4 minutes ago, rufus said:

Agree with the first bit.

On the second bit, I don't think we're going to be able to lure any external players here for some time. We are going to struggle to sell the idea of joining up with anyone who was on the field on Sunday to a competitive person (and those are who we need). We already struggled with this coming off a premiership when the lack of genuine competitiveness in our playing group wasn't yet outwardly clear to everyone (though opposition players probably already knew it). Things can change quickly I guess, but I think our only way to re-build is going to be through the draft.

Sad but true, I suppose we'll have to use the same strategy as we did in 2015-2016, bring some veterans on good deals and with premiership pedigree (Jordan Lewis type).

We will never receive the value we perceive we deserve in a trade for these two, but we are hamstrung by their huge contracts. IMO Oliver or Trac would play high level football at a team that lacks a big body mid i.e., Geelong/Crows/North/Saints/Dons/Rich. But, it's time to make the tough call on one of them. Short term pain for long term gain, getting one of them off the books means we have cap space to retain talent and attract free agents AND allows Rivers/Langford genuine midfield minutes. If this means paying part of their salary or trading for cheap, it is what it is.

Ralphy (FWIW…) says no interest in Clarry:

43 minutes ago, gs77 said:

My main concern with this prospect is that Petracca's set shot goal kicking isn't a patch on Dangerfield's.

I don’t watch Geelong as closely as us, obviously, but I’ve never thought Danger is a good set shot, or kick in general. If the data backs you up, fair enough, but I still think Trac can be an elite forward if we made a few really important list and coaching changes.

3 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Ralphy (FWIW…) says no interest in Clarry:

That’s a disaster for the club if true

Of course, it is Ralphy saying it…

Edited July 28Jul 28 by demoncat

5 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Ralphy (FWIW…) says no interest in Clarry:

Ralphy talking down the value “nah no one is keen, you’ll have to give him up for a 4th rounder and pay half his contract”

Take that peanuts views with a grain of salt

4 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I don’t watch Geelong as closely as us, obviously, but I’ve never thought Danger is a good set shot, or kick in general. If the data backs you up, fair enough, but I still think Trac can be an elite forward if we made a few really important list and coaching changes.

Danger career goalkicking 56.0%, this year 54.8%.

Trac career 51.8%, this year 41.7%.

It’s not list and coaching, it’s his lazy shot technique.

9 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Ralphy (FWIW…) says no interest in Clarry:

OH please what a load of [censored]

There is interest in Clarry, there is just no interest to pay our asking price.

57 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Geelong offered us their second rounder and didn't want to take on his entire salary.

Remember their first round pick was tied up in the Smith trade.

There would be riots if we traded Oliver for mid second round pick and were still paying some of his wage.

So let the riots start then!

7 minutes ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

Danger career goalkicking 56.0%, this year 54.8%.

Trac career 51.8%, this year 41.7%.

It’s not list and coaching, it’s his lazy shot technique.

But Trac's game as a forward was always built around score involvements, not kicking goals himself.

In the first half of last year when he was on fire, he was kicking goals (see the Carlton game), but his main strength was score involvements around the arc and the pockets.

Edited July 28Jul 28 by Adam The God

16 minutes ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

Take that peanuts views with a grain of salt

4 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

But Trac's game as a forward was always built around score involvements, not kicking goals himself.

In the first half of last year when he was on fire, he was kicking goals (see the Carlton game), but his main strength was score involvements around the arc and the pockets.

He’s still a gun in this area

His ability to win contests and set up teammates is almost second to none, even if his kicking is hit or miss (mostly miss to be honest)

8 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

But Trac's game as a forward was always built around score involvements, not kicking goals himself.

In the first half of last year when he was on fire, he was kicking goals (see the Carlton game), but his main strength was score involvements around the arc and the pockets.

As I said earlier in the thread if he can get back to his pre-injury level then we should keep him, at his level now I’m a sell. He’s not what he was in contests and his already iffy kicking is worse.

Just don’t let him go to the pies I’ll spew up

I’m honestly wondering what has happened to Clarry in a football sense?

He’s obviously had some issues which we all know about, but all signs pointed towards him being over them and on his way to a redemption season in 2025. And yet… he’s still just a bad plodding along like C-grader out there.

This was a guy who was close to the best player in the competition for many years and as recently as mid 2023.

He only just turned 28, that should be the prime age for an inside mid,is it crazy to hope he could still get back to the Clarry of old?

The last thing I bloody want is for Geelong to get him on a discount and have us subside his salary because I know EXACTLY how that movie plays out.

That's just Geelong being the slippery little crunts they are feeding off the carcass shutting their mouths knowing that a fire sale will be taking place.

44 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Ralphy (FWIW…) says no interest in Clarry:

25 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

OH please what a load of [censored]

There is interest in Clarry, there is just no interest to pay our asking price.

It isn't exactly a sellers market for Oliver. We missed our opportunities to get a reasonable trade.

As a precedent, Pies traded Grundy for pick 27 which end up in the 30's. They also paid about $400k p.a for four years.

Goodwin talks about being ruthless. Ruthlessness starts with our list. Letting Oliver and other players go that he might be attached to but not in the interests of the club to keep, is being ruthless.

Edited July 29Jul 29 by Lucifers Hero

1 minute ago, Lucifers Hero said:

It isn't exactly a sellers market for Oliver. We missed our opportunities to get a reasonable trade.

Pies traded Grundy for pick 27 which end up in the 30's. They also paid about $400k p.a for four years.

Goodwin talks about being ruthless. Ruthlessness starts with our list. Letting Oliver and other players go that he might be attached to but not in the interests of the club to keep, is being ruthless.

Being ruthless is about improving our list, not about trading for well unders. A second round pick for Oliver is extremely unlikely to improve our list. Nor one first round pick for Trac in a poor draft.

Pies had to move Grundy on for salary cap reasons. We don't have this problem.

Everyone says be ruthless, sell sell sell, until we trade a good quality player for absolute peanuts and then they have a meltdown.

Fair to say we lost on the ANB trade, which we made on compassionate grounds, but I would rather ANB over a second round pick, wouldn't you?

Edited July 29Jul 29 by Jaded No More

2 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

It isn't exactly a sellers market for Oliver. We missed our opportunities to get a reasonable trade.

Pies traded Grundy for pick 27 which end up in the 30's. They also paid about $400k p.a for four years.

Goodwin talks about being ruthless. Ruthlessness starts with our list. Letting Oliver and other players go that he might be attached to but not in the interests of the club to keep, is being ruthless.

Difference between being ruthless and committing football suicide. Can't rebuild if the foundations are undermined. Ask North.

1 minute ago, Jaded No More said:

Being ruthless is about improving our list, not about trading for well unders. A second round pick for Oliver is extremely unlikely to improve our list. Nor one first round pick for Trac in a poor draft.

Pies had to move Grundy on for salary cap reasons. We don't have this problem.

Everyone says be ruthless, sell sell sell, until we trade a good quality player for absolute peanuts and then they have a meltdown.

Yes being ruthless is to improve the list. And I am not suggesting anyone be traded for 'unders'.

Really, there is no such thing as 'under' which by implication means 'under market value'. Selling something/someone not in high demand means meeting the market regardless of what owners/fans think the value is. The Grundy example was about meeting the market price, regardless of the reason for 'selling'. Another example of meeting the market was Freo trade of Hogan to GWS. There are many others.

If we want to improve our list by trading players out not in high demand we need to meet the market for them, be it Oliver, Petracca or anyone else. Simples.

Edited July 29Jul 29 by Lucifers Hero

8 minutes ago, Redlagged said:

Difference between being ruthless and committing football suicide. Can't rebuild if the foundations are undermined. Ask North.

Bit of poetic licence taken there...

Just now, Lucifers Hero said:

If we want to improve our list by trading players out not in high demand we need to meet the market for them, not just Oliver. Simples.

Sure, but trading players not in demand is a silly way to improve your list.

You want to trade players who are surplus to your needs, but who also have good market value.

Trading someone like Fritsch for example, who is on a moderate salary, and a player who would improve good teams significantly makes more sense from a list improvement point of view, than trading our two best midfielders (still) for draft picks that may or may not land us equivalent, let alone better replacements.

I am all for trading Clarry or Trac if it helps us land a good proven player, or if we get a bunch of good quality draft picks we can continue to build the list around.

1 hour ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

Ralphy talking down the value “nah no one is keen, you’ll have to give him up for a 4th rounder and pay half his contract”

Take that peanuts views with a grain of salt

The facts don't support his report.

2 time AFLCA winner has no value at age 28.

Current form aside, there should be teams out there who think they can extract the inherent quality that Oliver has.

9 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Sure, but trading players not in demand is a silly way to improve your list.

You want to trade players who are surplus to your needs, but who also have good market value.

Trading someone like Fritsch for example, who is on a moderate salary, and a player who would improve good teams significantly makes more sense from a list improvement point of view, than trading our two best midfielders (still) for draft picks that may or may not land us equivalent, let alone better replacements.

I am all for trading Clarry or Trac if it helps us land a good proven player, or if we get a bunch of good quality draft picks we can continue to build the list around.

The problem is you need minimum 2 A-grade mids to even think about making the 8. 2020-2022 we had Trac & Oliver at A, and Viney B.

Now we’ve got Trac B-grade with flashes of A, Viney B-grade (and dropping) and Oliver C-grade.

We need to either hope Trac can get to solid A again, and Langford get to A, or we need to trade for other A-graders. To do that you need to give up value, no one is going to give us Caleb Serong or Matt Rowell for Bailey Fritsch.

6 minutes ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

no one is going to give us Caleb Serong or Matt Rowell for Bailey Fritsch.

Nor are they giving us them for Oliver or Trac.

TOO LATE.

We’ve doubled down on all of them, Goodwin too. Trac and Oliver were champions and need to get back to their best.

The young need Trac and Oliver to learn from. We’ve made this mistake before.

Can’t sell our best players at their lowest value. Forget it.