Don’t think it’s limited to the pies. This is a certified issue against big teams with big crowds in big matches. 

When was the last big game we won against a big vic team with a big crowd?

Been awhile now guys… & I think it’s absolutely all between the ears tbh.

7 minutes ago, Supreme_Demon said:

We were as soft as butter against Collingwood.

It was embarrassing.

We still haven't avenged Angus Brayshaw and put Brayden Maynard in hospital.

Until we grow some balls and learn to fight back we will continue to be walked all over by these thugs at Collingwood.

I’m not normally all Leveticus but I’ll happily sacrifice Abraham’s first born if someone could take out maynard

 

it is a stain in our club 

2 minutes ago, RedLegs23 said:

Don’t think it’s limited to the pies. This is a certified issue against big teams with big crowds in big matches. 

When was the last big game we won against a big vic team with a big crowd?

Been awhile now guys… & I think it’s absolutely all between the ears tbh.

Essendon or Carlton

18 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

I have a psychological issue playing the Pies. The rage I feel is bordering on unhealthy. 

Agreed. It's been a hard season but ending it like this against the Pies...  I'm almost (almost!) weeping more than WCW (and not just because I burnt my hand rushing a late dinner during the lighting break)

7 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Essendon or Carlton

Nah that Essendon game wasn’t a big game. 

When Kozzy kicked the winner 2 years ago? [censored]…

1 hour ago, SPC said:

They play a style that destroys our zone, as do Freo. 

Freo is different. Freo make us look like witches hats. Pies we can lose humble usually. Freo make Simon look the way I see him. 

1 minute ago, RedLegs23 said:

Nah that Essendon game wasn’t a big game. 

When Kozzy kicked the winner 2 years ago? [censored]…

To be fair, we fared well against Carlton in the SF last year. We should've won.

Against Carlton we are always a chance, against Collingwood not so much.

The psychological butthole more like it

1 minute ago, ElDiablo14 said:

To be fair, we fared well against Carlton in the SF last year. We should've won.

Against Carlton we are always a chance, against Collingwood not so much.

I’m hearing you mate, but the reality is we still lost & have continued losing & it’s almost always comes down to the pressure of taking your chance to win and burry a game when the opportunity presents.

We just don’t seem to have the capacity to do so anymore. & I reckon teams know it. Their supporters know it & most importantly, our players know it now too…

Just now, RedLegs23 said:

I’m hearing you mate, but the reality is we still lost & have continued losing & it’s almost always comes down to the pressure of taking your chance to win and burry a game when the opportunity presents.

We just don’t seem to have the capacity to do so anymore. & I reckon teams know it. Their supporters know it & most importantly, our players know it now too…

Over to you Goodwin...

Bring back Byron 

Pies definitely have us on a leash. We are their (self censored as you know the word)

Goodwin record v Pies. Win 3  Loss 10

(Dees lost 6 of last 7) 

He seems incapable of understanding the Pies strengths. it’s their run and pace.  Our zone defence is unpicked each year by run and skills.  They have a rubber band backline with Crisp and Quaynor rebounding to Pendlebury / Daicos/ Sidebottom/Degoey to small forwards Elliott/Hill/mccreery. Rinse and repeat cycle. 

the record is 

2024R24   Dees 8.9 57 Pies 15.13 103

Pies by 46

2024R13 KB Pies 14.5 89 Dees 6.15 51

Pies by 38

2023QF Pies 9.6 60 Dees 7.11 53

Pies by 7

2023R13 QB Dees 8.18 66 Pies 9.8 62

Dees by 4 

2022R21 Dees 13.11 89 Pies 15.6 96

Pies by 7 

2022R13 QB Pies 12.10 82 Dees 8.8.56

Pies by 26

2021R13 QB Dees 9.9 63 Pies 11.14 80

Pies by 17

2020R12 QB Dees 16.4 100 Pies 6.8 44 at the Gabba 

Dees by 56

2019R21 Dees 7.11.53 Pies 10.10 70 

Pies by 17

2019R12 QB Pies 15.8 98 Dees 7.15.57

Pies by 41

2018R12 QB Dees 14.7.91 Pies 20.13 133

Pies by 42

2017R23 Pies 14.15 99 Dees 12.11 83

Pies by 16 

2017R12 Dees 15.14 104 Pies 15.10 100

Dees by 4 Watts kicks match winner !! 

Goodwin takes over as MFC senior coach 

 

2016R12 QB Dees 16.8 104 Pies 8.10 58

Dees by 46 

2016R4 Pies 9.13 67 Dees 16.6 102

Dees by 35

 

6 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Pies definitely have us on a leash. We are their (self censored as you know the word)

Goodwin record v Pies. Win 3  Loss 10

(Dees lost 6 of last 7) 

He seems incapable of understanding the Pies strengths. it’s their run and pace.  Our zone defence is unpicked each year by run and skills.  They have a rubber band backline with Crisp and Quaynor rebounding to Pendlebury / Daicos/ Sidebottom/Degoey to small forwards Elliott/Hill/mccreery. Rinse and repeat cycle. 

the record is 

2024R24   Dees 8.9 57 Pies 15.13 103

Pies by 46

2024R13 KB Pies 14.5 89 Dees 6.15 51

Pies by 38

2023QF Pies 9.6 60 Dees 7.11 53

Pies by 7

2023R13 QB Dees 8.18 66 Pies 9.8 62

Dees by 4 

2022R21 Dees 13.11 89 Pies 15.6 96

Pies by 7 

2022R13 QB Pies 12.10 82 Dees 8.8.56

Pies by 26

2021R13 QB Dees 9.9 63 Pies 11.14 80

Pies by 17

2020R12 QB Dees 16.4 100 Pies 6.8 44 at the Gabba 

Dees by 56

2019R21 Dees 7.11.53 Pies 10.10 70 

Pies by 17

2019R12 QB Pies 15.8 98 Dees 7.15.57

Pies by 41

2018R12 QB Dees 14.7.91 Pies 20.13 133

Pies by 42

2017R23 Pies 14.15 99 Dees 12.11 83

Pies by 16 

2017R12 Dees 15.14 104 Pies 15.10 100

Dees by 4 Watts kicks match winner !! 

Goodwin takes over as MFC senior coach 

 

2016R12 QB Dees 16.8 104 Pies 8.10 58

Dees by 46 

2016R4 Pies 9.13 67 Dees 16.6 102

Dees by 35

 

Something has to be done! 😤

6 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Pies definitely have us on a leash. We are their (self censored as you know the word)

Goodwin record v Pies. Win 3  Loss 10

(Dees lost 6 of last 7) 

He seems incapable of understanding the Pies strengths. it’s their run and pace.  Our zone defence is unpicked each year by run and skills.  They have a rubber band backline with Crisp and Quaynor rebounding to Pendlebury / Daicos/ Sidebottom/Degoey to small forwards Elliott/Hill/mccreery. Rinse and repeat cycle. 

the record is 

2024R24   Dees 8.9 57 Pies 15.13 103

Pies by 46

2024R13 KB Pies 14.5 89 Dees 6.15 51

Pies by 38

2023QF Pies 9.6 60 Dees 7.11 53

Pies by 7

2023R13 QB Dees 8.18 66 Pies 9.8 62

Dees by 4 

2022R21 Dees 13.11 89 Pies 15.6 96

Pies by 7 

2022R13 QB Pies 12.10 82 Dees 8.8.56

Pies by 26

2021R13 QB Dees 9.9 63 Pies 11.14 80

Pies by 17

2020R12 QB Dees 16.4 100 Pies 6.8 44 at the Gabba 

Dees by 56

2019R21 Dees 7.11.53 Pies 10.10 70 

Pies by 17

2019R12 QB Pies 15.8 98 Dees 7.15.57

Pies by 41

2018R12 QB Dees 14.7.91 Pies 20.13 133

Pies by 42

2017R23 Pies 14.15 99 Dees 12.11 83

Pies by 16 

2017R12 Dees 15.14 104 Pies 15.10 100

Dees by 4 Watts kicks match winner !! 

Goodwin takes over as MFC senior coach 

 

2016R12 QB Dees 16.8 104 Pies 8.10 58

Dees by 46 

2016R4 Pies 9.13 67 Dees 16.6 102

Dees by 35

 

Looking at some of these results and it’s crazy how accurate the Pies have been in some of our games.

On 23/08/2024 at 22:15, SPC said:

They play a style that destroys our zone, as do Freo. 

That is correct and Simon has no answer as he has not taught or brought this tean to play a high pressure game against the best teams for long periods of time during a match.

The fact that we've rarely brought AFL average pressure ratings in most matches is a clear indicator of how far off the best teams we are in this regard.

Against certain opponents, you need to be able to bring 1 v 1 early or in moments when the oppo starts to gain momentum In order to wrestle the game back on your terms.

And i'm not talking 1 v 1 across the park or for an entire match.  However it has to be there from the get go against highly rated and / or very in-form teams on key players and in areas of the ground (mostly corridor) when needed.

You can still have some players defendimg grass umder a 1 v 1 switch up scenario in areas of the ground you're happy to give away.  Generally skinny, not corridor.

It's also about how you position the structures around stoppage.  Particularly at the start of a match and again when the oppo get a run on.

Goodwin continues to insist on giving up a plus one around the ball against the better teams and instead almost always plays an extra behind the ball.

You can get away with that against mediocre or lessor teams.  Against the better teams or top liners you're gonna  get torched most of the time, especially when the oppo has a quality mid line up such as the Pies, the Blues, Port, the Swans and now the Hawks (at least when Will Day is in there).

Our mid line up is also still a little too one paced and lacks the capability to spread quickly and chain the ball away from stoppage very often with clean slick ball use.

We are a massive turnover team in this area, even under not much pressure.  When pressure gets turned up, well eveyone's witnessed where we're at here this season.

Hopefully the inclusion of Rivers might help here but we are also still one agile, speedy, classy finishing mid away from correcting this imho.  Hopefully we can trade this in over the off season.

Clarry back to his best would also be super handy as we need an alternate part time extractor to relieve Vines.

The off season trade and draft has to be about mids mids mids unless a real opportunity arises to snaffle someone like Waterman as a forward.

Someone like Waterman would be a good get.  At present most of our forwards, bar Melk & Tracc, are opportunists.  They aren't really going to win many 50/50 comtests unless it's delivered to them on a platter.

JVR might bring more of this in 25 but we need to move him out of the chop out ruck role to do so.

Smacca looks like a bust but with a full pre-season you never know.

Jeffo might slowly start to filter through as the season progresses but he'll need a huge pre-season in a muscle / frame sense and also with his follow up work at ground level.

There's much more than the above of course.  It's a tough game and you need solid drafts/trades plus alot of luck with injuries which we didn't have this season in a mid field sense (ie:  Gus, Clarry & then Tracc).

Edited August 25, 2024Aug 25 by Demon Dynasty

Those stats against The Filth are quite damming for Goody

His Gamestyle is stale, he has to introduce more run and carry into the team

2-3 players running together, creating options 

Watch the Finals, all teams will spread and create options (or at least try too!)

Fascinating discussion

we need tactical differentiation in game style vs certain teams 

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Those stats against The Filth are quite damming for Goody

His Gamestyle is stale, he has to introduce more run and carry into the team

2-3 players running together, creating options 

Watch the Finals, all teams will spread and create options (or at least try too!)

Time and time again players that did dash with the ball had no clear or open options, either in front of them or around them. On the other hand the Pies ran hard and found space all over.

The pies targeted Ed Langdon because he said they were “all duck no dinner”.  Petracca shook Maynard’s hand and tapped him on the bum after knocking Brayshaw out and he was medically retired.  Taking off my red and blue coloured glasses, that was the weakest, most spineless response by a professional team I can remember.  If Tom McDonald knocked out Pendles, he would have been hit all game.

if you continue to stand for nothing, you become nothing.  2021 with “selfless” the next three years was selfish.