37 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

“Boring” is one word for it, I guess.

Macca, might I kindly suggest that if you’re so vehemently of the opinion that Goodwin is not the problem (or at least a significant part of it) then this thread might not be for you?

I know Macca and I will probably never see eye to eye on Mr Goodwin, but I do like reading other's viewpoints. That and he is like many of us a dyed in the wool Demon tragic.

I wish our problems were otherwise.

47 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

“Boring” is one word for it, I guess.

Macca, might I kindly suggest that if you’re so vehemently of the opinion that Goodwin is not the problem (or at least a significant part of it) then this thread might not be for you?

Are you serious?

I'm of the opinion that the issues we have are not confined to Goodwin

And 3 times already I have made mention that we might have a messaging issue

Do you want to tell @bing181 to stay away from the thread as well

Whatever happened to free speech? You don't like debate? Haha!

25 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I know Macca and I will probably never see eye to eye on Mr Goodwin, but I do like reading other's viewpoints. That and he is like many of us a dyed in the wool Demon tragic.

I wish our problems were otherwise.

Thanks Bub

You're like me, you don't hold grudges

Like I've always said ... He who holds a grudge, suffers most

And I took @Mel Bourne 's comments in good faith ... it might look like I'm a Goodwin fan but I'm really not

I just refuse to believe that all our issues are the fault of one person

Felt the same way with Neeld ... the club back then was a complete mess

Edited Tuesday at 07:232 days by Macca

8 minutes ago, Macca said:

Are you serious?

I'm of the opinion that the issues we have are not confined to Goodwin

And 3 times already I have made mention that we might have a messaging issue

Do you want to tell @bing181 to stay away from the thread as well

Whatever happened to free speech? You don't like debate? Haha!

Totally agree in so much as our problems are not confined to Goodwin. Some players need a good long look in the mirror. The stewardship of the club is wanting... imho.

9 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Totally agree in so much as our problems are not confined to Goodwin. Some players need a good long look in the mirror. The stewardship of the club is wanting... imho.

There are issues within the playing group in my opinion Hard to know exactly what it is but we could put 2 and 2 together or join the dots

We've seen it before too. Right now it looks like it's the coaching but the lack of response and the lack of effort is on the players

My view is that the players are ruling the roost again and the coach's message is falling on deaf ears

The Cats will be wanting an easy kill and I just hope the players at least turn up this week

The problem with these discussions is that you have to criticise players who are people and have feelings. But then they are on high pay relative to the rest of the workforce and should be accountable.

The senior coach should never have been renewed. He is inflexible in his thinking and after we won the premiership, rival teams started working us out, which is why it has been downhill since until now when we have reached near rock bottom (two 10 goal losses to teams that were below us - particularly North).

He also picks favourites.

He kept playing Spargo who cannot kick further than 30 metres and is slow off the mark and the consequence of that is we lost Jordan and Bedford to other clubs and they have become very good players, much better than Spargo. If Spargo had not been injured, the coach would not have played Chandler who at least can mark and tackles well. So he probably would have been lost.

On the marking issue - the coach keeps playing JVR who has a marking to attempt ratio of close to zero and that is not because Viney bombs it in all the time. He just cannot hold marks and is often out of position anyway. He is similar to Sam Weideman - high draft pick but ultimately not up to it. And he has been around long enough to demonstrate his hyped super talent. We were lucky to have Ben Brown in 2021 but he became injury prone and aged and so that bright spot didn’t last long.

And then there is the most selfish player in the team Fritsch who should be delisted.

How can the coach keep playing these poor performers and hope to improve our prospects.

The reason is that the depth below them has been hollowed out by players leaving and poor recruitment.

But surely the senior coach has to ultimately take the responsibility for the decisions of the football department.

He should resign gracefully and be known as a premiership coach.

30 minutes ago, Macca said:

There are issues within the playing group in my opinion Hard to know exactly what it is but we could put 2 and 2 together or join the dots

We've seen it before too. Right now it looks like it's the coaching but the lack of response and the lack of effort is on the players

My view is that the players are ruling the roost again and the coach's message is falling on deaf ears

The Cats will be wanting an easy kill and I just hope the players at least turn up this week

If the Players are ruling the roost, if that is true, then this Friday should be Goodwin’s (and his assistants) last game at the MFC….

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

If the Players are ruling the roost, if that is true, then this Friday should be Goodwin’s (and his assistants) last game at the MFC….

So you'd side with the players?

Did you side with the players with '186'?

Did you blame Dean Bailey? (RIP)

I believe we've got an issue with the messaging but it's not necessarily the fault of the coach

There could be all sorts of reasons but one thing is for sure, it doesn't look like the message is getting through

• The players have tuned out or just aren't listening

• The players don't like the delivery or the person delivering the message

• The players don't like the message

• The message is the wrong message

• The players have decided that they are going to call the shots

• The coach's delivery style has no impact

• The players are too set in their ways and can't change and therefore, they don't want to change

Etc etc etc

Wasn't 186 a protest against Schwab? Yet Dean took the blow and CS got the contract extension (the next day)

What we didn't know was that '186' was just the start

Things got worse the next year and even worse the year after

Edited Tuesday at 08:361 day by Macca

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

So you'd side with the players?

Did you side with the players with '186'?

Did you blame Dean Bailey? (RIP)

I believe we've got an issue with the messaging but it's not necessarily the fault of the coach

There could be all sorts of reasons but one thing is for sure, it doesn't look like the message is getting through

• The players have tuned out or just aren't listening

• The players don't like the delivery or the person delivering the message

• The players don't like the message

• The message is the wrong message

• The players have decided that they are going to call the shots

• The coach's delivery style has no impact

• The players are too set in their ways and can't change and therefore, they don't want to change

Etc etc etc

Wasn't 186 a protest against Schwab? Yet Dean took the blow and CS got the contract extension (the next day)

What we didn't know was that '186' was just the start

Things got worse the next year and even worse the year after

Geez lucky we don’t have a CE to erroneously extend this week then!

1 minute ago, Macca said:

So you'd side with the players?

Did you side with the players with '186'?

Did you blame Dean Bailey? (RIP)

I believe we've got an issue with the messaging but it's not necessarily the fault of the coach

There could be all sorts of reasons but one thing is for sure, it doesn't look like the message is getting through

• The players have tuned out or just aren't listening

• The players don't like the delivery or the person delivering the message

• The players don't like the message

• The players have decided that they are going to call the shots

• The coach's delivery style has no impact

• The players are too set in their ways and can't change and therefore, they don't want to change

Etc etc etc

Wasn't 186 a protest against Schwab? Yet Dean took the blow and CS got the contract extension (the next day)

What we didn't know was that '186' was just the start

Things got worse the next year and even worse the year after

This is totally different to 186

Last Saturday we had 13 Premiership Players running around.

All i am saying is that if the current Coaching Staff have lost the players then they have to go.

Waiting for the Season to end is only going to make things worse.

I am not siding with the Players or Coaches, but if a situation has become untenable, then i am wanting a quick change.

Friday night will tell the story. If the Players give a serious 4 Quarter effort, then theere is still a pulse.

If the players just jog around pointing fingers all night, well that is the end of the Current Coaching Staff

4 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

Geez lucky we don’t have a CE to erroneously extend this week then!

We already got rid of Pert (via the players?) haha

Hey, at least myself & Bing have got you blokes & sheilas thinking!

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

This is totally different to 186

Last Saturday we had 13 Premiership Players running around.

All i am saying is that if the current Coaching Staff have lost the players then they have to go.

Waiting for the Season to end is only going to make things worse.

I am not siding with the Players or Coaches, but if a situation has become untenable, then i am wanting a quick change.

Friday night will tell the story. If the Players give a serious 4 Quarter effort, then theere is still a pulse.

If the players just jog around pointing fingers all night, well that is the end of the Current Coaching Staff

Yeah, well maybe the Board might react a bit differently if that happened

Don't forget that the Board has to ratify the player contracts and they might want to offload (or dump) salaries elsewhere

We did try and offload Oliver and Pert can't have been the only one to know ... I reckon they all knew

I'm not calling our efforts on the field a player protest just yet but we'll know if it does go down that path

Q

23 hours ago, Macca said:

I'm looking for the Exit haha

But my evaluation on the teams performance is to not leave anything out (no one-sided arguments like the Pollies)

It's like when we kicked poorly for goal in the SF against Carlton in 2023. Who's fault is that? The Coach?

No, that's on the players especially if they don't practice their goalkicking enough. You want to be very good, do the extra training off your own bat

@frankie_d mentioned that the lack of an well appointed CEO could be a contributing factor? I don't doubt that for a minute

As Frankie said, a good CEO drives the ship and drives the standards

Things must be different once you get to afl, in my day I didn't give a rats toss bag about the people running the joint, it was you, your team mates and the coaches. That's your job. Play good football.

17 minutes ago, Macca said:

Yeah, well maybe the Board might react a bit differently if that happened

Don't forget that the Board has to ratify the player contracts and they might want to offload (or dump) salaries elsewhere

We did try and offload Oliver and Pert can't have been the only one to know ... I reckon they all knew

I'm not calling our efforts on the field a player protest just yet but we'll know if it does go down that path

Q

I have an uneasy feeling we're all right , in a sense.

I think.we are seeing a crisis manifesting in a number of ,well, not spot fires, but major hot spots.

Nothing is gelling... not at all ... again... just my thoughts

I’m wanting to know what the leadership is doing to try and rectify our current predicament.

Our current plight is a dark mark on the leadership of Gawn, Viney, Lever, et al.

12 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I have an uneasy feeling we're all right , in a sense.

I think.we are seeing a crisis manifesting in a number of ,well, not spot fires, but major hot spots.

Nothing is gelling... not at all ... again... just my thoughts

Clubs can clam-up when it suits so trying to figure out what is exactly wrong is difficult

But something is not right and we're seeing the evidence of that, on field

I don't believe the players hate the coach and I don't reckon they love him either. To me, that's just a bunch of nonsense

But playing AFL isn't easy and it's damn complicated for many. Could be that a number of our players are just not up for the challenge

A new voice could change all that but regardless, I'd be looking at trading a few players out (for value, hopefully)

Edited Tuesday at 10:101 day by Macca

I reckon if you had to find one word to describe us currently.... it would be FRUSTRATION

Again...whatever has been designed isn't working... and everybody knows it....and everyone knows it's not a 5 min fix ...if a fix at all.

We really ought not be at this crossroad, but that a dilemma for examing at another date. ( worthy of scrutiny imho )

Whatever the brains trust thought would work during the off season plainly isn't and dare I say won't in its current guise.

Not good

2 hours ago, Macca said:

Are you serious?

I'm of the opinion that the issues we have are not confined to Goodwin

And 3 times already I have made mention that we might have a messaging issue

Do you want to tell @bing181 to stay away from the thread as well

Whatever happened to free speech? You don't like debate? Haha!

Sorry, not suggesting you go away for our benefit. I’m just saying that if I were of your mindset I’d probably stay away from here for my own sanity.

1 minute ago, Mel Bourne said:

Sorry, not suggesting you go away for our benefit. I’m just saying that if I were of your mindset I’d probably stay away from here for my own sanity.

Ha ha! No I'm up for the challenge but I should stress that I'm not a Goodwin fan

It looks that way but again, I'm a stickler for fairness. And I reckon it's grossly unfair to lay the blame of these recent defeats on the coach only

I'll say it again ... Don't let the players off the hook

They are the ones fumbling, not gut running, dropping easy marks, missing easy targets etc etc etc

And that's never going to be a coaching instruction

Our players are getting handsomely paid so if they don't perform, isn't it their own fault?

Some fascinating takes on what’s going on

And unusually civil

Chapeau all!

Going to be interesting to see where it all lands

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Yeah, well maybe the Board might react a bit differently if that happened

Don't forget that the Board has to ratify the player contracts and they might want to offload (or dump) salaries elsewhere

We did try and offload Oliver and Pert can't have been the only one to know ... I reckon they all knew

I'm not calling our efforts on the field a player protest just yet but we'll know if it does go down that path

Q

The Board will do what is best for the Club

We are already way down on Membership this year

Another 20 weeks of Rubbish Football cannot be allowed to happen, we will end up with Sponsors walking.

Players may be shopped at years end, but Coaches can change a lot quicker if that is the only way forward.

I don’t want another 186, I want the Club contesting for Finals, but the last 2 games have been shocking, and if it is that Goodwin and his Coaches have “lost” the players, then they will be gone.

Goodwin has to get through this, that is just the harsh reality

9 hours ago, BoBo said:

Stairs aren’t woke, they’re for real men. Escalators and elevators are woke. Anybody that uses them for any reason are just weak.

9 hours ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

I think stairs are woke - as a man you should be able to just climb up any incline, no matter how steep, without the intervention of engineers or builders. Stairs remove things like the possibility of landslides, thistles and venomous creatures, and that's pathetic. But you're right: escalators and lifts are on a completely different echelon of woke.

Also, magnets are woke.

8 hours ago, Superunknown said:

My shopping centre only has escalators and ramps

A little part of me dies every time I have to go there

I can see this being a serious issue when it comes time to climb back up the ladder.

(I'll see myself out)

11 hours ago, Macca said:

And if that happens, it won't be just the coach copping it in the neck. We'll need a host of new players

This.

We started on the road to a premiership with a new coach. Paul Roos. And for all the talk of games plans and defensive structure and yadda yadda what was the first thing he did? Bring in 3 very good, experienced players. Bernie Vince who was outstanding for a couple of years there, Dom Tyson who was similarly effective, especially for the first couple of years, and Daniel Cross who brought professionalism and leadership on field and off.

If you want to address shortcomings and move a team forward you need to bring in ready to go players, as Roos understood. Without doing that, changing coaches is just moving the deck chairs.

I heard pretty emphatically that Uze was actually a driving force in 2021 and strategically things aren't the same.

37 minutes ago, Norm Smith's Curse said:

I heard pretty emphatically that Uze was actually a driving force in 2021 and strategically things aren't the same.

Thank you for posting this NSC. I think our coach's stubborn mindset and tactical weaknesses were always problems but that Yze quietly brought the skills SG lacked.

That may have disguised the problems but they became evident when Yze and to some extent Burgess were both gone. Yze strikes me as a serious and talented coach and I said on here at the time that I wished he had been given the role instead of extending Goodwin.

There may be others on here who also wonder if Yze will coach his hollowed-out team of youngsters to more wins than SG and his core of premiership veterans.

Could he and would he return?

Edited Tuesday at 12:171 day by Hellfire Dub