Not much movement in Cal’s latest Phantom Form Guide

Reckon this could be a year where the form guide looks very different to the draft guide - i.e. where each player is expected to be drafted

For example, he’s already flagged that the Tigers could have strong interest in Grij at 3 or 4, and yet he’s ranked at 13 in the form guide

So hard to get a read on who will be available at our picks

SEN were just re-looking at the covid 2020 draft. This might be a weak draft but surely better than that one.

2 hours ago, shakeandbake said:

Yeah a lot to play out, but Grjl and Linsday being available at our sports per Cal would be a fantastic results despite my preferred agenda of trading up to get Robey. Tigers VFL had Grjl taking the kickouts and playing behind the ball, and looked a bit like McVee. I wonder if he could be purposed as a back pocket in his first year. Looks to have the wheels and agility to go with small forwards and would provide good rebound. Also between the two allow Rivers and Lindsay to get further afield.

I've shifted away from Lindsay. Love his kicking, but too many question marks over his ball winning ability. If Grjl is available I'd take him and Dovaston and that's a great injection of pace for a game style that is going to need it.

The beauty of the game style McRae brought to Collingwood is the speed of ball movement was helped by 3 or 4 elite kickers they have, but all their speed forward of centre from the likes of McCreary and Hill was devastating.

We already have Windsor and Kozzy's pace out of the middle, with Langdon's running power, Lindsay, Langford and Bowey's kicking. Pair this with an injection of pace from Dovaston and Grjl, and injuries permitting, we look very different next year, and not incapable of playing a fast, accurate slingshot game.

On 22/10/2025 at 12:34, Axis of Bob said:

Dare I say, and this is certainly not a direct comparison nor even any acknowledgement of similarity with Josh Lindsay, the Toumpas trap.

Toumpas was a great kick, clever, high character, classy and had a whole lot of very good AFL traits. The problem is that they were stuck behind ordinary athleticism from a low-contest player. That meant that we barely got to see his clever ball use because we didn’t get much of it and was smashed as soon as he did.

If I were to pick up that type of player I’d prefer to do it later in the draft where I’m hoping to get role players rather than core pieces of the team.

As for Lindsay, I’d like to see more before having a strong opinion about him.

Your analysis is great.

But Toumpas was not a 'great' kick. He would have been able to play a half back role at AFL level if he was - even though he was only average pace and soft.

Looking at Lindsay's highlights, you see a player who reads the play well and finds loose ball but no contested ability. I think he looks a decent kick but his kicking does not have the speed of the elite kickers at AFL level. Grjl looks to have more of this.

I would advocate trading out of this year's draft into the future if we could pick up a decent interest rate. There will be good players to come out of the draft but there are not many slam dunks.

Don’t know a thing about the draft, just reading the bios’s in Cals guide but……

Oliver Greeves kicking 4.2 and 35 disposals in a prelim sounds ok to me.

I wonder if the hawks would be interested in trading 8 and 37 to for 10 and 22.

Then we can get Dove and Pickett.

Jacob Farrow looks a treat as a HBF/Mid from WA and one of Xavier Taylor or Sam Grlj as available. reckon theres enough talent at our picks to simply take what we can with them (i.e. not trade).

Also think Picket will slide, his write up talks of a good result at reserve level SANFL which is a level below where Kozzie was playing at a similar stage, reckon a number of teams will pass on him early as clearly a work in progress only at 24 in Cal's phantom due to name/brand recognition...

Edited 9 hours ago9 hr by PaulR

19 minutes ago, Roy Boy said:

Don’t know a thing about the draft, just reading the bios’s in Cals guide but……

Oliver Greeves kicking 4.2 and 35 disposals in a prelim sounds ok to me.

Think he is the one Hawthorn tried to have added to their NGA earlier this year.

1 minute ago, Clintosaurus said:

Think he is the one Hawthorn tried to have added to their NGA earlier this year.

Correct.

27 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

I've shifted away from Lindsay. Love his kicking, but too many question marks over his ball winning ability. If Grjl is available I'd take him and Dovaston and that's a great injection of pace for a game style that is going to need it.

The beauty of the game style McRae brought to Collingwood is the speed of ball movement was helped by 3 or 4 elite kickers they have, but all their speed forward of centre from the likes of McCreary and Hill was devastating.

We already have Windsor and Kozzy's pace out of the middle, with Langdon's running power, Lindsay, Langford and Bowey's kicking. Pair this with an injection of pace from Dovaston and Grjl, and injuries permitting, we look very different next year, and not incapable of playing a fast, accurate slingshot game.

Very good points. I've mentioned previously I could see J Lindsay as an understudy and eventual replacement to Salem. As Salem probably has at least two more seasons left, a mosquito fleet with Dovaston would be a more pressing list need I agree.

24 minutes ago, Roy Boy said:

Don’t know a thing about the draft, just reading the bios’s in Cals guide but……

Oliver Greeves kicking 4.2 and 35 disposals in a prelim sounds ok to me.

No insight but guessing he's the big bodied mid who the game is evolving past. The type who gets exposed by pace on defence. He's a class above at Coates league, but at 191cm what role does he play as a forward and how would he go against guys his size or bigger with better athleticism might be the knock. Might end up being the Murphy Reid of this draft though who had knocks for size and role.

Edited 8 hours ago8 hr by shakeandbake

17 minutes ago, shakeandbake said:

No insight but guessing he's the big bodied mid who the game is evolving past. The type who gets exposed by pace on defence. He's a class above at Coates league, but at 191cm what role does he play as a forward and how would he go against guys his size or bigger with better athleticism might be the knock. Might end up being the Murphy Reid of this draft though who had knocks for size and role.

Yeah that’s the question with him (and to a lesser extent Sharp, but Sharp seems to be more well rounded and has leadership qualities)

But you still need at least one of them - the problem is we’ve had three of them dominating our midfield for the last five years

The question I’m curious about is do we think Langford alone can be our inside beast in years to come, or do we need to add another in that mould to support him once Viney and Steele slow down/retire? Or can someone like a Kolt grow into that role (he played well for Casey as an inside mid late this season)

As always in JT we trust

4 minutes ago, demoncat said:

The question I’m curious about is do we think Langford alone can be our inside beast in years to come, or do we need to add another in that mould to support him once Viney and Steele slow down/retire? Or can someone like a Kolt grow into that role (he played well for Casey as an inside mid late this season)

It's a good question - something I've been wondering. Given how well he did this year playing on the wing and given he is a good kick, maybe he is better suited not to be our main inside player. Seemingly a few on here assume he will be it. Some say he's similar to Bont... but Bont has had Libba (and others) feeding it out to him for years (not that he isn't capable of winning it inside). Also think Lindsay seems more natural / effective inside on what we've seen - and that's his first year with limited preseason. Once he's had a few full pre-seasons....

40 minutes ago, PaulR said:

Also think Picket will slide, his write up talks of a good result at reserve level SANFL which is a level below where Kozzie was playing at a similar stage, reckon a number of teams will pass on him early as clearly a work in progress only at 24 in Cal's phantom due to name/brand recognition...

Kozzie actually played most of his draft year in sanfl reserves too. Except he was 18, Latrelle is about to turn 20 and 2 years post his draft year (although December born).

I’m very suspicious on the idea he’s a top 30 pick when it took him until the last round of the sanfl season to get a senior debut. What were Glenelg waiting for?

At the same time he clearly has talent and every team is looking for more forward line talent. Gun smalls are just super hard to find. If I had to bet on it I’d say he probably goes in the 20’s because the alternatives aren’t any safer or more talented.

15 minutes ago, demoncat said:

Yeah that’s the question with him (and to a lesser extent Sharp, but Sharp seems to be more well rounded and has leadership qualities)

But you still need at least one of them - the problem is we’ve had three of them dominating our midfield for the last five years

The question I’m curious about is do we think Langford alone can be our inside beast in years to come, or do we need to add another in that mould to support him once Viney and Steele slow down/retire? Or can someone like a Kolt grow into that role (he played well for Casey as an inside mid late this season)

As always in JT we trust

I can actually see Xavier Lindsay being capable of playing (or at least developing into a) centre square mid. He is hard at it, wins his own ball and moves through traffic well.

58 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Your analysis is great.

But Toumpas was not a 'great' kick. He would have been able to play a half back role at AFL level if he was - even though he was only average pace and soft.

Looking at Lindsay's highlights, you see a player who reads the play well and finds loose ball but no contested ability. I think he looks a decent kick but his kicking does not have the speed of the elite kickers at AFL level. Grjl looks to have more of this.

Thanks. I certainly don't want to compare the two players directly, as I only looked at Toumpas as an example to demonstrate a point.

Lindsay and Toumpas are very different players and played different roles as juniors, with strengths and weaknesses that are different. When drafted, Toumpas was expected to be both quicker and better at winning contested footy than he turned out to be, which was what did him in. Toumpas was a good kick but certainly not as good as Lindsay. Toumpas was a very efficient kick whilst Lindsay is much more creative and can work at angles Toumpas simply couldn't. It means that you can make some allowances in a player's role and accept some of the negatives to his game to be able to get a boot of that quality into the team, provided that you feed him the ball enough for it to be effective. I'm personally not sure that I would want to do that with such an early pick but I can certainly understand those that do. I think his role projection seems to be pretty limited though, so you'd be drafting a designated half back kicker and hoping that your system can accommodate it.

Edited 8 hours ago8 hr by Axis of Bob

8 minutes ago, demoncat said:

Yeah that’s the question with him (and to a lesser extent Sharp, but Sharp seems to be more well rounded and has leadership qualities)

But you still need at least one of them - the problem is we’ve had three of them dominating our midfield for the last five years

The question I’m curious about is do we think Langford alone can be our inside beast in years to come, or do we need to add another in that mould to support him once Viney and Steele slow down/retire? Or can someone like a Kolt grow into that role (he played well for Casey as an inside mid late this season)

As always in JT we trust

That's the million dollar question and what I can see is dominating opinions throughout the thread. I understand the love for Grjl, comparisons to Butters and the desire to land an inside/outside mid. Is that over correcting though when we have Kossie and Windsor to play/grow into that role. I envisage X Lindsay will become our next Angus Brayshaw. Could play inside mid but is required across the wing or half back due to adaptability.

I still think you need a couple who can go inside and get centre bounce and clearance ascendency at times. Viney and Steele will be gone in three years. That's why I see Robey learning as a HFF and growing into a mid/fwd role as perfect for list needs.

Kolt is an interesting one. That's the role that he should probably be playing but hasn't shown enough for mine. From his junior highlights and watching him this year I gather he wants to be one of the 'it' guys. One of the leaders and teams best players, but is struggling with this in his transition to AFL. I think his ceiling will be more of a general fwd who can pinch hit in the middle like a Paul Chapman. I'd have him follow Melk around all preseason who was maligned at the Dons in his early career to improve his footy IQ.

Edited 7 hours ago7 hr by shakeandbake

Any chance we could have some paragraphs, folks? 😄

21 minutes ago, shakeandbake said:

That's the million dollar question and what I can see is dominating opinions throughout the thread. I understand the love for Grjl, comparisons to Butters and the desire to land an inside/outside mid. Is that over correcting though when we have Kossie and Windsor to play/grow into that role. I envisage X Lindsay will become our next Angus Brayshaw. Could play inside mid but is required across the wing or half back due to adaptability. I still think you need a couple who can go inside and get centre bounce and clearance ascendency at times. Viney and Steele will be gone in three years. That's why I see Robey learning as a HFF and growing into a mid/fwd role as perfect for list needs.

Grjl could definitely play half forward. Just as Dovaston could. Both are great off the line and off the edge of the square.

The more I watch of Grjl, the more excited I get. I just don't think he'll be on the board when it's our pick.

1 hour ago, demoncat said:

Yeah that’s the question with him (and to a lesser extent Sharp, but Sharp seems to be more well rounded and has leadership qualities)

But you still need at least one of them - the problem is we’ve had three of them dominating our midfield for the last five years

The question I’m curious about is do we think Langford alone can be our inside beast in years to come, or do we need to add another in that mould to support him once Viney and Steele slow down/retire? Or can someone like a Kolt grow into that role (he played well for Casey as an inside mid late this season)

As always in JT we trust

1 hour ago, deelusions from afar said:

It's a good question - something I've been wondering. Given how well he did this year playing on the wing and given he is a good kick, maybe he is better suited not to be our main inside player. Seemingly a few on here assume he will be it. Some say he's similar to Bont... but Bont has had Libba (and others) feeding it out to him for years (not that he isn't capable of winning it inside). Also think Lindsay seems more natural / effective inside on what we've seen - and that's his first year with limited preseason. Once he's had a few full pre-seasons....

I think our issue in the past hasn't been too many bulls, it's too many bulls who had absolutely no other string to their bow. Trac was the only one of the 3 who could move forward, and even then, he was a terrible set shot.

Langford has shown he can play elsewhere, and if Lindsay develops into an inside mid I think he's shown the same. I think Greeves has also shown he can possibly move forward, so is probably less of an issue than carrying Viney, Trac and Oliver.

Zero hanger is crazy

They have us taking Schubert and Philippou which isn't that bad

But they have Cooper duff Tytler going the pick after our 2 picks

Surely if CDT is still available we take him

1 hour ago, demoncat said:

The question I’m curious about is do we think Langford alone can be our inside beast in years to come, or do we need to add another in that mould to support him once Viney and Steele slow down/retire? Or can someone like a Kolt grow into that role (he played well for Casey as an inside mid late this season)

Langford will grow in to a strong inside player but I think that part of his game is a little overrated, at least for now.

Happy to hold all Kolt stock and see him trained up as a direct replacement for Steele as a defensive running, tackling mid who can hopefully eclipse Steele sooner than later.

So yes, I do think there’s a gap for a Viney type. But is that player available in this draft? Greeves looks similar to Langford to me, does his best work as an accumulator despite his huge frame. Sharp is clearly an inside bull, just a question on how good he is. After him the next truly strong inside guy might be Adam Sweid.

Cumming, Phillipou, Dovaston are all guys who can give you something at clearances. Honestly I wouldn’t be against taking 2 of them and just rolling them forward, high half forward and on ball.

4 hours ago, Roy Boy said:

Don’t know a thing about the draft, just reading the bios’s in Cals guide but……

Oliver Greeves kicking 4.2 and 35 disposals in a prelim sounds ok to me.

Yes I agree. 2 of our most impressive players this year who improved as the season went on were Culley and Langford Both 190+ and capable of going forward taking a mark and kicking a goal. Don't get any better than Dear at Hawthorn, Crows captain or Bont at Dogs.

My other one is H-H

On 22/10/2025 at 15:40, Dee Boys said:

His decision making under pressure is poor/panicked and he had the worst missed tackle percentage this season of any footballer in the competition to have played a senior game.

He’ll do a job in the midfield but he’s nowhere near the level of those aforementioned.

Bingo

Coming around to Philippou. Pairing him with Cumming, Dovaston, Lindsay or Grjl would be great.

There was a comment earlier in this thread questioning his character because he backed himself as the best prospect in the draft. I don’t see it at all; Mattaes was the exact same in his draft year, and you can hardly claim he’s a cancer to his club’s culture. It’s just confidence in his ability. It’s on the nose for me, but he’d know from day 1 of preseason that it’s time to keep his head down and get to work.