I was there yesterday. First quarter was as bad as I’ve seen in my 48 years. Once again I agree with everything said about umpiring. Suns are definitely a Nepo Baby team though, they play great footy, pushing for finals and only 13000 there to watch…

10 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes we did. We were not switched on, mind and body

It’s been there 90% of the Season

Too much Love, not enough Hard Work and Respect

Not much respect for the Guernsey or the badge this season.

15 hours ago, Nietaphart said:

I’m just happy we moved the ball forward quicker than GC. The stats don’t lie ppls’s

No they don't.

We couldn't move the ball forward at pace in the first quarter - and scored a point

They were brilliant at doing so in the first quarter - and kicked 5 goals 7.

For the rest of the match we moved the ball more quickly and effectively than them - and outscored them and had 24 scoring shots to their 17.

Our ability to move the ball effectively from our back half is evidenced by this data (particularly impressive given we were so poor in the first quarter)

Points from defensive half

For		Against
Match	Season	Match	Season *
44	26.8	22	39.7

* Against season average represents average points conceded by Melbourne across the season, not average points scored by Gold Coast.

Edited Saturday at 23:001 day by binman

5 hours ago, bing181 said:

Not even close.

Mercifully, those in charge understand that with the list the way it is and our game the way it is, changing coaches would be the worst thing we could do - if you think we're bad at the moment, watch what happens with a new coach and starting all over again. Wilderness.

I quite like your posts but this one made me laugh.

The list and game plan are the responsibility of the FD and we are bloody awful and entrenched in the bottom 4-5 teams. We are already in the ‘wilderness’.

Not trusting your team’s effort, lack of understanding by the players as to what is expected and how to perform, lack of ability to execute basic skills of the game, poor contract structure with players not playing to their potential, lack of player development, lack of assets to effectively trade in new talent and the inability to attract talent…… that’s us. AKA Wilderness

5 hours ago, bing181 said:

Mercifully, those in charge understand that with the list the way it is and our game the way it is, changing coaches would be the worst thing we could do - if you think we're bad at the moment, watch what happens with a new coach and starting all over again. Wilderness.

When you say the list the way it is, you mean in such poor shape?

13 hours ago, JJJ said:

The 3rd quarter pile on by GC was the end of the game. Their effort level and run died off early in the 4th and allowed us to get some momentum but they were definitely not running on all cylinders.

Yes!

In the Dean Bailey days, almost every week he talked after losses about winning small parts of the game - halves, quarters or even parts of quarters. He was working with a truly awful inherited list and so had to find positivity somewhere, but I still found it frustrating. Mainly because it ignored the fact that these good patches rarely troubled the opposition. We weren't often wresting back control but merely (usually narrowly) outscoring a team in cruise mode. And apart from anything else, it was so unambitious. The expectations must have been so low.

Goodwin saying he was proud of the final three quarters was too reminiscent of this for my liking. And as you said, JJJ, it bizarrely ignored the third quarter, which I think was almost as bad as the first. And even if the third was somehow passable (six goals to two?!), the game was over after the first quarter. We only looked vaguely damaging at the very end of the game when Gold Coast had slowed to a walk. Our team's own non-celebration after goals showed we knew there was no life left in the game.

Yes, it's difficult to win with two players down. But it doesn't guarantee massacres. And teams have beaten us with players down far more than I care to remember in the last 20 years. I reckon GWS, on their own, have done it two or three times.

I don't like our list. But Goodwin does. (He's said it numerous times over the past few years.) And whatever you say about it, it's a list that still has a large number of battle-hardened, very experienced footballers - many with a Premiership medallion. You can't on the one hand say "I fully believe in this group" and then on the other say "I'm proud we broke even after conceding twelve scores to one in the first quarter".

To me, that's not putting a positive spin on a shocker of a game; that's conceding we're back to holding ultra-low expectations.

Edited yesterday at 00:111 day by The Taciturn Demon

41 minutes ago, binman said:

No they don't.

We couldn't move the ball forward at pace in the first quarter - and scored a point

They were brilliant at doing so in the first quarter - and kicked 5 goals 7.

For the rest of the match we moved the ball more quickly and effectively than them - and outscored them and had 24 scoring shots to their 17.

Our ability to move the ball effectively from our back half is evidenced by this data (particularly impressive given we were so poor in the first quarter)

Points from defensive half

For		Against
Match	Season	Match	Season *
44	26.8	22	39.7

* Against season average represents average points conceded by Melbourne across the season, not average points scored by Gold Coast.

There were many junk time last quarter scores when the game was lost that make these stats look inflated.

As for the ease and effectiveness of ball movement, the Suns had this in spades over us. The amount of times the Suns had players free and who provided easy targets was concerning. The Suns play with better method and have better skills.

My 👀’s don’t lie 😜.

With Q1 being a complete disaster, I give credit to the players for keeping at it and losing by a modest margin with 2 players down with a sniff of being in a position to win in Q4.

Sorry if I am accepting mediocracy, but for me it's better to lookk for positives than beating myself up over something I have no influence over.

14 minutes ago, Nietaphart said:

There were many junk time last quarter scores when the game was lost that make these stats look inflated.

As for the ease and effectiveness of ball movement, the Suns had this in spades over us. The amount of times the Suns had players free and who provided easy targets was concerning. The Suns play with better method and have better skills.

My 👀’s don’t lie 😜.

Total rubbish (except them having better skills, that much is true).

One thing that doesn't lie is your confirmation bias

Edited Saturday at 23:491 day by binman

3 minutes ago, binman said:

Total rubbish (except them having better skills, that much is true).

One thing that doesn't lie is your confirmation bias

Now there is a damming judgement of character/opinon Binman.

Fact is we were outscored in the second and third quarters combined. We fought back galantly in the second but when challenged Gold Coast outplayed us once again.

Qualitative (experience) data has a role to play in examining the game as well. Just saying 🙄

It's commendable that we fought it out.

But it does bring up why did we not play our best in the beginning.

It's the same with our season.

We have beaten the.luons at the Gabba and lost by a point to the pies.

What gives?

Why the inconsistency?

Our forward line has probably been the most inconsistent in the comp so that's a part of it.

But the rest of the team?

Is it a coaching issue?

I'm also concerned by our lack of depth. A few youngsters that showed heaps of talent a year ago have really dropped off

Hard to see the club playing finals for a while with this current team.

The sad thing is many of them won a flag under four years ago. They are not all that old.

We used to have the best midfield and defence in the comp.

Both have disintegrated. Viney is getting too old although he probably gives the most effort. Oliver....well his disposal is all over the place. Tracc....not sure if he's the same player he was.

The good news is we have some great young defenders. Just have to stop playing them fwd.

There are players like Sparrow that play every week and you wonder why. Is it down to lack of depth and why?

Anyway I don't have any answers. Just that the club desperately needs to go shopping. And to stop picking up players other clubs don't want.

No doubt our ball movement this year has been a positive. (Ranked 2nd). However, the stat is a means to an end. It needs to be finished off with marks inside 50. Yesterday a 34 year old showed what forward craft is. Leading up, doubling back, getting free kicks. Apart from brief glimpses from Fritta this year, thats about it. And yet we persist with the same players who are clearly lacking as natural forwards.

Meanwhile, Goodwin has now boxed Turner, who actually knows how to play in front, lead aggressively. run hook leads, take a contested mark etc as a backman. You can find a backman any old day. Its time for a fresh pair of eyes or a more fluid mindset.

Edited yesterday at 00:511 day by Jjrogan

27 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

No doubt our ball movement this year has been a positive. (Ranked 2nd). However, the stat is a means to an end. It needs to be finished off with marks inside 50. Yesterday a 34 year old showed what forward craft is. Leading up, doubling back, getting free kicks. Apart from brief glimpses from Fritta this year, thats about it. And yet we persist with the same players who are clearly lacking as natural forwards.

Meanwhile, Goodwin has now boxed Turner, who actually knows how to play in front, lead aggressively. run hook leads, take a contested mark etc as a backman. You can find a backman any old day. Its time for a fresh pair of eyes or a more fluid mindset.

Stats can be misleading can't they ....

11 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Too much Love, not enough Hard Work and Respect

You do not need to go to Christmas dinner with the coach and his family but if you are asked to run into a brick wall you need to respect totally those who ask .

1 hour ago, binman said:

Total rubbish (except them having better skills, that much is true).

One thing that doesn't lie is your confirmation bias

Hmm.. He speaketh of bias... lampoons those that don't bow to the God 'Stats'

Fair dinkum I've yet to see anyone so blind they will not look with open eyes and understand that which befalls them.

No... one must stay glued to stats written in Braille.

The nutshell of our predicament is we play an incomplete style of football and do so without the requisite skill.

We are the epitome of hit and miss.

And the scoreboard backs that up.

As many others suggest throw away the data and just note how and when we score.

No so much a stat ( though i could see someone making it one ) but a come and go trend. Look how we've given teams headstarts. How often do teams score on rebounding our f@#!! up fwd entries ?? How often we go thin not fat or too fat and not straighten up in time.

We're trying to cook to recipe without all the ingredients.

No one needs a pencil and paper , or tablet, to understand us. Just watch. I'm sure that's all the opposition really does.

A picture paints a 1000 words... observation makes for squillions.

We play a game of footy of cheques we can't cash.

This needs to change.

Bin I beseech you good man. Step away from the numbers, just for a while.

Edited yesterday at 01:241 day by beelzebub

23 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Stats can be misleading can't they ....

In isolated they can be. AFL is complex being a 360 degree game with so many factors to take into account.

The ultimate stat is games won, and we have been poor at this for almost 2 years. Our ball movement maybe fast, but it’s mostly ineffective in overall output.

18 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Hmm.. He speaketh of bias... lampoons those that don't bow to the God 'Stats'

Fair dinkum I've yet to see anyone so blind they will not look with open eyes and understand that which befalls them.

No... one must stay glued to stats written in Braille.

The nutshell of our predicament is we play an incomplete style of football and do so without the requisite skill.

We are the epitome of hit and miss.

And the scoreboard backs that up.

As many others suggest throw away the data and just note how and when we score.

No so much a stat ( though i could see someone making it one ) but a come and go trend. Look how we've given teams headstarts. How often do teams score on rebounding our f@#!! up fwd entries ?? How often we go thin not fat or too fat and not straighten up in time.

We're trying to cook to recipe without all the ingredients.

No one needs a pencil and paper , or tablet, to understand us. Just watch. I'm sure that's all the opposition really does.

A picture paints a 1000 words... observation makes for squillions.

We play a game of footy of cheques we can't cash.

This needs to change.

Bin I beseech you good man. Step away from the numbers, just for a while.

That's just nonsense.

I was merely rebutting inaccuracies.

Like the narrative we are not good at moving the ball, when in fact the reality - quantitatively and qualitivity - is the opposite.

As I have pointed out on any number of occasions, ever since i started posting on dl some 11 years ago in fact, the issue is our kicking skills - our last kick inside 50 and our woeful inaccuracy being the two most obvious manifestation of that issue.

It an issue everyone acknowledges, and of course can clearly be seen - and equally obviously the issue manifests in the stats (eg traacs incrediblely low numbers of marks from his kicks inside 50 - back in may he had the worst ratio in the AFL and it hadn't improved since).

No surprise the Footy Show think Fiorini has no case to answer and blame Petts for the incident. Yet Cerra was not blamed for his. Weird hey?

13 minutes ago, binman said:

That's just nonsense.

I was merely rebutting inaccuracies.

Like the narrative we are not good at moving the ball, when in fact the reality - quantitatively and qualitivity - is the opposite.

As I have pointed out on any number of occasions, ever since i started posting on dl some 11 years ago in fact, the issue is our kicking skills - our last kick inside 50 and our woeful inaccuracy being the two most obvious manifestation of that issue.

It an issue everyone acknowledges, and of course can clearly be seen - and equally obviously the issue manifests in the stats (eg traacs incrediblely low numbers of marks from his kicks inside 50 - back in may he had the worst ratio in the AFL and it hadn't improved since).

Ok, this is my last word on this as it could go on and on and on.

The inaccuracies you were rebutting are not actual inaccuracies. My point is we move the ball fast but it is not effective.

The nonsense you called out, is not nonsense in my view.

Your stats on the last 3 quarters do not tell the full picture. The way you use stats is your platform with what you like to do. School others….

I wonder what Kalani White’s take would be on yesterday’s game. I know Jeff was there and assume Kalani would also have been present.

Would he like the huge opportunity to play for the Dees as they transition their list and FD, or would he like the fast paced winning appeal of a side with a great list who are about to become a force? Will be an interesting call.

34 minutes ago, Heart Beats True said:

I wonder what Kalani White’s take would be on yesterday’s game. I know Jeff was there and assume Kalani would also have been present.

Would he like the huge opportunity to play for the Dees as they transition their list and FD, or would he like the fast paced winning appeal of a side with a great list who are about to become a force? Will be an interesting call.

Kalani’s already decided. His choice isn’t gonna change week to week depending on the results. He’s not 5yo. Give him more credit than that.

19 hours ago, waynewussell said:

The stock answer given when a team improves considerably after a disastrous start.

Yes waynerussell it can be. However sometimes the get out card of not giving up and rallying can be a stock answer as well. It's not nothing the way we fought back and I'd rather a team that fights it out to the end but the question I always have after these kind of results is how much can you realistically take out of them? How much is influenced by the other side tapering off? The truth is that when the game was there to be played, GC had the answers for us and we never pulled it back within 2 or 3 goals.

The damage of the first quarter effort unfortunately mitigates some of the positive to be taken out of the way we finished in my opinion. I just can't see how an AFL football team can come out in a game like this, after a bye, wanting to support their under pressure coach who they all apparently love with an effort like we saw in the first quarter.

It makes you sick. Forget gameplans, ball movement, skills. The bare minimum you bring each game is effort, there is never a reason to not be ready for an AFL game. If the Suns could have kicked even a little better we would have been blown off the park.

3 hours ago, Nietaphart said:

Now there is a damming judgement of character/opinon Binman.

Fact is we were outscored in the second and third quarters combined. We fought back galantly in the second but when challenged Gold Coast outplayed us once again.

Qualitative (experience) data has a role to play in examining the game as well. Just saying 🙄

Have to agree here. Also what I’ve been saying for a while is the mental side of things. Very difficult to quantify culture into stats or other metrics - I mean, you can with some things, but mostly, you know it when you see it, or feel it. There are principles; there are good practices; there is intent and standards and leadership. Look at Collingwood vs the Dees. At the moment, I’m sad to say, they have good culture in spades over us. We definitely had it around the Premiership, but a few things broke shortly after, and they haven’t repaired fully yet.

34 minutes ago, Ghostwriter said:

Kalani’s already decided. His choice isn’t gonna change week to week depending on the results. He’s not 5yo. Give him more credit than that.

I trust your judgement Ghosty and I sincerely hope you’re right however as I work with kids his age on a daily basis, I know how easily influenced they can be even when they have strong parents guiding them. Parents are not their primary influencers at that age.

28 minutes ago, layzie said:

Yes waynerussell it can be. However sometimes the get out card of not giving up and rallying can be a stock answer as well. It's not nothing the way we fought back and I'd rather a team that fights it out to the end but the question I always have after these kind of results is how much can you realistically take out of them? How much is influenced by the other side tapering off? The truth is that when the game was there to be played, GC had the answers for us and we never pulled it back within 2 or 3 goals.

The damage of the first quarter effort unfortunately mitigates some of the positive to be taken out of the way we finished in my opinion. I just can't see how an AFL football team can come out in a game like this, after a bye, wanting to support their under pressure coach who they all apparently love with an effort like we saw in the first quarter.

It makes you sick. Forget gameplans, ball movement, skills. The bare minimum you bring each game is effort, there is never a reason to not be ready for an AFL game. If the Suns could have kicked even a little better we would have been blown off the park.

When the pressure was on. We gave nothing

That’s what you take out of yesterday’s game, if you are serious