Best team on the park

[Al`s DEMONS 0]

I cannot see Yze hurting the opposition as anything other than a winger.

Up forward his lack of contest and lack of defensive pressure costs on the rebound. Down back his lack of defensive presence/attitude will cost soft goals.

His one remaining weapon is playing wide, getting in space and then hurting the opposition with his disposal. Surely he is not in our first three small forwards at this stage of his career????

Not in my starting line up obviously.

when he was finally dropped he responded with a heap of touches but more importantly 6-7 tackles. against weaker opposition granted but DB may be the kick up the arse he needed. considering hes done jack all for a while he should be able to put in a big year. there are no excuses. come round 7 if its still the same old get rid off him

[occo 2]

For me:

B: Whelan Carroll Frawley

HB: Bell Rivers Bruce

C: Green McLean Pettard

HF: Sylvia Dunn Bate

F: Davey Neitz Robbo

R: White McDonnald Jones

I.C: Meeson, Newton, Moloney, Bartram

Emm: Wheatley, Miller, Yze

[gOLLy 401]

Amazing how many leave out Wheatley

[Al`s DEMONS 0]

Amazing how many leave out Wheatley

if Yze is out of form Wheatley would come into my side on the HHF. his instructions would be to play between the two 50`s ideally being an extra mid. whose sole purpose is to receive ball when coming out of defence and kick the living daylights out of it not allowing teams to flood back. we need to play three talls and Robbo and the Flash. try and stretch the defence as the Saints will do this year

[deanox 9,989]

Why do so many think Wheatley is going to suddenly become a player that has earnt his spot? He plays 2 or 3 decent games each year and you hear he has finally made it.

...

Paul Wheatley doesnt effect any pressure at all. Skill alone is not enough...

i think you have supported my argument to have him on a wing rather than in the backline. he is better when running forward and using his kicking skills to our advantage. he is not strong enough over head, or defensively to play in the backline. thus the 2 or 3 times a year he gets a full run in the middle tend to be the times when we see him play well, and hit blokes on the chest in the forward 50. let him run and kick, and outside version of moloney in some ways. make him compete for that position, but i agree he shouldnt be selected as a defender.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Why? I have only so far heard words. If we're 2 - 8, or 0 - 9 again, and Yze is widely blamed or criticised, or even scapegoated for our losses like he was last year, I'm sure Bailey would feel the pressure and may, as a new coach, wish to drop him. He's all bluster so far, and unlike many others I will judge him on his actions and results alone.

That said... again... I hope your confidence is rewarded, and I admire your positivity.

From what I have read and heard about Bailey is that he is a different coach to ND. I think that is needed. ND was poor in developing leadership and establishing a hard culture amongest the players. DB has been around a whiile in the coaching game and I am sure he will improve on ND in that area. How couldnt he? Al though I do have questions about the leadership choices.

As a an all up coach, thec proof is on the W-L ratio when the big season starts. I agree there has been a beautification of DB by posters here beyond his performance. No fault of DB, I just hope those gushing posters are there if start badly to the season and we are 0 and 4.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

if Yze is out of form Wheatley would come into my side on the HHF. his instructions would be to play between the two 50`s ideally being an extra mid. whose sole purpose is to receive ball when coming out of defence and kick the living daylights out of it not allowing teams to flood back. we need to play three talls and Robbo and the Flash. try and stretch the defence as the Saints will do this year

Early last season he played a couple of games at Sandy playing this exact role. At the time he was a long way from fit, and had only just returned, and even with low confidence and being a bit doughy, he MONSTERED the games I watched... one in particular more than the others. I wonder though, if he was so good at this role, howcome he hasn't played it in the past? Was it just ND's decision? Or was there games where he played this role and wasn't damaging enough?

I'd like to see him play like this, but there is some stiff competition for the guy. Bruce, Bate, Sylvia, Dunn, Green etc etc...

From what I have read and heard about Bailey is that he is a different coach to ND. I think that is needed. ND was poor in developing leadership and establishing a hard culture amongest the players.

I think in the grand scheme of things, in the coming years this will be seen as his greatest downfall as a coach.

DB has been around a whiile in the coaching game and I am sure he will improve on ND in that area. How couldnt he? Al though I do have questions about the leadership choices.

It seems he already has. He's got the team united on the training track, which I'm certain couldn't have been as easy as it looked, given the fact that many of them were coached by Neale for a decade.

As a an all up coach, thec proof is on the W-L ratio when the big season starts. I agree there has been a beautification of DB by posters here beyond his performance. No fault of DB, I just hope those gushing posters are there if start badly to the season and we are 0 and 4.

Me too. I'm behind him because he's our coach... but there is much work to be done here just yet, and just as with Neale, I imagine, on demonland at least, that he'll be judged as much on his faults as on his strengths.

[Rogue 585]

As most of the comments indicate, if we're picking a 'best 22' I don't think we can deviate too much from the one presented by MFC4Life. I guess it reflects the inexperienced 'depth' that Fan highlighted in a recent thread.

if Yze is out of form Wheatley would come into my side on the HHF. his instructions would be to play between the two 50`s ideally being an extra mid. whose sole purpose is to receive ball when coming out of defence and kick the living daylights out of it not allowing teams to flood back. we need to play three talls and Robbo and the Flash. try and stretch the defence as the Saints will do this year

I'd stick Wheatley on the wing. He has decent defensive skills, and that should see him able to look after an opponent when the opposition has the ball. When we have the ball we can use his penetrating boot to set up attacks, and his height should see him as a marking option coming out of defence.

[bjgc 0]

Picking the best team is a week by week thing and I'm sure my best team will change after the NAB Cup.

B: RIVERS, CARROLL, WHEATLEY

HB: BELL, HOLLAND, WHELAN

C: BRUCE, JONES, GREEN

HF: BATE, MILLER, DAVEY

F: ROBERTSON, NEITZ, NEWTON

FOLL: WHITE, MCLEAN, MCDONALD

IC: YZE, SYLVIA, DUNN, MEESON

EMERG: FRAWLEY, MORTON, MOLONEY

Rivers has been out for a long time now and I think it will take him time before he is considered for the key post.

Pettard and Bartram will have to prove their fitness again to get back in the team and I will wait and see how Moloney goes in the NAB Cup before I decide if he deserves a spot in the team.

Yze and Miller get 1 more chance due to the club's crazy decision to make them leaders.

[Guest MFC4Life]

From what I have read and heard about Bailey is that he is a different coach to ND. I think that is needed. ND was poor in developing leadership and establishing a hard culture amongest the players. DB has been around a whiile in the coaching game and I am sure he will improve on ND in that area. How couldnt he? Al though I do have questions about the leadership choices.

The leadership choices were made by the players. Do you really think DB would have the gaul to say "you, you and you" are leaders of this club after only being there for a few months? The players spoke which is the only relevant issue insofar as the leadership is concerned.

[Guest MFC4Life]

1. It will be a real achievement for Bailey to do this when it should be the player that is responsible and accountable for those actions. DD is right about old dogs and new tricks. Last year when Yze tried to do this he now lacks the pace to chase and cant make a tackle stick.

2.Why could Yze not chase and put defensive pressure on his opponents in the past five years? Why would Yze avoid the contested ball so often? That's right it was the previous Coach.

3. If anyone got a free ride under Daniher...it was Yze. Yze did not repay the faith put in him.

4. If DD is right and Yze plays at least half the games this year, I hope it is on Bailey's strict terms not on the front running terms he exhibited in recent years. I am confident Bailey will enforce team rules alot better than his predecessor.

1.Yze is accountable but some men need to be inspired.

2. Agreed, I've already suggested the notion that he has lost his way over the past few years.

3.If Yze was picked in the 22 as if he would say no. Just becasue he was selected does not mean Yze didn't give a &*%# and didn't try. As I have stated on numerous occasions I watched a terribly jaded and physically injured individual saunter around the paddock last year as we lost the first 9 games without a wimper.

4. I am excited about Yze. He has the tools and the talent. Bailey would have zapped him with a high volt taser and said if you don't sit up straight and fly right, you're gone! Why would he be in the leadership group otherwise?

[Guest MFC4Life]

Glass is a better player than Carroll, but I reckon even he would have struggled if he played in the red and blue in Nathan's place last year.

I'm sorry... I would have given up our 1st pick in the draft for Glass and then some. Glass is exactly the player we have simply never had. Danny Hughes and Sean Wight circa 1987 (by the way watch the 1987 Elimination Final against North Melbourne to watch one of the greatest Full Back performances of all time courtesy of one Sean Wight) come close but he is simply what we need times 10. Carroll has neither the skill, composure, acceleration, strength, speed or defensive pressure that Glass does.

Glass would not have struggled in the red and blue, actually I would argue that we would have won three or four more games had he played.

[Paul Gardner 6]

FB: Rivers Carroll Whelan

HB: Green Miller Bell

Ctr: Petterd McLean Moloney

HF: Robertson Bate Davey

FF: Newton Neitz Sylvia

Rov: White McDonald Jones

Interchange: Meesen Yze Bruce Dunn

Emergency: Bode Bartram Wheatley

This lineup still looks a bit soft to me but will have to do till Grimes / Cheney / & McNamara push up.

[Freak 100]

FB: Wheatley Carroll Whelan

HB: Bruce Rivers Bell

Ctr: Petterd McLean Moloney

HF: Robertson Newton Davey

FF: Yze Neitz Green

Rov: White McDonald Jones

Interchange: Meesen Bate Dunn Sylvia

[mo64 5,881]

Like who? You mean Pavlich/Brown? When was the last time a former rookie stopped either of them? Carroll is certainly capable of stopping them. He's stopped MANY of these better forwards. I'm going to go ahead and assume you're referring to his 2007 in which he had NO help. His 2006 was impressive to say the least.

Ben Rutten. And whether a player is drafted no. 1 or comes off the rookie list is irrelevant when debating whether he is capable of playing a position.

As for Carroll, he doesn't rate in the best dozen fullbacks in the comp, and I'm pretty certain by our drafting in the last 2 years, that we're trying to groom a replacement for him.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

1.Yze is accountable but some men need to be inspired.

2. Agreed, I've already suggested the notion that he has lost his way over the past few years.

3.If Yze was picked in the 22 as if he would say no. Just becasue he was selected does not mean Yze didn't give a &*%# and didn't try. As I have stated on numerous occasions I watched a terribly jaded and physically injured individual saunter around the paddock last year as we lost the first 9 games without a wimper.

4. I am excited about Yze. He has the tools and the talent. Bailey would have zapped him with a high volt taser and said if you don't sit up straight and fly right, you're gone! Why would he be in the leadership group otherwise?

1. The problem is with Yze that he isnt accountable and does not chase or inflict defensive pressure on his opponents. How would you know if he needs to be inspired? If he cant inspire himself that how could he be an inspiration to others as a leader?

2. Its a limp and inplausible cop out to suggest that. ND to his fault backed Yze heavily as a player and a leader. He put in inconsistent performances in 2005 which lead to him being removed from the leadership group to try and focus on his game. Yze had the world at his feet at the end of 2002 and squandered the use of his talent with a range of short cut behaviours on the field. He has got worse each year since. Its not an issue of not giving a &*%# and not trying. Too often Yze has played the game on his terms rather than the teams. When up he was fine when the game was tight and contested and easy possessions were not as frequent Yze regularly got lazy and disappeared.

3. Ultimately its the individual that is responsible for his performance. Particularly in 2005 when we went through such a horrible patch Yze strung up a series of poor performances and was lucky not to have been dropped. Tossing the coin for 2005 EF should have been the first of many wake up calls for Yze. He slept through them all. 2006 was more of the same. The problem with footballers is that talent is finite and the opportunity limited to show it. In the past five years Yze's undoubted talent has diminished. His once sharp foot passing is flaky, the peripheral vision and athleticism has dimmed and efforts to tackle dont stick on opponents. In the past 12 months he has given the impression under pressure on a number of occassions of being "spooked" on contact.

4. He had the talent but the speed of the game is finding him out. Its his last year on his current contract. I am sure DB has got stuck into him to see what he could get out of Yze as Yze's last 2 years have been negligible performance. DB has all to gain and nothing to lose by doing it. I am mystified why a selfish and lazy footballer was put in the leadership group. I can only think it is DB trying to get more something out of Yze. IMO its a compromised punt.

[The Emblem 1]

Ben Rutten. And whether a player is drafted no. 1 or comes off the rookie list is irrelevant when debating whether he is capable of playing a position.

As for Carroll, he doesn't rate in the best dozen fullbacks in the comp, and I'm pretty certain by our drafting in the last 2 years, that we're trying to groom a replacement for him.

Jeez you blokes are tough, Moses would have struggled at FB for the MFC last year!

I think the problem is that Carroll is playing out of position, he is a very very good back pocket. But in a similar fashion to Bizzell he has had to step up due to our inability to find the FB answer...and I think there is every chance that we will find that in the current crop of U23 KP propects.

So instead of slagging "Disco" off, how about we applaud him for doing a tough job under duress, and look forward to when he is part of a more balanced backline formation.

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

1. The problem is with Yze that he isnt accountable and does not chase or inflict defensive pressure on his opponents. How would you know if he needs to be inspired? If he cant inspire himself that how could he be an inspiration to others as a leader?

2. Its a limp and inplausible cop out to suggest that. ND to his fault backed Yze heavily as a player and a leader. He put in inconsistent performances in 2005 which lead to him being removed from the leadership group to try and focus on his game. Yze had the world at his feet at the end of 2002 and squandered the use of his talent with a range of short cut behaviours on the field. He has got worse each year since. Its not an issue of not giving a &*%# and not trying. Too often Yze has played the game on his terms rather than the teams. When up he was fine when the game was tight and contested and easy possessions were not as frequent Yze regularly got lazy and disappeared.

3. Ultimately its the individual that is responsible for his performance. Particularly in 2005 when we went through such a horrible patch Yze strung up a series of poor performances and was lucky not to have been dropped. Tossing the coin for 2005 EF should have been the first of many wake up calls for Yze. He slept through them all. 2006 was more of the same. The problem with footballers is that talent is finite and the opportunity limited to show it. In the past five years Yze's undoubted talent has diminished. His once sharp foot passing is flaky, the peripheral vision and athleticism has dimmed and efforts to tackle dont stick on opponents. In the past 12 months he has given the impression under pressure on a number of occassions of being "spooked" on contact.

4. He had the talent but the speed of the game is finding him out. Its his last year on his current contract. I am sure DB has got stuck into him to see what he could get out of Yze as Yze's last 2 years have been negligible performance. DB has all to gain and nothing to lose by doing it. I am mystified why a selfish and lazy footballer was put in the leadership group. I can only think it is DB trying to get more something out of Yze. IMO its a compromised punt.

I put Yze's sub-par performance down to undisclosed injuries, and a lack of confidence. I don't see how you can comment on his attitude, when you don't know what goes on behind the scenes?

He's a Champion and one of our better performers over the last ten years. Fickle supporters are the scourge of the Melbournefc.

Yze definately deserves his spot on the leadeship group, purely because of how others at the club look up to him.

[mo64 5,881]

I think the problem is that Carroll is playing out of position, he is a very very good back pocket.

DeeReaming, who would be the type of players that Carroll could match up with playing in a back pocket? Personally, I don't think he reads the game well enough to play as a 3rd tall.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I don't see how you can comment on his attitude, when you don't know what goes on behind the scenes?

Its the behaviour that is observed during the game not what goes on behind the scenes

I put Yze's sub-par performance down to undisclosed injuries, and a lack of confidence.

That is a judgement that you could only make if you know what goes on behind the scenes.

[Spin-it-to-Goodwin-it 579]

Its the behaviour that is observed during the game not what goes on behind the scenes

That would be your judgement - How do you know he is not injured during the game/s? If you don't, how can you call it poor attitude?

That is a judgement that you could only make if you know what goes on behind the scenes.

No, that's my opinion - based on the word going around that he may have been carrying something. Prove to me otherwise :angry:

Rhino, there's a big difference between having an opinion on someone and judging someone - One is open, encouraging and uplifting....and the other is closed, condemning and useless . Your remarks consistently fall into the later category - Attempting to make your self feel a little bigger, or a little more write about a subject. Any guesses why you would want to try and do that?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

That would be your judgement - How do you know he is not injured during the game/s? If you don't, how can you call it poor attitude?

No, that's my opinion - based on the word going around that he may have been carrying something. Prove to me otherwise :angry:

Rhino, there's a big difference between having an opinion on someone and judging someone - One is open, encouraging and uplifting....and the other is closed, condemning and useless . Your remarks consistently fall into the later category - Attempting to make your self feel a little bigger, or a little more write about a subject. Any guesses why you would want to try and do that?

I just find it amazing you challenge my opinion of Yze's play over a the last 5 years in the course of game as not knowing what happens behind the scenes then somehow justify your statement of "undisclosed injuries" as your opinion.

We both expressed an opinion on a subject but just have a different point of view. Just spare us the pretentious and facile differentiations.

[paddo 0]

FB: Bell Holland Frawley

HB: Petterd Rivers Whelan

C: Dunn McLean Bruce

HF: Robertson Miller Bate

FF: Davey Neitz Newton

1R: White McDonald Jones

I/C: Sylvia Bartram Meesen Green

EM: Yze Moloney Wheatley

Apologies to Paul Wheatley, but sometimes players have to miss out to fast track the development of others (i.e. Frawley).

Other points:

1: Holland is our only viable option at full back in the short term. Carroll was exposed too often last year.

2: Dunn must be given more opportunities in the centre/on a wing

3: DB must back Brad Miller at CHF

4: Neita can't spend the entire season in the goal square - Newton needs to be given a chance to play deep