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12 minutes ago, 45HG said:

Marsh gone. 129 more needed with 5 wickets in hand is a big ask. Should be a gripping finish.

Or not! 3-2

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Great rearguard action! 9th wicket partnership of 4 from 106 - Nevill 0 off 54.

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How about some of the stats coming out of the Test:

  • Third biggest comeback this century (117 being the third lowest first innings score from a team who's gone on to win)
  • SL's second win over Australia ever
  • Worst performance by an Australian opener since Mark Taylor's pair in 1994 (Warner scoring 0 and 1)
  • Seven out of eight opening innings in the match were single digits (never has there been 8 out of 8 opening innings fail to make it to 10)
  • Nevill's was the third slowest innings ever, the partnership being the slowest partnership ever

End result is all too similar - lack of talent against quality spin. Also, Mitch Marsh is not the long-term option for us at 6, the top 5 isn't good enough for him to be batting at 6.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again.  The Australian cricket team need to start taking a horses for course approach to playing in the subcontinent.

I'm a big fan of Joe Burns, but he's not a great player of spin, especially on low slow wickets.  Compare that to say Shaun Marsh who's proved to be a very good player of spin but I never want to see play on Australian, South African or English wickets again.

Mitch Marsh is talented, but how many chances do you give a guy.  Meanwhile Marcus Stoinis made a century in the Australia A v South Africa A match.  He also bats at 3 for Victoria.

Plus we need to stop worrying about playing two specialist quicks over on those wickets.  There's a reason the Sr Lankan's, Indian's & Pakistani's always play three spinners, time we started doing it also. 

The sooner Stoinis & Fawad Ahmed are drafted into the squad the better.  Although I know it wont happen.

XI for the 2nd test should be;

Khawaja (promote to open)

Warner

Stoinis (Bats here for Victoria.  Also get him to open the bowling)

Smith*

Voges

S. Marsh

+Neville

Starc

Lyon

Holland

Ahmed

Starc & Stoinis to take the new ball & then an off spinner, leg spinner & left arm orthodox.  Warner is even capable of rolling bowling medium pace if you really want a first change bowler, but really isn't required over there.

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3 hours ago, AngryAtCasey said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  The Australian cricket team need to start taking a horses for course approach to playing in the subcontinent.

I'm a big fan of Joe Burns, but he's not a great player of spin, especially on low slow wickets.  Compare that to say Shaun Marsh who's proved to be a very good player of spin but I never want to see play on Australian, South African or English wickets again.

Mitch Marsh is talented, but how many chances do you give a guy.  Meanwhile Marcus Stoinis made a century in the Australia A v South Africa A match.  He also bats at 3 for Victoria.

Plus we need to stop worrying about playing two specialist quicks over on those wickets.  There's a reason the Sr Lankan's, Indian's & Pakistani's always play three spinners, time we started doing it also. 

The sooner Stoinis & Fawad Ahmed are drafted into the squad the better.  Although I know it wont happen.

XI for the 2nd test should be;

Khawaja (promote to open)

Warner

Stoinis (Bats here for Victoria.  Also get him to open the bowling)

Smith*

Voges

S. Marsh

+Neville

Starc

Lyon

Holland

Ahmed

Starc & Stoinis to take the new ball & then an off spinner, leg spinner & left arm orthodox.  Warner is even capable of rolling bowling medium pace if you really want a first change bowler, but really isn't required over there.

We could take it back further and promote spin bowling in this country (and seam bowling for that matter) ... the Sydney & Adelaide tracks were often spin-friendly historically and even the Melbourne wicket used to take more turn.  The Gabba was often a green-top and the Perth wicket used to be a lot more bouncy than it is now.  The Sydney wicket would often favour seam bowling early in a test much like the Gabba used to favour seam bowling, often for 4 or 5 days. 

Now all our tracks are very similar (especially in comparison to yesteryear)  ... so our batsmen and bowlers are not playing on enough variable wickets.  I'm not surprised that we struggle on sub-continent wickets at all.

The variance in our tracks was a reason why we've been the best performed tests teams ... we now struggle on spin-friendly tracks and when confronted with seaming conditions in England, we've also struggled of late.

Curators creating flat decks that last 5 days is not necessarily the fault of the curators though ... the ground trusts,  CA and TV all have a strong say in proceedings.

I agree with you on the 'horses for courses' idea 'TD' but it shouldn't have necessarily gotten to the stage where we need to use that option.  A good test batsmen should be able to bat in all conditions.

Edited by Macca
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Well after this disaster, one of the things that needs to happen, is they need to make a call on the Mitch Marsh at 6 & Nevill at 7 combo.

Both have now played between 15 - 20 tests and have a combined batting average of under 45. Our batting is too brittle as it is, we can't afford to carry both. They either need to back Marsh in and sacrifice the keeping quality a bit by recalling Wade to improve our batting, or they keep Nevill due to his clean keeping and they give an all rounder like Stoinis a go or recall Jo Burns and send Shaun Marsh back to the middle order. This would require both Smith & Warner bowling extra overs to make up for no all rounder.

Ontop of this, it may be time to call time on Adam Voges career and rebuild a bit. Bring in a younger batsman like Handscomb or Head and see if we can properly develop a young batsman. 

Edited by AngryAtCasey

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2 hours ago, AngryAtCasey said:

would also help if we stopped building batsman-friendly, homogenous drop-in pitches for australian grounds

with little variety in pitches it was always predictable we would struggle on "different" pitches whether in the sub-continent or elsewhere

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16 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

would also help if we stopped building batsman-friendly, homogenous drop-in pitches for australian grounds

with little variety in pitches it was always predictable we would struggle on "different" pitches whether in the sub-continent or elsewhere

100% agree DC. They need to get back to each of the grounds having their own unique traits.

Sydney & Adelaide used to turn sideways by days 4 & 5, the Melbourne pitch usef to die as the match went on and stay really low. Hobart was usually the flattest of the wickets, while Perth & Brisbane always had extra bounce and pace.

How they can get back to producing these types of wickets with drop in's I don't know? But it needs to be looked at.

The OX on radio the other day (tounge in cheek) suggested that they do away with the centre of excellence in Canberra and open up two campuses. One in Humpty Doo NT, to replicate the conditions of the subcontinent with dust pitches,  and one on King Island Tasmania to replicate the UK.

Edited by AngryAtCasey
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1 hour ago, AngryAtCasey said:

100% agree DC. They need to get back to each of the grounds having their own unique traits.

Sydney & Adelaide used to turn sideways by days 4 & 5, the Melbourne pitch usef to die as the match went on and stay really low. Hobart was usually the flattest of the wickets, while Perth & Brisbane always had extra bounce and pace.

How they can get back to producing these types of wickets with drop in's I don't know? But it needs to be looked at.

The OX on radio the other day (tounge in cheek) suggested that they do away with the centre of excellence in Canberra and open up two campuses. One in Humpty Doo NT, to replicate the conditions of the subcontinent with dust pitches,  and one on King Island Tasmania to replicate the UK.

another point is the lack of players playing 1st class cricket overseas when not on australian duty and getting experience on different conditions

this is brought about by the increase in australian fixtures with test, od and t20 filling up more of the calendar.

playing t20 overseas (e.g. india) doesn't really count as it is not 1st class cricket

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Boring, predictable and underwhelming are some of the words that come to mind when I look at the Australian Test Squad that was announced today.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-28/australia-names-bolter-joe-mennie-in-12-man-test-squad/7974820?pfmredir=sm

Although Mennie doesn't do much to excite me, I can understand his inclusion the issues with Pattinson, Cummins & Coulter-Nile. However I roll my eyes at a few other selections i must admit.

Peter Siddle's been a great servant, but it's time for the selectors to move on. Pick James Faulkner as a bowling all rounder or Chris Tremain to try and rough up some batsman and lets get some agro going. Sids line & length role is already covered by Hazlewood now.

Given we've fallen off our number 1 perch, is there really much point playing someone like Voges now? Really?  For goodness sake lets get a young middle order batsman in there to try and grow. Handscomb would be my pick, but Travis Head is an option also. But seriously Voges purpose has now been served.

And while on the topic of young batsman, we'd finally started playing one in Jo Burns who showed some decent formon our wickets, yet struggled in Asia. So much so that we've dropped him for Shaun Marsh who can only score runs in Asia and can't buy one in Australia. Pitty the tests he's replacing Burns for are in Australia!

And finally surely we've learnt by now that our 6/7 combination of Mitch Marsh/Nevill having a combined average with the bat of less then 45 isn't sustainable. Puts to much pressure on the top 5 as our tail starts at 6! We either need to go back to playing 6 specialist batsman or Matthew Wade has to keep and bat at 6 despite his keeping flaws.

Until these issues are tweaked, I can't see us winning a series for awhile.

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Decent start, although from 5/81 I think we'd be a little disappointed to have let them get to 242. Nonetheless, at 0/105 we clearly have the Test under our control, but our biggest weakness is middle order batting and there's not a lot after Smith at 4.

The Starc-Hazlewood new ball combination is starting to really gel together, IMO. I like the call to give Siddle the third spot too.

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The batting really is shallow. Warner and Marsh are in form but otherwise there's only Smith left, the other 8 of them are struggling.

The Mitch Marsh experiment is surely over. Cannot be that weak a batsman and bat at 6, regardless of bowling. We are continually going to lose if we can't put up big enough scores with the bat and numbers 3, 5 and 7 aren't strong enough to hold an awful number 6.

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Aussies have lost 6 for 22 this morning and it's about time heads rolled, they are a disgrace.

The same old players fail when the pressure is on, or not.

 

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1 hour ago, Dante said:

Aussies have lost 6 for 22 this morning and it's about time heads rolled, they are a disgrace.

The same old players fail when the pressure is on, or not.

 

.... can we start the footy season again?

I didn't think I'd say it, but I am questioning why we even play test cricket, the players all say it's the epitome of the game, and the purest version of the game, but they get paid more to be playing for franchises, it's less stressful on their bodies, and it's a bigger and better spectacle for the crowds.

surely those facts alone suggest that test cricket is dead... I have almost 0% interest in it these days.

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Another shameful performance.

Surely that has to be Voges' last test match. Funnily enough, if he happens to never play another test, he will finish with the second highest batting average of all time. Staggering.

Aside from Warner, Smith and maybe Khawaja, our batting depth is ludicrously thin. Ferguson had a shocking debut, but I'd still give him another go considering there isn't much else in the shed.

The bowling isn't terrible, but it seems that there are so many bowlers that are constantly rotated in and out of the team, which makes it nearly impossible for them to develop bowling partnerships and strategies.

It'll never happen, but I hope Cricket Australia invest in some youth and give some promising kids some games. They may get smashed around for a little while but they can't be much worse than what we currently have on the field.

Edited by Demon Jack
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On 10 November 2016 at 1:54 AM, steve_f said:


If Joe Mennie get three or more wickets, I will be astounded.  He wouldn't in the Shield.

Leading wicket taker, at a good average ,in last year's Sheffield Shield.

Deserved selection.

Should get another chance.

 

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I believe Doug Walters has been seen in the nets with Rod Marsh looking on! 

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10/86, then 10/85, now 8/32.

Batting lineup has to change.

The problem is 5, 6 and 7 are as weak as they have ever been. Voges must go. Nevill is in huge trouble. Ferguson wasn't the right answer to replace Marsh and now we either have to drop him after one game or persist with him when not in form. 

Need to pick two or three in-form Shield batsmen and stick with them. 

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Time for youth and some major changes amongst this squad,  We're in dire straights!

Poor old Burns & Ferguson had shockers.

Voges is done.

Neville just doesn't make enough runs.  I like him as a keeper, but he's averaging just over 20.  We need him to be averaging around 32 - 36.

Menie is in the same boat to Siddle.  He's not overly fast and doesn't swing the ball enough to justify picking someone who bowls at that pace.

Time for a bit of youth crossed with x factor, technique & aggro.

Mass changes for Adelaide.  OUT: Burns, Voges, Ferguson, Neville, Menie & Lyon

IN: Bancroft, Handscomb, Maxwell, Carters, Agar & Tremain

XI:

Bancroft (Young up and comer who bats with a good technique.  Has been on the radar for awhile and has made runs for Aus A on turning wickets while also growing up on the bouncy WACA wicket)

Warner

Khawaja

Smith

Handscomb (Young batsman who has been in very good form for Victoria the last 3 years now.  One of the best players on spin in the country and can bat anywhere in the top 6.  Also capable of putting on the gloves if need be)

Maxwell (X-Factor selection.  Guy can do it all, and with Nathan Lyon's poor form and Mitch Marsh not cutting it, he's more then worth a punt given his ability)

Carters (Good gloveman and a dour batsman who can bat for long periods of time.  Has opened the batting for NSW before, as well as bat down the order, so he knows how to face the new ball and the older one)

Agar (Time to give the left arm orthodox kid another go.  Good fielder, can bat and his bowling's on the improve.  Adelaide Oval seem a good venue to try two spinners.  Agar & Big Show)

Starc

Tremain (Another x-factor selection.  Tremain bowls at a lively pace and has been known to hit/hurt the batsman consistently with Victoria.  He would be a better foil for Starc & Hazlewood then Siddle & Menie have been.  Someone who can show some aggresion and worry the batsmen)

Hazlewood

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On 15/11/2016 at 4:08 PM, Jumping Jack Clennett said:

Leading wicket taker, at a good average ,in last year's Sheffield Shield.

Deserved selection.

Should get another chance.

 

Moved it around a bit but the 120's seems a bit slow. 

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