dpositive

I read the report of Lions circling Martin and thought that for the reasons indicated he would be a good selection for the Dees at pick 4 Has the engine to run with Viney all day and supply him the ball Seriously I hope that Neeld and co know what they are doing. I have been impressed with everything post season so far. Waiting to see how the action taken reflects on training and performance on the field. I still reckon we need a diverse squad of players with different styles to have flexible structures variable against opponents skills and structures. We can do it GO DEES

Cook was never selected at senior level and may have responded differently had he done so It is difficult to make comment as to horses and water without knowing the challenges and roles that he was given. These are really all boys and do need some fairly flexible and considered coaching training support Hopefully Hogan is given, receives and applies good advisce as he develops. Is again perhaps more a testament to the clubs ability to develop than its ability to select although in a functioning club the two are hand in hand

From my memory and observance at the time White was also killed by the structures that were in place as he worked very hard down the centre of the ground often providing an ignored option as the team attacked from the flanks and pockets. I dont think he owed the club anything when he left as others have indicated he did have a pretty good record, I also think the Jolly White combination was not used all that well and see the same with Martin and Jamar They are different types of players and should be used only as the opposition and strategy dictates. More options for play mean you may need a freewheeling run all day ruck man to create a tall option and gather possession around the ground and another day you want a more static congestion tap option Maybe you need both or maybe you need one or the other Surely its good to have some variety in the list.

Just a comment Why do many consider Howe more for midfield when his jumping marking soaring ability could provide a point of difference to an attack and give real difficulty for opposition back men. Provides opportunity for crumbers if he is negated.Deep in the forward line Howe can really be effective within the right structure and provide a different option, especially for the basic long kick to the square. With Clarke Dawes/etc as the bulky contested space maker Howe could be the decoy. With Watts as a mobile wing flank(back or forward) with good decision and delivery skills he could deliver to the best option

Bananas @$1.99 here could Moloneys indicated move to the Lions impact on the balance of trade from the banana republic Is there likely to be wholesale market (of the fruit variety) movement to cater for the economic shifts arising from the move. The Banana led recovery could be in full swing assisted by recipes such as the above to be included in the series of AFL endorsed magazines devoted to diet and performance enhancing natural substances. Leveraging off the controversy of Lance Armstrong ("the king of doping") AFL sees that they can engage with a new demographic to spread their reach. MFC is well positioned with an array of under developed body types to promote the potential and future of such aides. Can MFC benefit from this exposure as Morton Cook etc bulk up or move out! opps sorry Got a bit carried away and distracted even myself Banana excitement can do that!!!!

Thanks DL7 It was the reference I thought he made to WA coaches and the eagle misled me I did really jump to wrong conclusion the rest applies he does present really well and appears a good selection

Too easy Show them they are wrong! We are on the way GO DEES!!!!!

He does present pretty well. Mature attitude with a pretty well focused plan Not so concerned with the Bryce Gibbs alignment. Would fit into the largest Greek city outside Greece but reckon he might like the West Coast connection and could end up back there.

I think Maurie might have the best idea for future appraisal while Tall defence is contributing from a much more viable position than anything I could say.

Think I totally agree with you Nasher would add that I did like the view of Lundgren as a response to the question and may add a personal insight to "highly paid staff"(!) to assist them in their deliberations There are already a number of expressions that show some people do put a lot of time into the ratings. But how accurate they are is also as you stated.

Well What a pity DEejammin and Dr John have finally engaged in some real indepth and I reckon valuable analysis of "the culture thing" and they both make some excellent points If I could figure out how to collect and store these insights in a single thread with other mentions of culture I think we would have something valuable in allowing us to identify the culture that our club can take forward to success. I do know that when I have tried to obtain a more significant response from others who insist that the culture is "set' or "determined" by the players or in some cases the leadership group I have not received any such useful detail. It is a complex issue and it is difficult to coherently and comprehensively describe ,but I am becoming more confident that we are at least thinking a little more deeply about it and may be able to offer something more valuable to the club. I would at least hope that the club is undertaking a similar process to provide us all with a culture that we can recognise and proudly associate with and will be confidently expressed when we are basking in our assured success Oopps maybe tooo far But really do enjoy your thoughts back to the trade and draft diversion.

I did express on Martin thread that Dawes was "collingwood hasbeen" That may have been a bit harsh but he is certainly not their choice of preffered talent so presumably they know something. I was not aware that Dawes is only 24 and that adds an intriguing element to both his development and future. I also said that Neeld probably knows more of his capabilities than most so I will be guided by and support his judgement.

Im not beating the club up. We must know more about him than anyone else Mick included and probably know more of him than some untried draft pick. Its why I would support the club if we go Dawes (I'm not really convinced by a collingwood hasbeen but Neeld would know more about him than most so I would be satisfied.) I do think we need to display our professional approach to maybe getting the most out of the abilities and capacities we have and as others have noted with the swans assigning roles to match those abilities. I think there is much Martin can provide esp as an insurance policy which he has provided when Jamar went down. He can ruck alone and can provide an alternative structure against some sides when Jamar etc need some recovery. As I said I would hate to see him used against us by another club who was able to get more from him than we can as that only exhibits a deeper weakness in our club. I would hope again as said earlier that Neeld takes it as an incentive that others (particularly MM) see a potential in him and gets an even greater output to build on our already significant development investment.

Wasnt meant to be too critical coz I think I agree totally with you I would prefer that he did well at our more professional club.

Thanks Dland Makes you realise the selection process is as much Art as science. I guess its not just the attributes but how you use them that is the most significant and thats why I appreciate the time and effort put into following the individuals and even more importantly the conversations that occur with the kids and their support. Its where the passionate Dland contributors really can provide some great insight and assistance into developing the team. Go DEES

WHOOPS meant "I too feel frustrated" etc carry on

Being poorly mismanaged may have been the problem. I think is better than being poorly managed and well mismanaged?? May have been been better if managed well but Not sure how his development was affected by this. A too feel frustrated for and by him. Should we let him go on and become another Darren Jolly used effectively by the Swans and the PIes?? or could we review our "culture" and make him aware of what is required to be part of a successful team/

Cale represents the challenge that is within the club. The challenge for Cale to develop the aspects of play that the coach requires and the challenge of the coaching staff to utilise the attributes that Cale has to gain the most effective results. Cale like most of the list needs to take that improvement path to get the victories that are needed. They need the self belief and the belief in their teammates to start to beat other players and other sides. They need to follow a strategy that exploits their strengths and the weaknesses of their opponents and they need to impose themselves on the contest as required and exhaust themselves in their efforts. I'm sure its all a little "motherhood" but we saw the beginning with Cale I look forward to the continuance.

Excellent post DJ One of the best I have seen to both acknowledge the chicken and egg nature of the culture word. I would add that Carey Ablett etc are all part of the football culture and probably significant references within their own club cultures. And all possess some of those ephemeral features of the Australian western culture that DL was referring to. I suppose the nature of culture also is that while it is a keystone it is also flexible. But I will still maintain and supported by your points that the players determine and are determined by the Culture. As your examples attest did Carey etc determine or respond to the culture of their team? was their part in that culture successful ? Gosh too much for my addled brain Think I'll go back and read your thoughts again it is all entertainment!

Not just a crying shame but almost negligence. Watts and others are just the project that Neeld was appointed to manage. He has been given resources and he must now apply them to achieve the results required. I am not knocking Neeld at all but supporting him to achieve . I think this rumour has been shown to be false but I reckon if ever Neeld needed some incentive to get Watts to achieve it would be the implied suggestion that MM could. It does remain to be seen how JW and many other players progress/develop/improve this season. I am certainly looking forward to the many levels of rumour and fact that may be used to propel improvement. Hopefully this extends from the media and Dland through to the club and the players. Keep up the passion GO DEES!!!!

Sorry That was my point but perhaps inelegantly put. Brent was also a conundrum slighlty built but solid muscle. Had the same laconic style at times and brilliant. I enjoyed watching him and enjoyed watching the despair he caused Barassi and supporters at times. So EVEN if Watts only becomes Crosswell and not a Brownlow medal team of century gut busting power forward I would be more than happy. He continues to develop and shows some sublime moments. Hope he can play in some premiership sides with us.

Watts is still the conundrum He certainly has the skills displayed with almost laconic style. He is certainly deemed soft even despite his contested possession count. He does take marks and often contested but reads the play and avoids many contests. He does tackle but seems better employed receiving and delivering than being taken out of the play by tackling someone who gives off the ball. Perhaps he could crash packs and take out a couple of players but he then might just injure himself and be out for the majority of the season. I wish I could see a photo of him with muscle definition like Jones but while his body is developing and growing I will be content that the coach is getting the output required. It may be that Watts could model himself on Riewaldt (same physicality) rather than Buddy but both of these players also have their limitations and flaws. So I guess we just watch his progress and hope he forms part of the next Demon premiership side. Oh he may be Tom Hawkins or Adam Goodes but even if he is Brent Croswell as long as he wears that medal for Melbourne I will be happy.

The players are the cutting edge, the visible display point of the culture. They may set (determine) the culture if allowed by all other members of the community. The culture that the players exhibited around 186 was deemed not acceptable. We may have erred in not defining, describing, the culture we demand. The club does with its appointment, endorsement of Neeld seem to be defining the culture it is establishing as it does with its Blazers. I have posted before that the culture probably has been identified by the club administrators (it may be an advantage to have it more clearly and often displayed) and is flowing through to the players, the supporters probably need to see some success to also embrace that culture. Once we have all "bought in" it will seem odd that we could not recognise it so easily. I would like to see the culture that the current players of Melbourne determine. It will be interesting how closely it resembles the many other club cultures or the culture that MFC players displayed during the halcyon years. Perhaps we may all accept it. I do despair that a culture could be determined by a disparate group of 20 odd year olds with limited exposure to the diversity and depth of life experiences. I hope they are well guided . I would hope that your views on the culture that we require are considered as much as the players.

What Fun If only we could devote as much time into actually winning by analysing the talent and capabilities of our own players and how to support them to produce an effort that would increase their value and the teams results and the clubs position so that we could become a club that players wanted to come to and stay at just like Buddy. Or something???????

Absolutely agree with this. It certainly appears he wants to be with us and we have begun the development. He seems to understand it wont be handed to him on a plate. Wants to and does work hard and achieve. I would be accusing GC of tampering if they force us to go 3 but I'd still take him.