drdrake

Compare him to Fyfe or Mundy last night they just control the football, don't fumble, don't burst from a centre clearance and absolutely shank it, that seems to happen a bit to Oliver.

I agree we are stuck with Goodwin for at least another year, we need to get good assistance around him. Seems Goodwin doesn't work that well with assistant coached we had a good line up, in 2018 most of them have gone. Get Neitz as our forward coach, we need someone to take Weiderman and Jackson under their wing to teach them how to be a key forward.

Just hope the WCE don't come knocking they will be on the hunt to replace Hurn and Jetta, Rivers would slot nicely onto their half back line

and the bloke he played on I reckon had 2 one in the last minute.

I think next year we will have Rivers and Jackson on this list. Don't forget we had a couple of years prior to last that we didn't have a first round pick. We just don't have any team structures, our mids don't play for each other. Still think we are a couple of mids and another tall forward away. Shows the level of skill in our side, a 7 game first year player Rivers was chartered with our point kick ins.

He just trys to kick the ball to hard, last night was the worse display of kicking we have seen from him.

We brought in small forwards to be front and square but we never but the ball to a dangerous spot in our forward line. We allowed the Dockers to take 40 odd more uncontested marks in the rain in the first half. We went in with a massive defensive plan the same that we played against St Kilda, basically we pushed 18 players into our defensive half. Dockers held their back six across the middle and controlled the ball. Plain and simple this one is one the coaches, we went in with the wrong plan. We fumble, over possess the ball and didn't even look like changing direction. Kick down the line every single time. Lucky we don't play Adelaide again they would beat us now. A team with no direction or confidence.

Gawn and Oliver were terrible for 3 qtrs Fritsch Viney Rivers Petracca Langdon Tomlinson

Garry is right, we aren't a team, we dont do the team thinks

Quality v unskilled grunt

We wont win another game this year

Skills

We look beaten, look in the eyes of the players we are done

They had their midfield out nicnat, shuey and there most important player Yeo, plus Hurn different result if those 4 are playing

When is the AFL going to clamp down on the bulldog shuffle, they get tackled and they shuffle the ball to their favour, it is incorrect disposal, just because you are tackled doesn't mean you can just drop the ball to your teams advantage. They have done this since there gf year Richmond adopted it but not as bad

Could Lockhart and Bennell not getting games be a salary cap issue, rookies low base high match fee

Suits game plan, if we are bombing long we need the forward pressure to keep it in there. Pickett, Bedford, Hunt front and square pressure to keep the inside forward 50m. We look balanced except for second tall forward that Preuss fills, the mix is a lot better

Fresh faces, speed about time

When you are talking culture and DNA of the club, this isn't a year by year thing it is who you are. 2018 was an opportunity to build into a period of sustained success, the facts are like we have for the past 60 years we fall back to losing. Winning is hard no question, to be a winning side over a long period is extremely hard. I will guarantee you Hawthorn won't be down the bottom half of the ladder for long, they will not accept this and put the right measures in place to fix. Good clubs don't accept losing, we do, winning is a celebration it isn't the norm, 2018 should have been the fire to ignite 2019 losing the way we did and almost getting there, 2019 should not have happened the way it did. The fact is our club sits back listens to everyone on how good we are and then we just go back to the norm which is taking the easy option of losing. We had a period of Jackson and Roos, we could feel the club was changing, strong leaders. The Pert appointment was an issue at the time, from what we read Jackson wasn't onboard with this call. Would love to have a dinner with Jackson to get his honest opinion on our club.

If it was a once off you can look for excuses but it is reoccurring. The swans just put in standard blue print to beat the dees, Sit back and wait for long bomb or turnover then attack from there.

I have been on Demon fan forums for nearly 20 years, I'm sure if I went through my posts after losses like last night it will be a pretty consistence theme 1) Club Culture: we accept defeat and over celebrate wins as we don't go into games expecting to win. It is easy for the club to loss as winning is hard. This is culture and for some reason no coach or administration over the past 60 years has been able to change this. We have shown glimpses over that period that we are on the right path to change this but then the losing culture is to strong and creeps back in. 2) Mindset: ties in with point 1 but work rate is a mindset, you need to be prepared to work hard to win games. We have to many examples that we just don't want to work hard enough. A player can control this, it is one of the things you can control in a game how hard you work. The ball might not bounce your way, you can't control that but working hard gives you a better chance to get involved in the game 3) Skills: there is something seriously wrong with our club. From an extended period of time we have been the worse skilled side in the competition. I know someone will bring up the AFL disposal stats that show we aren't but we are the ability to do the fundamentals of the game is an ongoing concern, especially when it matters, example Gawn and Langdon missing 2 goals 15ms out basically directly in front. 4) Development: Outside Petracca, who from our core group from 2018 has improved, excluding players we have drafted and traded in including Lever, not many in fact most have gone backwards TMac, Brayshaw, Harmes, Viney, Spargo, Melksham, Jetta, Jones, Salem, Gawn, OMac, Hannan. Then you add in the draft picks, no one from 2018 draft has been able to cement a spot, the 2019 crop look good but will wait and see what improvement they will get over the summer. 2/3/4 the coaches and players can control, point one is the entire club it needs to be ruthless from the top person down. points 2/3/4 are non negotiable start with that and it goes a long way to changing the culture.

WCE have the best Midfield in the AFL, NIc Nat, Shuey, Gaff, Yeo, Kelly, Redden and others great balance outside Gaff who is a pure outside mid the rest can play in close and get to the outside, a ruck that hits to advantage and mids take advantage off it. Ours just don't seem to be able to transition to the outside the ball stays contested or in the congestion of the contest.

It all starts from them, if we can't control the ball in the middle we have no chance of winning games. You are right on fringe players but the issue is we have no depth in the midfield so if these guys have off days we don't have options to go in there. If we can't win the midfield battle our positional players will have limited chances to impact the game. The bottom line is until we can get better in the middle, improve our forward 50m entries we will continue to put up results like this. Starts with Gawn/Oliver/Brayshaw/Petracca/Viney they got to get better ball into our forward 50

Bull, they are stars because they are unbelievable consistent players. They impact games and can turn the flow of a game. Tracc has the potential to do this but needs to do it consistantly. They make the players around them better.

The only stars in that list Danger, Bont, Martin. Don't get me wrong a lot of good players on there but Stars win matches and turn games over a number of seasons.