PREGAME: Rd 08 vs Geelong

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

5 hours ago, DubDee said:

Goody tries nothing like: 

Turner fwd

Petty fwd

Rivers mid

Salem mid

Brayshaw back

T Mac back again 

Trying 1/2/3 tall fwds

Playing first year kids like Windsor and Kolt

I reckon Goody gets a bad rep for being stubborn and not trying stuff but he is getting a lot better in this area the last 2 years imo. Also game plan mixed up somewhat this season

Most of the talls have reached a point of desperation before being moved. Turner was a gamble but after seeing his vfl quarter it was an easy one to make.

Rivers played a half on ball after Oliver played 1.5 games unable to mark, handball or even pick the ball up. Has barely had a rotation in there any other time. Salem was moved the first time we had a backline injury. Windsor was pick 7 and Hunter was out, of course he played.

Scott proactively rests a number of his players (Stanley, Hawkins, Kolo have all had weeks off) and makes a lot of in game moves. So many Geelong players are genuine utilities who can play half forward, wing, on ball and back. Blicavs, Duncan, Holmes, Tuohy, O’Connor, Bowes and Atkins. And tall(ish) forwards in Henry and Cameron come on to the wing.

If we have Langdon and Windsor going head to head with Cameron and/or Blicavs with no plan we’ll be in a world of trouble.

We can’t just back our system, we need proactive options. 

[DubDee 25,854]

5 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Most of the talls have reached a point of desperation before being moved. Turner was a gamble but after seeing his vfl quarter it was an easy one to make.

Rivers played a half on ball after Oliver played 1.5 games unable to mark, handball or even pick the ball up. Has barely had a rotation in there any other time. Salem was moved the first time we had a backline injury. Windsor was pick 7 and Hunter was out, of course he played.

Scott proactively rests a number of his players (Stanley, Hawkins, Kolo have all had weeks off) and makes a lot of in game moves. So many Geelong players are genuine utilities who can play half forward, wing, on ball and back. Blicavs, Duncan, Holmes, Tuohy, O’Connor, Bowes and Atkins. And tall(ish) forwards in Henry and Cameron come on to the wing.

If we have Langdon and Windsor going head to head with Cameron and/or Blicavs with no plan we’ll be in a world of trouble.

We can’t just back our system, we need proactive options. 

cmon man, it’s a gamble or desperation when we make a change and strategic gold when Scott does it??

Petty for example was a great defender and most coaches would have kept him there

Scott rests players as they are so old. I admit we should have rested Brown but generally with a younger team it’s not needed

 

[Oxdee 347]

21 hours ago, Demonland said:

After returning to the winners list the Demons have a 10 day break until they face the unbeaten Cats at the MCG on Saturday Night. Who comes in and who goes out for this crucial match?

Huge game

[Oxdee 347]

Dees have been sluggish last couple of weeks. Big test next week. Geelong looking good 

[Redleg 40,905]

Cats look likely to be at full strength against us.

 

[binman 42,919]

6 hours ago, Flower Magic said:

Goody does not change winning teams. So no change.

Agree.

Though I could see goody wanting to bring hunter in for his experience and grunt.

Possibly at the expense of woey or Laurie (if the latter woey sub).

[binman 42,919]

20 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Cats look likely to be at full strength against us.

 

That assumes they get through their game against the blues on Saturday injury free.

I'm predicting two hammy tweaks and a suspension.

[Oxdee 347]

10 minutes ago, binman said:

Agree.

Though I could see goody wanting to bring hunter in for his experience and grunt.

Possibly at the expense of woey or Laurie (if the latter woey sub).

Goodwin mentioned mcadam in his presser. Wouldn’t be a surprise if he came in 

[dazzledavey36 54,889]

42 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Cats look likely to be at full strength against us.

 

Just got back Cam Guthrie and will get Stewart back against us...

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

cmon man, it’s a gamble or desperation when we make a change and strategic gold when Scott does it??

Petty for example was a great defender and most coaches would have kept him there

Scott rests players as they are so old. I admit we should have rested Brown but generally with a younger team it’s not needed

 

But it has been desperation when we’ve done it?

Our tall forwards have repeatedly hit rock bottom since 2021. Just about everyone tall has had a go up forward, of course Petty did. Plus his form down back wasn’t as great as it had been.

Brown, McDonald, May, Gawn are all veterans in need of a rest at times, I can only recall May getting one at any stage.

How many players have we tried on the wing since 2022? Langdon, Gus, Hunter, JJ, Windsor and a few fill ins (Billings, Woey, ANB). Rarely have we mixed and matched in that position.

Same for half backs. Same for on ballers where the big 3, Sparrow and Pickett are just about the only ones to have a go.

[DubDee 25,854]

24 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

But it has been desperation when we’ve done it?

Our tall forwards have repeatedly hit rock bottom since 2021. Just about everyone tall has had a go up forward, of course Petty did. Plus his form down back wasn’t as great as it had been.

Brown, McDonald, May, Gawn are all veterans in need of a rest at times, I can only recall May getting one at any stage.

How many players have we tried on the wing since 2022? Langdon, Gus, Hunter, JJ, Windsor and a few fill ins (Billings, Woey, ANB). Rarely have we mixed and matched in that position.

Same for half backs. Same for on ballers where the big 3, Sparrow and Pickett are just about the only ones to have a go.

you seem to be proving my point. Goody has tried a lot of players in other positions like the 8 guys you mentioned playing wing. 

He generally doesn’t rest players. Guns like May and Gawn have shown for years they don’t need it. I do think Goody should look into resting players like BB though. 

[Demonsterative 3,020]

47 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

But it has been desperation when we’ve done it?

Our tall forwards have repeatedly hit rock bottom since 2021. Just about everyone tall has had a go up forward, of course Petty did. Plus his form down back wasn’t as great as it had been.

Brown, McDonald, May, Gawn are all veterans in need of a rest at times, I can only recall May getting one at any stage.

How many players have we tried on the wing since 2022? Langdon, Gus, Hunter, JJ, Windsor and a few fill ins (Billings, Woey, ANB). Rarely have we mixed and matched in that position.

Same for half backs. Same for on ballers where the big 3, Sparrow and Pickett are just about the only ones to have a go.

You call it desperation DS, I call it experimentation. 
 

Gus was an inside midfielder and Goody turned him into a wing, HBF er, then back into the midfield. JJ too as a wing/midfielder.
 

TMac was seen as gawn around here and Goody put him down back once more. Petty is the same in reverse. 
 

Windsor was not on our list until Nov last year. 

 

JVR as relief rucking. 

 

Howes was a winger turner backman. 
 

I could go on with a few more… 

 

No longer do you have players who play one role, they all play defence, attack and contested footy.
 

 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Just got back Cam Guthrie and will get Stewart back against us...

Cam will be rusty and no guarantees for Stewart. 
 

Their midfield and ball movement will make it really hard work for us - if we put up anything like the last 3 weeks of footy we are in a lot of trouble. 
 

Hopefully they are a bit bruised up after playing the Blues. 

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

1 hour ago, Demonsterative said:

You call it desperation DS, I call it experimentation. 
 

Gus was an inside midfielder and Goody turned him into a wing, HBF er, then back into the midfield. JJ too as a wing/midfielder.
 

TMac was seen as gawn around here and Goody put him down back once more. Petty is the same in reverse. 
 

Windsor was not on our list until Nov last year. 

 

JVR as relief rucking. 

 

Howes was a winger turner backman. 
 

I could go on with a few more… 

 

No longer do you have players who play one role, they all play defence, attack and contested footy.
 

 

Brayshaw: Moved out of necessity because we had Tracc, Viney, Oliver, Harmes, Sparrow. Not exactly a shock that one. Went to half back as emergency cover for backline injuries and given his marking and reading the play hardly a shock there. Petty a desperation move forward to fix a broken forward line. T Mc a desperation move to salvage his career. Howes a young player assigned a new role based on attributes, that happens at every club. Last time I saw Howes play wing it didn't go well, hardly a surprise you move the tall rangy kid with a nice kick (at times) to half back. Windsor playing after being drafted says what about his versatility or the coaches adaptability? He's a winger drafted to play wing?

Who are the utilities on our list?

I named about 7 for Geelong. 

Petty is a swing man, Disco might be too. Tracc obviously is a mid/forward. Pickett might be transitioning to a forward/mid. Billings is a wing/forward.

Is there a single other player you feel comfortable with in more than their set role? How about any guys who can cover 3 or even 4 roles like a Mitch Duncan or a Max Holmes?

Can ANB, Chandler, Billings play half back? Can Windsor or Langdon go forward or back? Can Rivers, McVee or Howes go forward? Are any of those outsider runners or flankers capable of playing on ball? Can Viney or Oliver play forward or back? 

I sense the answer to most of those questions is no, but we've never seen really any of them, so how would we know? To add versatility Scott shuffles a heap of his mids and flankers all the time. We don't, so when we get injuries or come up against teams that have guys who create mismatches like Blicavs and Cameron we don't have any experience with combating it.

[kev martin 9,888]

I am a Petty fan.

Before his injury he was doing well. However it took a few games before that to get going/confidence. Once he has that first good game he will improve his consistency and output.

He has a beautiful kick for goal, good hands and brings some mongrel.

Watch out kitty's. 

They are not dropping him, nor moving him to the backline. Goody shows that he has lots of patience with his big forwards, example Weeds and even JVR.

We are building our season, and will peak at the right time.

Edited April 25 by kev martin

[Adam The God 30,239]

11 hours ago, jnrmac said:

The Cats will play keepings off. Take it to the bank. The key for us is to stop that and put pressure on the ball carrier. They switch at every opportunity and try to control tempo. We have to cover the ground well to contain them

The Richmond game was scrappy and we turned the ball over a lot but the Cats will be a different stye of game

One thing Goodwin is good at is ensuring that the first halves of games are a scrap and an arm wrestle. He likes to stay in games for long periods before grinding out wins.

Geelong are totally beatable and we will have to play well to do it. A number of players need to lift but most of all our midfield.

Our backline this year has been awesome and deserve a huge amount of credit for keeping us on track while our mids have gone missing

 

It'll be a really interesting game, because in many ways we've taken Geelong's blueprint more than Collingwood's, so we'll both likely be playing a similar game style. Slingshot from D50 or clean scores from stoppage. The problem is we may want to take more territory next week because their forwards are so dangerous and their backs zone off so well.

If you look at the draw though, Geelong have beaten no one of significance despite being unbeaten. 

I think Max and Fritta may hold the key. If Max can get his marking happening around the ground and Fritta plays a defensive role on someone like Stewart, but can snag a few, it'll go a long way towards the result.

We'll also need more from our three bulls in the middle.

[Adam The God 30,239]

9 hours ago, old55 said:

Young, Vlastuin and Grimes each took one contested mark last night. That’s it for Richmond tall defenders and they weren't all vs Petty. You're making stuff up.

It's bizarre the amount of fake news post this game.

[Demonsterative 3,020]

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Brayshaw: Moved out of necessity because we had Tracc, Viney, Oliver, Harmes, Sparrow. Not exactly a shock that one. Went to half back as emergency cover for backline injuries and given his marking and reading the play hardly a shock there. Petty a desperation move forward to fix a broken forward line. T Mc a desperation move to salvage his career. Howes a young player assigned a new role based on attributes, that happens at every club. Last time I saw Howes play wing it didn't go well, hardly a surprise you move the tall rangy kid with a nice kick (at times) to half back. Windsor playing after being drafted says what about his versatility or the coaches adaptability? He's a winger drafted to play wing?

Who are the utilities on our list?

I named about 7 for Geelong. 

Petty is a swing man, Disco might be too. Tracc obviously is a mid/forward. Pickett might be transitioning to a forward/mid. Billings is a wing/forward.

Is there a single other player you feel comfortable with in more than their set role? How about any guys who can cover 3 or even 4 roles like a Mitch Duncan or a Max Holmes?

Can ANB, Chandler, Billings play half back? Can Windsor or Langdon go forward or back? Can Rivers, McVee or Howes go forward? Are any of those outsider runners or flankers capable of playing on ball? Can Viney or Oliver play forward or back? 

I sense the answer to most of those questions is no, but we've never seen really any of them, so how would we know? To add versatility Scott shuffles a heap of his mids and flankers all the time. We don't, so when we get injuries or come up against teams that have guys who create mismatches like Blicavs and Cameron we don't have any experience with combating it.

Your original point was the lack of moves made by Goody, and you have continued to pull the narrative his moves are made out of  desperation. Many have given you examples of moves made by the coaching staff, Binman has pointed out the changes to the game plan/style. I say he is trying to implement a winning game plan for another premiership. Clubs worked us out after 2021 as all clubs do when you win a premiership. His record speaks for itself. 
 

Scott took over a decade to change his game plan and he and the Cats reaped the rewards in 2022. One could say it was out of desperation as his stars were at the end of their careers and he had no other choice. They haven’t beaten anyone of note in 2024, and 2023 was a disaster. I’m not sure Scott is the template to use here. He doesn’t have a Trac, Oliver and Viney to utilise. One could argue he is desperate as he hasn’t the midfield cattle and shuffles them as he knows how average their midfield is.
 

Why would any coach throw Clarry, Viney and Trac anywhere else but where they play now? Would you throw Trac down back? Can the players you pointed out play in those positions?Yes, But why would you coach in a way that weakens the team?
 

Goody rotates his flanker and midfielders throughout the game. He rotates his KPP players as well. But when you have stars like May, Lever, Clarry, Gawn Trac and Viney, they get the majority of time in their best positions

 

Point being, Goody makes his moves with the cattle he has at his disposal. I like the moves and see he is trying  new things and new ways. Not out of desperation

 

potato, patarto. 

[JJR 681]

Interesting,they've started us slight favourites on the betting market, still early though.

[Hawny for Gawny 451]

Everyone wants Petty dropped which is somewhat fair but only if you are bringing BBB in for him. Quiet but provides some form of structure forward and can generally bring it to ground, wouldn't mind telling him to be a defender against Tom Stewart next week.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

On 24/04/2024 at 23:23, Nicko said:

If there is to be a change - Fullarton in for petty although that’s quite a risk against the cats….

so maybe just a straight swap - Laurie in to the main team for petty as the sub…

There is zero risk in bringing in Fullo or Verrall for Petty!

It's a free swing and could help Roo improve his lot by focussing solely on his KF role.

Unfortunately Petty has barely fired a shot in five matches.  And a bit cruel by the SC to keep selecting him these last few weeks imv.

Help the bloke out by allowing him time and space at Casey to try and find his mojo... reset & review in a few weeks time.

He also has some of the worst numbers i've ever seen from a Demon player since putting player ratings together since 2017.

And that's across the board In pretty much every basic metric.

He's 61% down on his 2023 rating after five matches and the weekend was no different, where he posted a negative rating against one of the most injury riddled sides going around at present, sitting in second last spot.

Many have said that JVR is not progressing as they would like or have expected to see this season in his role as a KF.

Could Roo's growth as a KF have been stunted somewhat as a result of his time spent in the middle this year (12% CBA*) and to a slightly lessor extent last season (8% CBA*)?

Is it just a coincidence that he attemds roughly 12% of all center bounces and that his rating ia also down by roughly the same amount (9%) so far this season?

The decision to play either Fullo or Verrall in place of Petty this week is one of the easiest the SC could make and an absolute no brainer.

* Courtesy of wheeloratings.com

Edited April 25 by Demon Dynasty

[jnrmac 20,060]

17 hours ago, DubDee said:

Stewart would play on Turner or JVR in this scenario

Goodwin would have played Melksham on Stewart had he been available.  Might surprise with a defensive role from mcadam if he's capable of that.  Stewart would be troubled by McAdam

Maybe the plan was to try Disco for a game and then play on Stewart?

Edited April 25 by jnrmac

[jnrmac 20,060]

18 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Not the worst of ideas. If Windsor could hold a position at half back he could be a real rebounding weapon. On the other hand that's one less player delivering quality ball into the forward line

I like Windsor but he does have some JHunt vibes with his disposal. He is a better decision maker but his kicking can be ordinary

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

11 hours ago, Oxdee said:

Goodwin mentioned mcadam in his presser. Wouldn’t be a surprise if he came in 

He also said something along the lines of "looking forward to seeing him in a few weeks".  Probably diff to that but a similar context.

Also sone on here have said there's word that we are wanting him to play at least another game at Casey.

Of course clubs gave been known to lie before but we might be looking at a debut vs the Blues for Smacca

[640MD 3,375]

5 hours ago, JJR said:

Interesting,they've started us slight favourites on the betting market, still early though.

Favourites in the gambling game, does not mean much once they get on the ground.

but maybe we are developing a more favourable opinion of our team from the wider football followers.  And gamblers by their nature take a more interested and invested view of the possible outcome.

Go Dee’s