dpositive

Further to above and response te to BH You may be right that the leadership group is in control of Sydneys culture and if that is the desirable model we merely have to seek the advice of the Melbourne leadership group and we can establiish the culture of the club. Sorry I dont think its that easy. Even they might need some assistance in defining it

Sorry BH I appreciate that it is a difficult issue and have tried to get it but "Maxfield created the bloods culture" reinforces my point. The bloods was the epitomy of south melb culture which was never translated to sydney apparently until maxfield adopted it represented it and other players confirmed it. I doubt the current collingwood players would create a culture that is different from Eddieand the rest of Cwood managment coaches and supporters( Gosh even reporters and the general public have an idea of the collingwood culture. Maybe a single player can create a culture I doubt it thats all. Perhaps can create a culture for themselves as a leadership group can create a playing culture and yes that is important I was confusing that with the previous discussion about MFC culture. certainly the playing group, the leadership group of which will play a significant role in the expression of the culture as will the coach and you.

Again I apologise for being unable to respond in a definitive fashion to this very complex matter. Jolly says he was young and maybe missed the culture of Melb FC this says as much about the club as it does about Jolly. It may also say something about the current young players although from the various comments made I think people are saying the Jacks may be an inspired but long term choice. I still disagree with BH that the playing leadership group defines the culture, any more than the coach defines the culture rather they are all a part of the club and adopt confirm reflect or adapt a culture that goes beyond the play. I am not disagreeing with the many fine comments made and havent got the silver bullet answer but do think as stated previously that the more we discuss it the more clear it will become and the more likely we will all embrace it

The bit I dont agree with is in caps and could be said of Moloney The coach /es are not wasting time with any player That is their job. That is their time. I am certainly unaware of the reality of sylvias ability (he was highly rated and has be seen to play briefly at that level) Or the severity of his injury ( I have had debilitating back pain briefly and worked with people on rehabilitation programs who were restricted in being able to perform at their peak only briefly) or his off field antics (wether they help or hinder we have mainly seen the latter) or his leadership (he does seem to set an example on the feild and I have seen other players gather and support him) or even his ability to perform the role the coach wants (he may have been placed on the HFF to assess all oif the above) BUT I do hope that the coaches are giving their time to get the best out of Sylvia and all Melb players or giving them the time to understand that their (the players) time is up I also hope that this was the scenario with Brad who made the difficult decision himself as he has expressed it. The coach/es seem to have made some progress example most noticeably with Watts and there is certainly much more to be done I hope they use their time effectively Much of the comment on Dland even the vociferuosly negative can be used to inspire improvement lets hope that also continues so we definitely dont wate our time!

Certainly had a well known reputation and character. His reputation for developing kids was to my knowledge unsurpassed. Leaves an enviable and well deserved record. Condolences to those closest to him. All the best RIP

D32 given your insight in past have you got the same insight into this draft. Especially do you still follow U18 closely? I cant recall your comments on the Viney question mahbe you can add your thought on that as well. Nothing wrong with an "armchair expert" opinion and it may be rejected due to circumstances outside the chair but I do think the comments you made re other picks show a good bit of footy knowledge. Im happy to read more.

if you are right about being told then your metaphor may be correct. If he does have some currency then option 2 may well be his choice. Would hate to see that "talent" return against us.

Liked this until the definitive "He is gone" Given his age and obvious support here plus some of his endeavour with injuries 1 Tell him he has to run has to give second efforts tell him to chase. 2 Remind him that his attitude does affect veryone. He could be a leader Does he want to be? He could be with us or he may need to look elsewhere 1 is unconditional our choice 2 is his choice

both vi park and windy hill could be fearsome My mate injured his leg and refused to go on crutches to WH as he insisted the "fans" would kick his crutches out We went every week to every match plus some

"Failure tend to breed more failure, until you pick yourselves up by the scruffs of your neck and pull yourself out of it". CC that is a very powerful statement and IMO very apt. It could also be considered with the statement from JC "Schwarz is more than entitled to his opinion & should be commended for the way he has turned his life around" an endorsement that Schwarz could now provide the very real "legacy of professionalism, dedication to club & cause" as an example to the next generation and overcome perhaps the previous "legacy of getting on the [censored], the punt, hanging out with gangland figures & introducing that lifestyle to young, impressionable team mates".

Didnt read it like that at all Yes they did make them like that tm was merely saying that is the type of skill style and attitude that the next generation of recruit needs as ingredients to be made into the package??? Its sure not a bad place to start I Think???

With all the reference to turnover, just a query as it seems to be related to disposal I can recall saying when watching GLyon one day that a champion can make a mark or contest out of a poor disposal, (he received plenty of poor delivery) I watched the champions a little more closely and you can see that this happens Perhaps its what makes Mitch so good he gets to the contest and while in a different context its what makes Watts a bit special better skilled players can get the ball irrespective of where or how it comes as thats where their effort is directed As they become recognised by their team mates their disposal improves as their teammates knows they will get it and where they intend to give it? Any thoughts?

I thought Sellar did enough useful things yesterday and has performed a role all year This makes Bate and Moloney noticeable due to the lack of useful things done I dont see many games or patches so may be unaware but I am sure the coaching team are noting contribution carefully. McKenzie tackling creqates pressure which often allows somone else to use it with intent.

I did get some feelings of relief that we werent blown away in the last that there were many instances of good play to match the shockers there were signs of improvement from what was hardly our best side (injuries) that the season is ending and we can look forward to solid training repoorts from a squad that will get older and bigger BUT I also noticed that there is a real difference in our game against watching the other broadcasts games Our players do see lighter and less able to break tackles and make tackles Also our players were more stop start rather than flowing in any phase of the game . even the little hanpss gives were often to a static player rather than somone moving and we never seem to kick the ball in front of a moving player for them to run on to. This may be a matter of confidence and maybe a matter of fitness so I am hoping to see major improvement for next season All good I reckon GO DEES

I find the use of FA a useful intellectual journey would you get a FA for FA or perhaps pay FA for a FA Are all FA's FA are any FA's FA Dont need any assistance with this conundrum can enjoy the self analysis or delusion.

Very interesting thread with the occaisonal outbreak of personal invective due to frustration. Again I have run out of likes Its probably all reflective of following the dees but as an involved observer I dont really see the need to refer to someone with a different perspective or interpretation (even if it is wrong) as a Nuffie, idiot, stupid etc usually it is pretty obvious and the impact of the point is diminished with the outburst. BUT there obviously is some disagreement but I prefer the many more points of agreement within the arguments and there has been some interesting detail revealed. I didnt realise MM let go 13 didnt think you could make that drastic a change to a list so there may be some greater scope for change than I had imagined. While it may be unfortunate to see that many go there is no doubt something has to give . The appointmeny of Neeld was only the begginning. I have said before that I dont see Neeld as the only factor in culture change and we may not even need a total culture change. I have been re-reading some of MArtin Flannigans articles on the club Hes got to be one if the best journo/ authors around and I think he has identified many of the aspects of culture that are good and great about MFC Certainly debate and issue raising will help identify the change and confirm what we need to embrace. I think undoubtably the major factor which Neeld does have direct responsibility for is that we need to win (I am also sure that the culture of the club is not that we lose all the time) we have had our share of defeat it is now time to win The players need to know that and when that part of the culture is restored we can see how we measure against some of the other features of our culture. Sorry to take up so much time and space with my inane ramblings but I have been inspired by the richness of the debate.

Given the eclectic mix of this site thought I,d throw in a snippet Bloke in town who have had many conversations with about many matters but not footy saw me in my car today and noticed my Demons scarf (I know tragic isnt it??) Says "follow the dees do you" yes "I played 7 games with em" says Barry Hodges "Billy Barrott was taken off me in myonly memorable game" Didnt have the physiology capacity to make it at league level but did move to Port lincoln Same colours as DEES and made the team of the century there. Is now in Beechworth and gauranteed some more refined discussions on the higher order intellectual matters such as wether moloney should be traded or spencer perservered with OR maybe Ill just continue the existing friendship and discuss matters usely contained on this thread such as race results olympics etc?

Must have a good mid field pumping him up???

All the best to Brad Ran out of likes as Dlanders remind us of the great things this club can do Hope Brad can retain his strong links with the club It would be interesting to see his opinions expressed on Dland Should we offer him membership for an interesting perspective?

YDE i think you might have too much time on your hands if your listening that closely to Shannon Noll. I would reckon there are many songs that could be applied to MFC particulary Blues related but I have rarely followed the lyrics of one song that closely so I do admire your thoroughness. And I do like your creativeness and enthusiasm (passion) for the DEES That song should also inspire Neeld with the level of support you display BUT I also would worry that you may see Neeld as the sole factor for success. It is the Melbourne club, the team of coaches, the team of players, the team of supporters who will together participate in the success. While its true he may be and must be a major factor it will only happen when we are all able to contribute what we have. If you still have time you could look for some similar inspiration for other players Maybe starting at Morton Spencer sylvia and Moloney etc those who are more under attack on Dland than others. I am sure they and we all could be inspired by songs of support. Keep the passion. GODEES

Perhaps Wallsy will now say that Melb are that hopeless that they cant tank properly OH who cares

Not sure youll get much support from Freak with this analysis but it sure shows some consideration Thanks

BH I did like your post coz there is some truth in it What you are largely refferring to is the playing culture and you are correct with all the examples you give, Was that playing culture an identified part of the club culture? was it desirable that players achieved in spite of the coach? (perhaps if achievement was part of the club culture) I think you might be underestimating the president the tealady and the supporters of Brisbane perhaps they all wanted that success and recognition so badly that it infused the team of players Are the three leaders now going to be overridden by their players leadership group culture? Can they or should they impose their culture over an existing culture? It is what makes it so difficult and Im not even sure there is a logic to it but rather than try and impose my will I will continue to try and monitor the culture of this club and as i Said hope that someone can collate the valid expressionns of Dland perhaps we just might find a Dland culture Perhaps we might find that the dland supporters culture reflects all supporters the members and is embraced by thepresident and the tea lady the coach the leadership groupand the players I just hope that we are all in accord and that there is not conflict between any "cultures".

I also wonder with disposal and decision making, how much is dependent upon teammates. Watts always seemed to get caught as his first instinctive reaction often wasnt matched by the alertness or expectation of those around him. As they all learnt to work with what they had there was a marked improvement in his disposal. Not surte and havent seen enough of the play but is McDonald disposing poorly because his teammates arnet ready for him to get it and/or dispose of it to them?

Just a thought on Injuries I could just be ducking for cover on the culture research Could it be that injuries are an outcome of how the game is played YES obviously BUT Do teams that receive more protection from the umpires reflected from the awarding of free kicks have a better injury rate than than those receiving less free kicks. If you play tackle or are tackled poorly does this produce injuries or are there more injuries occurring because of overextension etc. Perhaps our high injury count is because our younger smaller less developed body types are being smashed by older larger better developed body types. Can improved umpire protection restrict some injuries? It may require access to obscure statistics (where is stan from stradbroke when you need him)