10 hours ago, JTR said:

We're excelling in many other areas across the ground,

We really aren't.

8 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Goodwin butchered 2022. Played the same best 22 for weeks on end and refused to change up the team or rest players when the opportunity was there to do so. His management of the team that year was incredibly poor and it bit him in the [censored] in the end. That's on him.

2023 as you say we were cruelled by injuries at the wrong time of the year which I dont blame him for. His selection and coaching during the finals was utterly bizarre though.

Dropping an experienced Hibberd for the Carlton final and using a 200cm Josh Schache as the sub, to then not play him him..... Still doesn't make sense to this day.

2024 was a combination off field distractions and noise which i think just got too much for the club as a whole. Again, I dont put that down purely to Goodwins fault.

2025 is aimed 100% at Goodwin. 0-5 start, forward entries issues, selection integrity, fully fit list that still can't capitalise on the mix between experience and young talent.

He'll stay to 2026 even thoughI personally want him gone, but if he starts next year poorly, then he doesn't see the season out at all.

Yep 2022 was the one that got away

I think the other issue with regards to the new game style that we're trying to employ and what we've seen elsewhere, is it often requires an offense-minded coach

And Goodwin's fortè is the defence and all-over defence. I don't rate him on offense

But given that his contract keeps Goodwin employed at the MFC into next season, he'll need better assistants if we are to play finals next season

On the evidence we've seen so far this season, our offense stinks

So Chaplin & Jones should come under scrutiny

And we'll need to be proactive in the off-season with regards to the list

The current squad has quite a few holes in it and we've got too many set-in-their-ways types

So we've gone from all excited for a bounce-back season (this year) to fingers crossed on the road back to relevancy

44 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

Champion Data have said it's the most important stat in footy. So it definitely carries some importance.

But Daniel Hoyne has also said "there is no right or wrong, but it is all about the return that you are getting on the scoreboard from that method that you choose to implement".

So despite that, last year's premiers Brisbane were the fastest team in the comp last year.

Ball movement is about how quickly you move it from D50 to A50. So yes, it doesn't automatically mean goals but as this Fox Sports article notes (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2025-speed-of-ball-statistic-explained-every-team-ranked-from-fastest-to-slowest-afl-ball-movement-stats-champion-data-numbers-latest-news/news-story/8e4894d20931117b3a3311bf98ba3a51), "in general, the quicker you go, the more likely you are to score - every team scores more moving the ball quicker".

The important thing to note is "score" versus "kick goals". We don't have enough good finishers. Aside from Kozzy and Melksham, who can also be wildly inaccurate (see this season), we have too many mids and KPFs who cannot finish their work inside 50.

It's not a game style or ball moment problem, it's an accuracy problem. It's why Fritta's inaccuracy this year been super costly, because we don't have enough solid kicks inside.

I take what Champion Data say with a grain of salt. There is value in data and stats but it can't be looked at in isolation and it's never the entire story.

Quick ball movement in and of itself is pointless, Collingwood are one of the slowest ball movement teams, right? Yet they sit clear top of the ladder.

If a teams first instinct is to get the ball to boot and hoof it forward they will look exceptional by a "ball movement" metric. But if you are not retaining possession, are not hitting up leads, are not kicking it to the advantage of your forwards and ultimately not kicking goals the stat is useless.

I bemoan our inaccuracy as much as anyone but it's not the whole story. Yes we miss sitters that make you tear your hair out but we are not alone. Watch any game you'll see teams missing simple shots, Ben King missed two in the first quarter alone last week.

I just think holding onto this ball movement measure as some kind of sign that we're heading in the right direction or that Goodwin is doing anything that is that much different to previous years is foolhardy. The ball movement we saw against Freo with overlap handpass was good, the rebound off half back and taking the game on through the corridor against the Lions was good. Other than that it's been more long down the line, go down the wings kind of stuff.

The purpose of quick ball movement is to catch the opposition wrong footed when you are rebounding off half back and to deliver the footy into space in the forward line so forwards can mark the footy in good positions, preferably within 30m of goal. We sometimes mark the footy in good positions (angle wise) but rarely close enough to goal to make it an absolute gimme.

It feels like we're in a bad place at the moment. A fresh voice may give us an opportunity to reset. Goodwin seems incapable of getting this list challenging again and he won't survive a rebuild. He's been at the club now for over 10 years, that's a long time for anyone. It's time for a fresh start, the players need it and the supporters need it.

1 minute ago, Macca said:

Yep 2022 was the one that got away

I think the other issue with regards to the new game style that we're trying to employ and what we've seen elsewhere, is it often requires an offense-minded coach

And Goodwin's fortè is the defence and all-over defence. I don't rate him on offense

But given that his contract keeps Goodwin employed at the MFC into next season, he'll need better assistants if we are to play finals next season

On the evidence we've seen so far this season, our offense stinks

So Chaplin & Jones should come under scrutiny

And we'll need to be proactive in the off-season with regards to the list

The current squad has quite a few holes in it and we've got too many set-in-their-ways types

So we've gone from all excited for a bounce-back season (this year) to fingers crossed on the road back to relevancy

Personally I think we have chopped and changed enough assistant coaches over time.

Unlike others, I dont point the finger purely on Jones for our midfield woes. Its pretty much the exact issue and concern as it was last year and even 2023 as well.

McQualter and Yze need to cop some of the brunt as I dont believe the finger should be pointed at Jones alone. He needs time and im happy to bide him some of that.

I would have Tim Lamb in the gun ahead of Jones for instance. List management strategy has been woeful the past couple of years.

Edited Thursday at 12:122 days by dazzledavey36

31 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Goodwin butchered 2022. Played the same best 22 for weeks on end and refused to change up the team or rest players when the opportunity was there to do so. His management of the team that year was incredibly poor and it bit him in the [censored] in the end. That's on him.

2023 as you say we were cruelled by injuries at the wrong time of the year which I dont blame him for. His selection and coaching during the finals was utterly bizarre though.

Dropping an experienced Hibberd for the Carlton final and using a 200cm Josh Schache as the sub, to then not play him him..... Still doesn't make sense to this day.

2024 was a combination off field distractions and noise which i think just got too much for the club as a whole. Again, I dont put that down purely to Goodwins fault.

2025 is aimed 100% at Goodwin. 0-5 start, forward entries issues, selection integrity, fully fit list that still can't capitalise on the mix between experience and young talent.

He'll stay to 2026 even thoughI personally want him gone, but if he starts next year poorly, then he doesn't see the season out at all.

Good summary

10 hours ago, Macca said:

Yep, it's like we lack imagination when entering the f50 (or it's bombs away)

But is it that complicated?

Kicking the ball out in front of a leading forward doesn't seem like too big of an ask

Nevertheless, we don't do it

Even at suburban level, it's taken for granted that the mids will try and pass the ball to a leading forward

Heading into the forward line, we play unintelligent football

It's the whole setup, our forwards set up way too high so they can race back to goal trying to get kicks out the back. It doesn't work. They need to be leading up to the ball carrier. They need to spread, they need to lead, movement is a forwards best friend, ours are stagnant. Kicks to stagnant forwards are a defenders best friend.

And that's just looking at the forward structure, never mind selection such as JVR having his development destroyed by being forced to second ruck and having no real support when he does play forward. We bought in another ruck and refuse to play him, get Campbell to play 2nd ruck, be a big body up forward and let JVR settle in a key forward role for the rest of the season.

TMac was playing well in defense and then dropped. Petty is persisted with up forward despite being garbage. Turner can mark and kick and is wasted in defense. Windsor had a great debut on the wing yet we shift him to half back. Etc etc etc

On 01/07/2025 at 16:26, Young Blood said:

Fair enough, you're probably right and know more than i do.

Idk who knows more than whom (I can certainly hazard a guess) but what I do know is your style of relaying your opinion is pleasant to read, to a point where although I don’t agree with you on the main point (whether Goody should go), I take onboard and respect your reasons and the way in which you convey them, as opposed to just banging on week in and week out with ‘Pack your things, Simon. Your game-plan sucks,’ (of course, that’s merely an example) among many other mind-numbingly tiresome comments.

8 hours ago, Deestinga2 said:

Macca, not having a go at you mate, but when was the last time you sighted one of our supposed key forwards leading towards the kicker????

Our forwards seem to want to take the easy way out, long kicks over the back, easy run into goal. The biggest culprit for this is Fritsch, he can make space but chooses not to.

Would also help if our forwards didnt all lead or stand in the same spot.

Our mids are sometimes left with no choice but to bomb it in long, or they just have to stand with the ball and wait to be tackled.

Agree, which comes back to coaching.

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Personally I think we have chopped and changed enough assistant coaches over time.

Unlike others, I dont point the finger at Jones for our midfield woes. Its pretty much the exact issue and concern as it was last year and even 2023 as well.

McQualter and Yze need to cop some of the brunt as I dont believe the finer should be pointed at Jones alone. He needs time and im happy to bide him some of that.

I would have Tim Lamb in the gum ahead of Jones for instance. List management strategy has been woeful the past couple of years.

Yeah, I see the assistants as expendable and it's nothing personal either. Zero sentiment

We need change in the FD and it won't be Goodwin* gone anytime before 6 or 8 games into next season (at a minimum)

That might change if we lose all our remaining games and cop 4 or 5 thumpings ... but we've got enough talent to ensure that that won't happen. At a guess I reckon we'll finish on about 8 wins

The other real talking point we'll be with regards to the trade table. I see it going 3 possible ways

1 - We back in the list to somehow turn things around (possibly)

2 - A reasonable amount of movement with 1 or 2 'name' players heading elsewhere (probably)

3 - A lot of movement where we end up revamping or revitalising the list. A domino effect once 1 or 2 players get traded (a possibility that I quite like)

*Goodwin's contract keeps him at the Demons into next season

17 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I take what Champion Data say with a grain of salt. There is value in data and stats but it can't be looked at in isolation and it's never the entire story.

Quick ball movement in and of itself is pointless, Collingwood are one of the slowest ball movement teams, right? Yet they sit clear top of the ladder.

If a teams first instinct is to get the ball to boot and hoof it forward they will look exceptional by a "ball movement" metric. But if you are not retaining possession, are not hitting up leads, are not kicking it to the advantage of your forwards and ultimately not kicking goals the stat is useless.

I bemoan our inaccuracy as much as anyone but it's not the whole story. Yes we miss sitters that make you tear your hair out but we are not alone. Watch any game you'll see teams missing simple shots, Ben King missed two in the first quarter alone last week.

I just think holding onto this ball movement measure as some kind of sign that we're heading in the right direction or that Goodwin is doing anything that is that much different to previous years is foolhardy. The ball movement we saw against Freo with overlap handpass was good, the rebound off half back and taking the game on through the corridor against the Lions was good. Other than that it's been more long down the line, go down the wings kind of stuff.

The purpose of quick ball movement is to catch the opposition wrong footed when you are rebounding off half back and to deliver the footy into space in the forward line so forwards can mark the footy in good positions, preferably within 30m of goal. We sometimes mark the footy in good positions (angle wise) but rarely close enough to goal to make it an absolute gimme.

It feels like we're in a bad place at the moment. A fresh voice may give us an opportunity to reset. Goodwin seems incapable of getting this list challenging again and he won't survive a rebuild. He's been at the club now for over 10 years, that's a long time for anyone. It's time for a fresh start, the players need it and the supporters need it.

You have a point but I'm not quite with you.

Yes, speed of ball movement has to be analysed carefully with a bunch of other factors. Fremantle is a genuine top 4 contender despite being far and away the slowest ball movement side in the competition. We're a bottom 4 contender despite being tied for the fastest ball movement side in the competition.

But we have clearly changed how we play because we haven't rated this fast before. Hoyne's said it on his radio gig this year. We used to be slower.

Some have said "oh well we're only fast because we dump kick it 50m direct to goal and turn it over". The data in the article you've linked shows that isn't the case. We are the fastest side in the competition when measuring how fast we dispose of it once we get it. We are also bang on AFL average, 100, for "distance to goal", which measures nothing but metres towards goal. So if our speed was being driven by dump 50m kicks, we'd be higher in that third category and probably slower in the others.

Of course, speed doesn't say anything about scoring, or disposal efficiency, or turnovers/clangers, or literally anything else. It just tells us how sides try to move the ball, and it tells us that we are moving it quicker than almost anyone.

That is a provable way in which Goodwin has changed how we play. We never used to be like this.

But we aren't making it work right now. Not only are we not scoring enough, we are getting opened up behind the ball in ways which 2021-23 Melbourne never would.

There's no point going this fast if we can't make it work, and I'm not convinced by anyone who says "all we have to do is give this time and it'll come together". We are so devoid of foot skills and forward 50 marking options on our list that there's every chance we just cannot make this sort of speed work.

2 hours ago, Macca said:

No, I'm just evening the score as people like you keep protecting the players as if they can do no nothing wrong

In fact, it's quite amazing how much stock is placed on the coach

Strange how we never blamed RDB or Roos when they kept losing games

Even Neeld copped very little (as compared to Goodwin)

The players are not blameless, they cop it plenty especially if you dare venture into any gameday thread.

BUT they are also playing to instructions (or presumably they are) and ultimately it is easier to change one coach than change 20 or 30 players.

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's the whole setup, our forwards set up way too high so they can race back to goal trying to get kicks out the back. It doesn't work. They need to be leading up to the ball carrier. They need to spread, they need to lead, movement is a forwards best friend, ours are stagnant. Kicks to stagnant forwards are a defenders best friend.

And that's just looking at the forward structure, never mind selection such as JVR having his development destroyed by being forced to second ruck and having no real support when he does play forward. We bought in another ruck and refuse to play him, get Campbell to play 2nd ruck, be a big body up forward and let JVR settle in a key forward role for the rest of the season.

TMac was playing well in defense and then dropped. Petty is persisted with up forward despite being garbage. Turner can mark and kick and is wasted in defense. Windsor had a great debut on the wing yet we shift him to half back. Etc etc etc

Yeah, I agree with a lot of what you've got to say. T-Mac could have been retained as the sub for a bit of versatility

They are probably trying to teach Windsor to be accountable using him off HB but we lost his pace and burst as a consequence

Our offense in general has been well talked about but the fact that it's still a conversation is frustrating. We should have moved on from the long bombs long ago. We're still stuck in amateur hour

Not sure on JVR but he's got some raw talent that might come to fruition

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The players are not blameless, they cop it plenty especially if you dare venture into any gameday thread.

BUT they are also playing to instructions (or presumably they are) and ultimately it is easier to change one coach than change 20 or 30 players.

Not sure it's a 20 or 30 player problem, Gonzo. More like 12-13 but that includes about 6 or 7 that are heading for delistment

It's a different conversation if our forwards lead to the ball carrier with Clarrie, Petracca & Viney all lowering their eyes when entering the F50 by foot

In a nutshell, JVR, Petty & Fritsch won't lead to the ball carriers and Petracca, Viney & Clarrie blaze away with their kicks forward

Fix those 6 players and we are more than halfway there

33 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Some have said "oh well we're only fast because we dump kick it 50m direct to goal and turn it over". The data in the article you've linked shows that isn't the case. We are the fastest side in the competition when measuring how fast we dispose of it once we get it. We are also bang on AFL average, 100, for "distance to goal", which measures nothing but metres towards goal. So if our speed was being driven by dump 50m kicks, we'd be higher in that third category and probably slower in the others.

I just read that article now (I didn't link it it was in the post I quoted). TBH I can't make out exactly what it tells us about our ball movement.

We are first in the league for speed (123) we are putting distance on the ball when we dispose of it (113 which is above the 100 standard but only around average vs the rest of the league in the middle 6 teams) but we are in the bottom 6 teams as far as the Distance to Goal measure is concerned (100).

So we are the quickest at disposing of the ball when we get it, we are getting plenty of distance on the ball but we are in the bottom third of teams as far as moving it direct to goal. That doesn't feel like it translates to what I see watching us play but will keep it in mind when watching this Sunday and next week live at the G. I also don't really know what it tells us about how we are trying to move the ball as it doesn't feel like we're switching play at speed either.

Id be interested in our ratings in specific games, how did we rate in the Freo, Lions, Swans and Pies games vs the Port, Suns (X2) Bombers games - and not just as an overall score but broken down into the three metrics.

I guess the numbers could say that we throw the ball around like a hot potato before ultimately kicking forward but again doesn't feel like that translates to what we see week to week.

Edited Thursday at 12:542 days by Dr. Gonzo

22 minutes ago, Macca said:

Not sure it's a 20 or 30 player problem, Gonzo. More like 12-13 but that includes about 6 or 7 that are heading for delistment

It's a different conversation if our forwards lead to the ball carrier with Clarrie, Petracca & Viney all lowering their eyes when entering the F50 by foot

In a nutshell, JVR, Petty & Fritsch won't lead to the ball carriers and Petracca, Viney & Clarrie blaze away with their kicks forward

Fix those 6 players and we are more than halfway there

Agree and although a lot of it falls on our mids and their disposal I think the real issue is our forward setup and structure (ie leading patterns etc).

Open forward lines with good movement and forwards that lead make midfielders look they have elite disposal. A large part of our issues come back to coaching.

7 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Agree and although a lot of it falls on our mids and their disposal I think the real issue is our forward setup and structure (ie leading patterns etc).

Open forward lines with good movement and forwards that lead make midfielders look they have elite disposal. A large part of our issues come back to coaching.

Yep, Goodwin has had enough time to fix our forward structure with regards to systems & personnel

And our players should also have the wherewithal to know how to carry out simple instructions (forwards on the lead along with efficient kicks entering the 50)

And to be fair, in the recent past, we've drafted 2 x top 20 picks where we attained JVR & Jefferson. With neither having much impact, especially of late

But we've had a taste of how efficient we can be with the Freo & Lions wins

In between and since, we've had the yips in front of goal, slow starts and old habits have returned

The Pies from 60 metres out nearly always look confident & dangerous ... by contrast, when we're 60 metres from goal there's often a feeling of apprehension as in what happens next?

Edited Thursday at 13:442 days by Macca

On 01/07/2025 at 15:41, Young Blood said:

I still feel like our fitness is the concern with us dropping off in games more then we used to with energy/effort. That was always our staple over the last four or so years.

Yeah we weren't rock solid going into this season at all, didn't seem we were pushed to the limits.

That could be a by-product of knowing you haven't got the cattle to be in contention also.

Standards drop slightly when the belief in your team mates isn't there.

Selwyn needs to be looked at very seriously.

But in saying that our injury record is fantastic so I would give him a tick in that regard.

12 hours ago, Macca said:

No, I'm just evening the score as people like you keep protecting the players as if they can do no nothing wrong

In fact, it's quite amazing how much stock is placed on the coach

Strange how we never blamed RDB or Roos when they kept losing games

Even Neeld copped very little (as compared to Goodwin)

Um Barrass had a very average list to work with but as history proved, many of those players went on to form the nucleus of the hugely entertaining and wonderful Northey era. Roos instilled belief into a shattered and fragmented group and did a great job. Dean Bailey was nobbled by a power hungry inner retinue and average player list. Neeld was one of the worst coaching appiontments ever in the history of the MFC. Now that leaves Simon Goodwin, who coached us to a memorable premiership and since then has overseen the most dramatic decline of a team I can remember.

Edited Thursday at 21:451 day by picket fence

So we are saying that the review failed to identify the issues?

Lets have another one!

The leadership at board level at this club is an ongoing joke

If they had any idea they would be developing and instituting a rceovery strategy

Crickets Chirping

Dont start me on Presidents and CEOs who are so late in taking part as to be irrelevant

The club needs strategy and leadership now

The players and coach performance is the result of poor club management

So we wait until October then what?

Oh know we will have another review lead by some corporate loser

All this to protect a very poorly performing board

No wonder people are voting with their feet

9 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I just read that article now (I didn't link it it was in the post I quoted). TBH I can't make out exactly what it tells us about our ball movement.

We are first in the league for speed (123) we are putting distance on the ball when we dispose of it (113 which is above the 100 standard but only around average vs the rest of the league in the middle 6 teams) but we are in the bottom 6 teams as far as the Distance to Goal measure is concerned (100).

So we are the quickest at disposing of the ball when we get it, we are getting plenty of distance on the ball but we are in the bottom third of teams as far as moving it direct to goal. That doesn't feel like it translates to what I see watching us play but will keep it in mind when watching this Sunday and next week live at the G. I also don't really know what it tells us about how we are trying to move the ball as it doesn't feel like we're switching play at speed either.

Id be interested in our ratings in specific games, how did we rate in the Freo, Lions, Swans and Pies games vs the Port, Suns (X2) Bombers games - and not just as an overall score but broken down into the three metrics.

I guess the numbers could say that we throw the ball around like a hot potato before ultimately kicking forward but again doesn't feel like that translates to what we see week to week.

Again... and not just to annoy Binman this is why stats are rubbish , misleading and erroneous.

We're supposedly this that and the other and all of it is spurious as a lot of what we do is ineffectual.

Ffs it's what you do with the bloody ball. There are umpteen nuances exits with a ball on any given play. Most are sliding door moments... a split second this way or that equates to two very ( at least 2 ) different outcomes. But stats always homogenise. It's not just a matter of attempting to quantify/qualify what we're doing at the time but you have to temper/ adjust what the circumstances are/were in terms of any opponents actions. The variables are exponential really.

Strangely , to my mind, your ability to interpret much of this is actually quite good by eye. You get a reasonable appreciation of ' that was easy/hard/ lucky/ brilliant' etc

How many times do we sit watching a game frustrated when we see the moves required but the players take a soft or worse stupid course. But the stats rack up .

I still think we are very capable as observers of deducing the efficiency of play . Speed isn't everything. Effect is. Tempo is the most misunderstood quality in play in my judgement. Clever players micro adjust ; it's not just bang whack, slap the ball. If you play like that you'll be hammered by more skilled teams.

Sound familar

22 hours ago, JTR said:

Have a read here if you are interested.
It explains the various metrics, what they mean and how all teams stack up in each of the criteria.

This is interesting.

Having watched the explanation, I can easily believe we're close to top in this measurement.

A team that has a tendency to turn and just kick, and specifically to turn and kick long into the forward fifty will naturally get higher scores. The Mark O'Connor kick at 4.45 and again at 5.30 is very Melbourne. Very Oliver and Viney, to be specific. (The Tom Stewart kick that precedes the first one is extremely UN-Melbourne.)

It seems like the point is move it fast, don't give the opposition time to get back or set up defensively and give your tall forwards a chance to have genuine one on one contest. Or, ideally, hit a forward lace out with a two-second-to-make-a-decision bullet. The first makes sense. For us, the second only works if the last kick is always from Kozzie.

I see how this is a useful indication of the big change in the way we play. Although I think this change is pretty obvious without "metrics" to underscore it. I'm not so sure that this is something we should see as a positive in and of itself.

Of course, go the way the game is going. But, at least in part, what this measurement rewards is precisely the stuff that makes most Melbourne supporters tear their hair out.

1 hour ago, jackaub said:

So we are saying that the review failed to identify the issues?

Lets have another one!

The leadership at board level at this club is an ongoing joke

If they had any idea they would be developing and instituting a rceovery strategy

Crickets Chirping

Dont start me on Presidents and CEOs who are so late in taking part as to be irrelevant

The club needs strategy and leadership now

The players and coach performance is the result of poor club management

So we wait until October then what?

Oh know we will have another review lead by some corporate loser

All this to protect a very poorly performing board

No wonder people are voting with their feet

Astute post!

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Um Barrass had a very average list to work with but as history proved, many of those players went on to form the nucleus of the hugely entertaining and wonderful Northey era. Roos instilled belief into a shattered and fragmented group and did a great job. Dean Bailey was nobbled by a power hungry inner retinue and average player list. Neeld was one of the worst coaching appiontments ever in the history of the MFC. Now that leaves Simon Goodwin, who coached us to a memorable premiership and since then has overseen the most dramatic decline of a team I can remember.

Could be that all our experienced good players are past their peak (or well past their peak)

1 hour ago, jackaub said:

So we are saying that the review failed to identify the issues?

Lets have another one!

The leadership at board level at this club is an ongoing joke

If they had any idea they would be developing and instituting a rceovery strategy

Crickets Chirping

Dont start me on Presidents and CEOs who are so late in taking part as to be irrelevant

The club needs strategy and leadership now

The players and coach performance is the result of poor club management

So we wait until October then what?

Oh know we will have another review lead by some corporate loser

All this to protect a very poorly performing board

No wonder people are voting with their feet

Bravo....

It strikes me as a classic case of interim/caretakers not wanting to stir or muddy waters lest they end up part of washup themselves.

Hate to say this but we lack the backbone that a successful org needs. We're just too NICE a mob. It does run like a boys club, not an accountable business. Do these people really strive for success or is it more about cozy cloisters ? A great place to hobnob and network ?

There was a sense of hunger before 21.. none now...

Carry on chaps... pass the cheese and Shiraz

Edited Thursday at 23:381 day by beelzebub

15 minutes ago, Macca said:

Could be that all our experienced good players are past their peak (or well past their peak)

I'd agree... and will be further wasted if we don't change path.. just my opinion.... of course