20 minutes ago, William said:

Can the current team and coaching strategy prepare us for another premiership? Answer: No chance.

Whether the senior coach was instrumental in the final success of 2021 is moot. A plausible narrative is that he inherited a legacy from Paul Roos and a lot of maturing first-round picks and we won that flag despite the coach.

But the reality is whatever the causality was then, the trajectory has been downhill since notwithstanding the two residual final appearances that followed. Last year we finished 5th last, less wins than losses and a percentage below 100.

This year we have deteriorated further and are a long way from the performance I see in the top teams at present.

I hear that it ‘takes time for the new plan to bed in’ story line. How long? They have had months to ‘bed it in’. Are the players that unskilled and lacking in nous that they cannot change their playing strategy after months?

What I see each week from the stands is a team that lacks essential skills - kicking is often poor, marking terrible in some key situations (like JVR - our alleged key forward), missed tackles, lacking pace, etc.

I see habitual mistakes in selection - last week was classic - the forward line was an embarrassment. Why did they think selecting JVR and MJ and BF and CS would kick a winning score is beyond me. None of those players are, in my view, currently up to AFL standard, yet the senior coach keeps giving them opportunities.

I am also worried that the new younger players that definitely have talent will be undermined by the coaching staff in the same way that those who have gone before them have - for example, some here think that JVR is a star with massive potential. I don’t. But whatever is the fact, he is unselectable now and cannot exhibit basic skills required to play the game (like holding a mark once in a while). So even if the conjecture that is did have massive potential is valid, he is now a total liability and that must be down to the way he has been coached either in technical and/or psychological terms.

So all that says to me, that it is time to rethink the football strategy - clear out the coaching ranks, delist some of the players that will not be part of the next premiership and be patient while the newcomers mature and take us up the ladder.

Had just messaged a friend with:

"Yes... would we be maverick we'd call Melbourne ( as is ) .. call it a day , and make wholesale changes . Both FD ..and list.

There would be those that would scream ' you can't do that' ...all's the while providing no real evidence of why not.

Not much precedent but you could.

Enter 26 as a totally rebooted, reinvigorated, repurposed and redesigned team.

I'd do it in a blink"

Essentially mirrors your thinking.

I'm not equivocating, we need to prune the rose bush as you do prune a rose bush. Only then can it grow and bloom.

If we just stuff around with bandaids nothing will change much.

The window closed end of 23.

The man who in my estimation truly won us the flag should have been given the keys end of 23. He wasn't, he's gone.

Melbourne needs to reinvent itself.

Do the same [censored].... get the same result.

On 30/04/2025 at 21:35, Hopeful Demon said:

Borderline narcissistic to thumbs down or vomit every comment without ever actually providing any counter arguments

Your definition of narcissistic is completely different fo mine, borderline or otherwise.

No poster is obliged to comment… ever.

Everyone is free to react to any post as they see fit. Not everyone wants to explain the reason for their reaction, nor should they be cajoled into doing so.

Edited Tuesday at 01:095 days by Ghostwriter

I agree it is time for a change with Goodwin, or soon at least

However, tactically Goodwin did well against the Hawks. Which has been the biggest knock on him.

If we kicked straight we would have been up by 5 goals at 3/4 time.

The issues were kicking for goal and failing to run out the game. Some of which falls on Goodwin and some of which falls on the fitness staff and the players themselves

Do I blame Goodwin because a 29yo player like Fritsch missed 2 easy goals? No I do not. They are professional players, they should all be able to kick for goal as a minimum requirement and practice more if they need it

56 minutes ago, William said:

Can the current team and coaching strategy prepare us for another premiership? Answer: No chance.

Whether the senior coach was instrumental in the final success of 2021 is moot. A plausible narrative is that he inherited a legacy from Paul Roos and a lot of maturing first-round picks and we won that flag despite the coach.

This is not a plausible narrative. Goodwin has been Senior Coach for 4 years prior to the flag, making all key decisions.

In his first match, there were only 8 of the premiership players in the team. Blokes likes Billy Stretch, Watts, Weid, Hannan playing. You act as if this was Chris Scott taking over a premiership team! We hadn't made finals for 10 years.

Roos did a great job taking us from a basket case to a decent, well run team.

Make no mistake, Simon Goodwin was instrumental in our flag and to state otherwise is disrespectful and foolish.

19 minutes ago, DubDee said:

The issues were kicking for goal and failing to run out the game. Some of which falls on Goodwin and some of which falls on the fitness staff and the players themselves

I actually reckon that we are failing to run out games because we are not yet used to our new style of play.

I'm not really interested in the question of how much credit Goodwin deserves for the flag. The fact is he was the coach when we won it and deserves the respect that affords him.

The question is whether he's the person to take us forward. To that question I'm firmly in the 'no' camp. This club feels desperate for the clear air that a new coach can bring.

32 minutes ago, Ghostwriter said:

Your definition of narcissistic is completely different fo mine, borderline or otherwise.

No poster is obliged to comment… ever.

Everyone is free to react to any post as they see fit. Not everyone wants to explain the reason for their reaction, nor should they be cajoled into doing so.

My view is, if you don't have the gumption to post a comment and speak your mind, then keep your negative reactions to yourself. It's gutless.

3 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Aged well..... just sayin'

Do you at least accept the derision is somewhat justified ? Just askin'

We had 'em, oph boy we had 'em. I thought we played good footy for 3 quarters and bar our goal kicking I thought we should have been 5 goals up. Oh well, now for Brisbane.

12 minutes ago, Tony Tea said:

I actually reckon that we are failing to run out games because we are not yet used to our new style of play.

I just don't how they're mutually dependent.

Playing out a game is simply fitness.

3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I just don't how they're mutually dependent.

Playing out a game is simply fitness.

But how hard you work depends on the game plan. A new plan means players getting caught out of position and either they have to work harder to get into position or someone else has to work harder to cover. Cumulatively everyone is doing more than they would otherwise need to and that takes a toll.

We looked gassed at the end of the 3rd, Disco and McVee playing keepings off to waste the last couple of minutes was to try and save something for the last but we didn’t have it.

23 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

I'm not really interested in the question of how much credit Goodwin deserves for the flag. The fact is he was the coach when we won it and deserves the respect that affords him.

The question is whether he's the person to take us forward. To that question I'm firmly in the 'no' camp. This club feels desperate for the clear air that a new coach can bring.

A most salient observation

That was then, this is now.

Now.... not so good

10 minutes ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

But how hard you work depends on the game plan. A new plan means players getting caught out of position and either they have to work harder to get into position or someone else has to work harder to cover. Cumulatively everyone is doing more than they would otherwise need to and that takes a toll.

We looked gassed at the end of the 3rd, Disco and McVee playing keepings off to waste the last couple of minutes was to try and save something for the last but we didn’t have it.

I think McVee is yet to find form, he's been a big loss this year.

5 minutes ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

But how hard you work depends on the game plan. A new plan means players getting caught out of position and either they have to work harder to get into position or someone else has to work harder to cover. Cumulatively everyone is doing more than they would otherwise need to and that takes a toll.

We looked gassed at the end of the 3rd, Disco and McVee playing keepings off to waste the last couple of minutes was to try and save something for the last but we didn’t have it.

I do kinda get the argument. I honestly don't think the validity of workloads is as great as being painted. You're just working as hard with lesser results.

I will concede there may be more of a mental exhaustion effect as opposed a physical one. And that's not to be quickly dismissed imho.

Becomes draining chasing your tail.

I'm inclined personally to favour Occam's Razor.. and simply the inability to run out games is predominantly and simply fitness.

Happy to be 'corrected' could it be shown otherwise.

2 hours ago, biggestred said:

okay but where are we going to get a 3 time premiership coach from?

Macrae wasn’t when he took the reins at Collingwood, everyone starts somewhere. Let’s nab a Pies or GWS assistant or similar.

35 minutes ago, Tony Tea said:

I actually reckon that we are failing to run out games because we are not yet used to our new style of play.

Surely with a more run & carry game plan, would come with more extreme fitness campaign in the preseason

Edited Tuesday at 02:215 days by Billy

1 minute ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Macrae wasn’t when he took the reins at Collingwood, everyone starts somewhere. Let’s nab a Pies or GWS assistant or similar.

Someone like an Andrew McQualter?

I genuinely wonder how he would do at the demons. Is it just WC that are broken?

7 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

I think McVee is yet to find form, he's been a big loss this year.

That's been a Goodwin's trademark for several years. Rush back players into the firsts who are either unfit or out of form or both.

39 minutes ago, BDA said:

My view is, if you don't have the gumption to post a comment and speak your mind, then keep your negative reactions to yourself. It's gutless.

I acknowledge your view but the last thing this site needs is more people not engaging in any capacity whatsoever. There’s an undeniable drop-off in numbers in terms of people engaging on this site. Some people are comfortable just reacting, favourably or not. Reaction emojis are there for a reason.

30 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

We had 'em, oph boy we had 'em. I thought we played good footy for 3 quarters and bar our goal kicking I thought we should have been 5 goals up. Oh well, now for Brisbane.

A win ( against the tide ) would do wonders.

I don't know about you RIF but even in crappy games I like to see snippets of hope. Little signs things might not be too far off. I'm just not seeing many. It's a bit 2 steps forward ( Lindsay and Langford ) and 3 steps back.. Roo, Fritta... and you could pick the 3rd from half a dozen really :(

Being competitive for 3 out of 4 qtrs.. what can you say. Was talking this game to b-i-l before . We have to be 4/5 goals up at 3 qtr time... or else.

Many are saying Brisbane not as good as made out to be. Exactly the same muttering prior to last week. That went well 😞

You can only play the team that presents to you. Each side requires a slightly different approach. Conversely it seems anyone playing us knows EXACTLY how to beat us.

I'm thinking there's a very simple ( Simon) reason for that ....

30 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I do kinda get the argument. I honestly don't think the validity of workloads is as great as being painted. You're just working as hard with lesser results.

I will concede there may be more of a mental exhaustion effect as opposed a physical one. And that's not to be quickly dismissed imho.

Becomes draining chasing your tail.

I'm inclined personally to favour Occam's Razor.. and simply the inability to run out games is predominantly and simply fitness.

Happy to be 'corrected' could it be shown otherwise.

Agree we’re not fit enough, but it’s not the whole story. I do think we need a new fitness staff.

1 hour ago, Ghostwriter said:

I acknowledge your view but the last thing this site needs is more people not engaging in any capacity whatsoever. There’s an undeniable drop-off in numbers in terms of people engaging on this site. Some people are comfortable just reacting, favourably or not. Reaction emojis are there for a reason.

Is the drop off in numbers engaging due to abuse or the fact we're not winning atm?

9 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Is the drop off in numbers engaging due to abuse or the fact we're not winning atm?

In my opinion the suffocating negativity and pessimism is doing it. For some folks coming on here is too difficult due to that, as well as the attendant bitchiness, especially is there’s other challenges in life going on at the same time.

Not winning is another reason, of course. I joined in April 2021 when the going was great but even then the snarky comments were there but not to the degree with which they now abound.

2 hours ago, Tony Tea said:

I actually reckon that we are failing to run out games because we are not yet used to our new style of play.

You can add Selwyn Griffith to the list of names that should be moved on, IMO.

2 hours ago, Billy said:

Surely with a more run & carry game plan, would come with more extreme fitness campaign in the preseason

Possibly. But I would have thought you'd need at least a season, probably more, to reconfigure your fitness.

25 minutes ago, Ghostwriter said:

In my opinion the suffocating negativity and pessimism is doing it. For some folks coming on here is too difficult due to that, as well as the attendant bitchiness, especially is there’s other challenges in life going on at the same time.

Not winning is another reason, of course. I joined in April 2021 when the going was great but even then the snarky comments were there but not to the degree with which they now abound.

Some of us have been on these boards from this incarnation back through ....well.... back a hell of a long time... I.e a long time,far too long some might mischievously suggest lol. And they might be right. I took a sabatical ( for my own sanity. It may have aided others also 😆😆 )

We come here for various reasons, with our opinions and gripes. We ALL Demon tragic ( save a number of trolls..... we know who you are btw )

We all welcome the different views, experiences and perspectives. Yes it can be hard yakka at times especially when frustrations set in.

I think the old sage advice of Nil desperandum carborundum always applies.

( don't let the bastards wear you down )

We all crave success for the club.

I'm sure many in the club charged with providing that success think they are the ones to do so.

However history can be a rather unbridled and indifferent teacher. Those that don't learn from it are doomed to repeat it.

The club needs to look hard and dispassionately at where we sit currently and at what page of history is open.

Decisions and choices need to be made, and made sooner rather than later lest the Groundhog visits.

Go Dees