wasn't happy about what happened and was shocked. He can't go and shoot from the hip, if he does that just makes the sutuation worse. I'm neither here nor there about his leadership but he's between a rock and a hard place on this one. Don't envy him being in this position.

Not asking him to 'Shoot from the hip'  ... he's just a beige CEO who never seems to say or do anything of any real substance.  A fence sitter. 

Smith has admitted guilt - the 'investigation' only really needs to find out who exactly was involved in the fiasco.  Sutherland spoke as if he was completely in the dark and he isn't.

He would have spoken to Smith but told us he hasn't spoken to him.  I don't believe him. 

The team has been a law unto itself under Sutherland's watch.

[Bonkers 994]

9 minutes ago, Macca said:

Not asking him to 'Shoot from the hip'  ... he's just a beige CEO who never seems to say or do anything of any real substance.  A fence sitter. 

Smith has admitted guilt - the 'investigation' only really needs to find out who exactly was involved in the fiasco.  Sutherland spoke as if he was completely in the dark and he isn't.

He would have spoken to Smith but told us he hasn't spoken to him.  I don't believe him. 

The team has been a law unto itself under Sutherland's watch.

You make some good points. Leadership and direction starts from the board and executive level. Things like this don't usually happen unless something else stinks in other parts of an organisation. 

Warner and Lehman I've never been particularly sold on as leadership figures. Those decisions to put these leaders in place have been endorsed by higher up. The thing is Cricket Australia just had a review a couple of years ago so it doesn't fill me with much hope that the right decisions will be made for the ongoing good of the game in Australia.

[dieter 3,325]

Re Motor Mouth/Champion Pugilist, Aussie Vice captain ( great moral leader ), Davie Warner, his bat needs to do the talking.

He averaged 63 in the Test Series against England, his average since - including T20's, One dayers and the series against South Africa has fallen to 37.9.

He's averaging 37 in the test series against the Proteas.

Shut up and make runs, you Bogan.

[Macca 17,035]

9 minutes ago, Bonkers said:

You make some good points. Leadership and direction starts from the board and executive level. Things like this don't usually happen unless something else stinks in other parts of an organisation. 

Warner and Lehman I've never been particularly sold on as leadership figures. Those decisions to put these leaders in place have been endorsed by higher up. The thing is Cricket Australia just had a review a couple of years ago so it doesn't fill me with much hope that the right decisions will be made for the ongoing good of the game in Australia.

Warner is a great example Bonkers - he should have been pulled into line a long time ago but instead of that,  he's often allowed to run amuck. 

There's a separation/disconnect between those who oversee the sport and the participants - proof of that was the long, drawn-out pay dispute that went on forever.

The team has underperformed for over a decade now - we're no longer a great team.  Yet the team often acts and  behaves as if it is a great one.

[Axis of Bob 11,855]

Warner's runs are totally irrelevant. If he's there to "shut up and make runs" then he shouldn't be VC. That's CA's mess.

The players and coaches need a strong blueprint for what the team should look like (culturally), provide support to the players to change and put in place people in key positions who live those values already. 

It's not a short term fix.

[dieter 3,325]

1 hour ago, Axis of Bob said:

Warner's runs are totally irrelevant. If he's there to "shut up and make runs" then he shouldn't be VC. That's CA's mess.

The players and coaches need a strong blueprint for what the team should look like (culturally), provide support to the players to change and put in place people in key positions who live those values already. 

It's not a short term fix.

So if your opening batsman is averaging 37 his runs are irrelevant?

Okay...

But I agree CA is a mess...

Edited March 25, 2018 by dieter

[picket fence 17,544]

5 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

Warner's runs are totally irrelevant. If he's there to "shut up and make runs" then he shouldn't be VC. That's CA's mess.

The players and coaches need a strong blueprint for what the team should look like (culturally), provide support to the players to change and put in place people in key positions who live those values already. 

It's not a short term fix.

Yep and if Cricket Australia had gonads depending on outcome Smith Lehman, Bancroft and anyone else in on it should be Banned for at least a year maybe two 

This is pathetic

As for Warner what a [censored] of  bloke he is 

[Macca 17,035]

An unprecedented move ... mid test and all. 

World reacts to Steve Smith’s decision to step down as captain in Cape Town

 

[TGR 1,367]

Can't believe the test is still going.

Australia has lectured the world in playing proper cricket.  Remember Murali and the no-ball saga?  Darrel Hair?  Hair wanted to make a name for himself.

Remember Stuart Broad?  Just stood his ground like a lot of Aussie cricketers (bar Gilly) has in the past.

David Warner and Australia have been pushing boundaries for years.  There comes a time when the bully meets a bigger bully.  South Africa 2018 has rattled them..  A leopard rarely changes his spots.

Just feel sorry for Bancroft who has been thrown under a bus.

 

Darren Lemon - should be his last national coaching gig this test match.  In it to his eyeballs.

 

Murali and Broad must feel 50 feet tall today.  And Darrel Hair?  Is he a free man or in the slammer at the moment?

[titan_uranus 25,045]

Quite an incredible thing to have happened.

The team has had a "win at all costs" attitude for a while now and something bad (not necessarily this bad, though) was always going to happen.

Possibly the most galling part about all this is Smith's reaction. He seemed to think that by fronting up to the media and apologising, that would make it all better. I suspect he genuinely thought at that press conference that it was something he could push behind him and people would forget about, hence his comment about not standing down (and the way he said it).

Smith's career is over, I can't see how he can come back from this - will anyone look at him the same, captain or not, again?

Warner breeds the "win at all costs" mentality and isn't any help to the side. Lyon, i think, is the same.

CA needs to properly work out who was involved. Any player who was involved should be stood down and, possibly, sacked/never selected again. Lehmann should resign before he gets sacked (if he knew, then he knew. If he didn't know, he should have). 

For the fourth Test, Smith, Bancroft and Warner mustn't play, nor should Starc, Hazlewood or Lyon unless it can be determined they had no role to play. Fly over replacements, put up a competitive and legal fight, then once it is all over a proper assessment needs to take place. New captain, new coach, new leadership model.

[Macca 17,035]

Here's a couple of podcasts about the ball tampering furore ...

BBC - 'Shocked and Stunned' ... Australia Wakes up to Ball Tampering Nightmare

Cricket Unfiltered (Oz) - Ball Tampering Crisis Special

[4_Kent_Watts 892]

3 hours ago, picket fence said:

Yep and if Cricket Australia had gonads depending on outcome Smith Lehman, Bancroft and anyone else in on it should be Banned for at least a year maybe two 

This is pathetic

As for Warner what a [censored] of  bloke he is 

Agreed minimum 2 year ban for cheating. No different to being a dope cheat.

[TGR 1,367]

When all is said and done, Lehmann is my bet as the mastermind.  Where is he?

 

This will not only end careers, it has the potential to end a life.   A few will be in a dark place for a long long time.