TALLS?

[Bails 0]

SIS anyone listen to Cameron on the radi last night..... poor i thought!! dodged the questions and did it very badly...

first we all agree TJ is a good player.. YES!

Cameron last night tried to convince us a number of times that the reason we got rid of him was for draft piks and draft piks only... lets be honest yes we did it for draft piks but we really did it coz hes a bad egg.... it annoys me that when cameron was asked this he didnt have the fruits to say yeh he didnt have a great attitude and he had run out of chances... that annoyed me!! dont lie to us.......

Secondly.. he mentioned we need four ruckman.. on our list...

Why??

i dont get why? get rid of one for a draft pik.. any pik will do.. but just do it.. if wat cameron said last night bout draft piks and how its the main priority and clearly wqe r cleaning out.. then lets reall clean the joint out.... get as many piks as we can.... i know this will sound ridiculous but get rid of bruce and miller.... lets have a lean yr or two but get 4-5 piks in the top 20 this yr.. The hawks have shown that thats wat you need to really turn the club around.. no point having 2-3 piks early, one in top ten then one in the teens then in the twenties.. lets bust some nuts and get serious bout re building and get seriously involved in the November draft...

[michael17seddon 0]

SIS anyone listen to Cameron on the radi last night..... poor i thought!! dodged the questions and did it very badly...

first we all agree TJ is a good player.. YES!

Cameron last night tried to convince us a number of times that the reason we got rid of him was for draft piks and draft piks only... lets be honest yes we did it for draft piks but we really did it coz hes a bad egg.... it annoys me that when cameron was asked this he didnt have the fruits to say yeh he didnt have a great attitude and he had run out of chances... that annoyed me!! dont lie to us.......

it isnt a good tactic to criticise a player that will be an oponent next season or a player that many Dee's fans idolised

[youami 54]

SIS anyone listen to Cameron on the radi last night..... poor i thought!! dodged the questions and did it very badly...

first we all agree TJ is a good player.. YES!

Cameron last night tried to convince us a number of times that the reason we got rid of him was for draft piks and draft piks only... lets be honest yes we did it for draft piks but we really did it coz hes a bad egg.... it annoys me that when cameron was asked this he didnt have the fruits to say yeh he didnt have a great attitude and he had run out of chances... that annoyed me!! dont lie to us.......

Secondly.. he mentioned we need four ruckman.. on our list...

Why??

i dont get why? get rid of one for a draft pik.. any pik will do.. but just do it.. if wat cameron said last night bout draft piks and how its the main priority and clearly wqe r cleaning out.. then lets reall clean the joint out.... get as many piks as we can.... i know this will sound ridiculous but get rid of bruce and miller.... lets have a lean yr or two but get 4-5 piks in the top 20 this yr.. The hawks have shown that thats wat you need to really turn the club around.. no point having 2-3 piks early, one in top ten then one in the teens then in the twenties.. lets bust some nuts and get serious bout re building and get seriously involved in the November draft...

I heard the same interview and thought he said enough without saying anything as to the reason(s) TJ is no longer at Melbourne, very diplomatic and a very good interview under the circumstances.

He may have a future in politics.

[phoenix 32]

What a fantastically appropriate username.

Who helped you?

[pantaloons 2,019]

Secondly.. he mentioned we need four ruckman.. on our list...

Why??

The 2006 Semi Final against Fremantle was a pretty good illustration of this. Having 426 come into the team to fill the second ruck spot shortly before being delisted may not have cost us the game and our season, but it sure didn't help. I'm more than happy with four ruckmen on the list. In addition, White has only 2 or 3 years left, and Jamar, Johnson and Meesen have some serious work to do in the next 2 to 3 years to forge an AFL career. Expect plenty more ruck changes over the next 3 years at Melbourne.

[mauriesy 7,203]

Cameron last night tried to convince us a number of times that the reason we got rid of him was for draft piks and draft piks only... lets be honest yes we did it for draft piks but we really did it coz hes a bad egg.... it annoys me that when cameron was asked this he didnt have the fruits to say

You really expect Craig Cameron to come out and say TJ was a "bad egg"?

[Mattress 0]

SIS anyone listen to Cameron on the radi last night..... poor i thought!! dodged the questions and did it very badly...

first we all agree TJ is a good player.. YES!

Cameron last night tried to convince us a number of times that the reason we got rid of him was for draft piks and draft piks only... lets be honest yes we did it for draft piks but we really did it coz hes a bad egg.... it annoys me that when cameron was asked this he didnt have the fruits to say yeh he didnt have a great attitude and he had run out of chances... that annoyed me!! dont lie to us.......

Secondly.. he mentioned we need four ruckman.. on our list...

Why??

i dont get why? get rid of one for a draft pik.. any pik will do.. but just do it.. if wat cameron said last night bout draft piks and how its the main priority and clearly wqe r cleaning out.. then lets reall clean the joint out.... get as many piks as we can.... i know this will sound ridiculous but get rid of bruce and miller.... lets have a lean yr or two but get 4-5 piks in the top 20 this yr.. The hawks have shown that thats wat you need to really turn the club around.. no point having 2-3 piks early, one in top ten then one in the teens then in the twenties.. lets bust some nuts and get serious bout re building and get seriously involved in the November draft...

Whats the point in getting rid of more players for picks in a thin draft? Hawthorn did it in a year when there were kids galore. I think too many people have taken to much out of our posititon this year. How many people seriously think we're a bottom 3 side? Everyones only focusing on Bruce,Green and Miller. What about the young guns coming through. Mc Lean, injured.Jones 2nd b&f. Bate 3rd b&f. Sylvia injured. Maloney injured. Dunn New found spot wing/tagger. Bartram injured. Rivers injured. Newton 2nds at sandy to great prospect ff.Have a look and think about that before everyone starts writing us off 2 weeks before pre season has even started.

[Redleg 40,623]

The 2006 Semi Final against Fremantle was a pretty good illustration of this. Having 426 come into the team to fill the second ruck spot shortly before being delisted may not have cost us the game and our season, but it sure didn't help. I'm more than happy with four ruckmen on the list. In addition, White has only 2 or 3 years left, and Jamar, Johnson and Meesen have some serious work to do in the next 2 to 3 years to forge an AFL career. Expect plenty more ruck changes over the next 3 years at Melbourne.

I think I read somewhere there were 15 Ruckmen this year in the draft who could be picked. Therefore we should be able to at least get one ( hopefully with some ability ) as a late pick or Rookie.

[Bails 0]

I think i am being misunderstood....

do we agree it wasnt ability reasons for trading TJ?

it was clearly off field issues.. which we all know of.. i got it right earlier in the week when i said TJ will go to brisbane.. Diablo will support that.. and i know for a fact TJ has alot more issues of the field which people are not aware of... i loved him and i am extremely sad to lose him, dont get me wrong...

So u wouldnt want to trade Jamar for a third round pik??

i find that incredible!!!

and what was the problem with trying to get one more early pik considering we r going for "youth"?

id be happy now to sacrifice another 28 yr old big name to get another early pik... and who was the fool that said its a dud draft... u got no idea its an excellent draft

[Mattress 0]

id be happy now to sacrifice another 28 yr old big name to get another early pik... and who was the fool that said its a dud draft... u got no idea its an excellent draft

[Redleg 40,623]

Tell me who's so excellent after pick 15?

Who really knows for sure?

[Premiers '08 0]

Tell me who's so excellent after pick 15?

How longs a piece of string?

Only time will tell mate Mattress (what kind of a nickname is that anyway?)

[pantaloons 2,019]

I think I read somewhere there were 15 Ruckmen this year in the draft who could be picked. Therefore we should be able to at least get one ( hopefully with some ability ) as a late pick or Rookie.

That's good news. There are huge question marks over our ruck division. If we're building for success in 3 or so years time, we're going to need at least one very good ruckman ready to go.

[deanox 9,845]

What a fantastically appropriate username.

Who helped you?

i like this post. even if only because you have been a member since 2005, only have 37 posts, but basing those posts on this one it isnt 37 deeply thought football posts, its 37 of 'wtf? are you stupid?' when someone pisses you off haha

[leucopogon 1,518]

I know history counts for pretty much bugger all when it comes to drafting and player development, but it shows, as many are well aware, that talls are notoriously slow to develop and/or a risky proposition with an early first round draft pick.

Of the current crop of established rucks I think there's only about 4 or 5 that were first rounders (White [pick 1], Fraser [pick 1], Ottens [pick 2], McIntosh [pick 9?], Hale [pick 7]). Most of the rest were mid-draft picks, late round speculative picks, PSD pick-ups or rookie elevations. Some of the best were rookie elevations: ie. Cox and Sandilands.

What I'm trying to say is, I hope we don't use our early picks to go for a ruckman, if we could get Kreuzer I'd make an exception because he's obviously a freak. As others have said, rucking is an old man's game where experience, guile and strength that comes from a long career are huge assets. If you look back over the past 7 or so All-Austrlian teams there's a recurrent theme with ruckmen, age and experience (possibly the exception here is Cox who developed early). But Lade, Primus, King and Everitt featured heavily in those teams, and all were/are in their prime or twilight years.

I think the ruck is a largely over-rated position in the modern day game where winning the clearance primarily comes down to positioning of ground players, ability to read the tap, and probably a lot of luck most of all. As long as we've got someone that can compete in the ruck (White, one of the comps smallest ruckmen is now probably on his last legs) and offer a reasonable amount of presence around the ground by foot or hand then that's okay with me.

The priority for us is KPP (forward and back), midfielders with good skill (now that TJ has left) and hopefully some pace. A run-with player could also be a good pick up (someone like McGinnity).

Any ruckmen taken in this draft should be with pick 21 or later I reckon or even the rookie draft.

[Bails 0]

i dont like losing our best players either..

but if they have decided to go for youth and get early piks then lets get serious bout it and get early piks.....

if that means trading our "so called good players" then lets do it!!!

we have traded TJ for a pik

lets trade miller for a second round pik

and jamar for a thir round pik...

makes sense to me..

[leucopogon 1,518]

i dont like losing our best players either..

but if they have decided to go for youth and get early piks then lets get serious bout it and get early piks.....

if that means trading our "so called good players" then lets do it!!!

we have traded TJ for a pik

lets trade miller for a second round pik

and jamar for a thir round pik...

makes sense to me..

I like your train of thought but I'm willing to see if Bailey can do anything with Miller before trading him off. He's still quite young (24 or 25?) and 3 seasons ago was being touted as the next Wayne Carey on these forums. He has something to offer that's for sure and our list is currently short on talls (mind the pun ) so it may be worth keeping him on the list, for depth (which all clubs need) if nothing else. In this so-called shallow draft, I don't think trading away some of our limited number of talls (ie. miller & Jamar) for late picks is worthwhile. It's been said there are 15 ruckmen in this draft or something. We'll be able to pick one up with a 4th round pick probably or maybe even in the rookie draft. Plus we already got a 1st round ruckman (just happened that he was in the 2004 draft). I say we hang onto Jamar, he's got no trade currency seemingly and he's still very young. As I said in my earlier post, rucking is a game for the old heads of the comp. We have White to compete for next season and maybe the one after, by which time Jamar and Meesen should be ready to step in and at least compete for the tap and not get walked all over.

I'm all for trading, but not trading just for trading's sake. The club has to be smart about it, I think they've done tremendously well this trade week.

[rpfc 28,150]

We got people angry over the fact we didn't get second and third round picks for other players!

Just calm down and start posting again when you've wrapped your head around the Johnstone trade. That goes for everyone.

We have 7 free spots on our list.

4, 14, 21 will bring three good youngsters. Meesen coming in. Bode should be elevated, he has shown enough (that effort from 55 against Collingwood, that was touched on the line, was nearly a matchwinning goal, great stuff). And pick 3 in PSD. That leaves just 1 more spot, hopefully on Valenti (a willing goer who deserves a chance), who will late in the draft. So really, there is little need for anymore 2nd or 3rd round picks.

Seven is a pretty large change in one year.