Appalling Umpire Error

[dee-tox 4,831]

Generally speaking, Aussie Rules fans are far too parochial and critical of umpiring decisions. All you hear on Monday's after the weekend are so called fans whinging about umpires costing them the game. So much so that there is some conspiracy attached to it .

Mistakes are made and there will be inconsistencies like most sports. But Aussie Rules is so difficult to adjudicate. There is so much happening at one time. So much grey area. 36 players often in a confined space. There has been a trend of late in deliberately burrowing your head into an opponent, rugby league style. But how can you police it? Players duck their head all the time. We were taught as kids to burrow into packs to get the ball. I worry it just adds another layer of complication to an already difficult game to adjudicate.

[Bystander 894]

11 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

The AFL concedes some instances involving Ginnivan “were not adjudicated correctly” as stated by Laura Kane. In the same breath they claim that Ginnivan “is not umpired any differently to other players.” If his actions aren’t being adjudicated correctly but he’s not being umpired differently, does that mean all other players have instances where the adjudication is incorrect?

This is the problem. She said it. But he is. Her saying it does not make it so.

Blah, blah, blah. PR rubbish.

[TheWiz 723]

The AFL has completely butchered umpiring. Umpires have been calling to get rid of the bounce due to injuries and mental health since 2014, the AFL changed their training and they no longer train together or have access to a gym, and they abuse they cop is back because it’s clear that dissent is not a rule anymore this year.

This is against the backdrop of footy being short of 6,000 umpires.

[Mazer Rackham 14,970]

11 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

Is dissent still a rule?

It is, but as can happen with all AFL rules, it's not currently in the collection of rules that is enforced each round.

But fear not, it will get its turn. The AFL will eventually "bring on the sub" (in response to a high profile outcry) and this rule will once again have its day (even as another rule is spelled on the bench).

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,661]

10 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Generally speaking, Aussie Rules fans are far too parochial and critical of umpiring decisions. All you hear on Monday's after the weekend are so called fans whinging about umpires costing them the game. So much so that there is some conspiracy attached to it .

Mistakes are made and there will be inconsistencies like most sports. But Aussie Rules is so difficult to adjudicate. There is so much happening at one time. So much grey area. 36 players often in a confined space. There has been a trend of late in deliberately burrowing your head into an opponent, rugby league style. But how can you police it? Players duck their head all the time. We were taught as kids to burrow into packs to get the ball. I worry it just adds another layer of complication to an already difficult game to adjudicate.

But in the instance I've illustrated in the opening post, the Carlton player picked up the ball, saw an opponent approaching, and dived his head between the tackler's legs. (as mentioned above, very like the Viney incident in the 2021 GF, but there's more emphasis on head protection nowadays)

The umpire that gave Carlton the free just has no understanding of the game.  This was not a difficult adjudication....it was an egregious error.  If that error is repeated, serious injuries will inevitably follow.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

12 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

Is dissent still a rule?

You mean on Demonland or on the field of play?

[leave it to deever 16,581]

7 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

You mean on Demonland or on the field of play?

Was a little of both to be honest.

But a while ago you couldn't look sideways at an umpire and now they don't care again.

I think it was overpaid.

[Ouch! 2,138]

12 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Was a little of both to be honest.

But a while ago you couldn't look sideways at an umpire and now they don't care again.

I think it was overpaid.

I think some of the media asked a similar question to this through the week, and admittedly I think there was a dissent 50m paid in one of the earlier games this season, but this rule is subjective at best, and dare I say is based on how the umps are feeling often more than hard evidence. But no doubt we're gonna get a round where the umps are reminded about dissent rules, and you'll get 20+ dissent 50m penalties in a round!

[leave it to deever 16,581]

Just now, Ouch! said:

I think some of the media asked a similar question to this through the week, and admittedly I think there was a dissent 50m paid in one of the earlier games this season, but this rule is subjective at best, and dare I say is based on how the umps are feeling often more than hard evidence. But no doubt we're gonna get a round where the umps are reminded about dissent rules, and you'll get 20+ dissent 50m penalties in a round!

Thanks Ouch.

Yep I can see that round coming too.

Let's hope the Filth cop it.

[Mazer Rackham 14,970]

15 minutes ago, Ouch! said:

I think some of the media asked a similar question to this through the week, and admittedly I think there was a dissent 50m paid in one of the earlier games this season, but this rule is subjective at best, and dare I say is based on how the umps are feeling often more than hard evidence. 

This is a huge problem with many of the AFL rules. For reasons unknown, the umps do not enforce all the rules, only some of them, and the subset of rules that gets enforced changes throughout the season.

Can you imagine any other sport suffering this nonsense?

"It might have been offside, but I'm not in my offside phase at the moment."

"You say the serve was out, but when considered from a postmodern perspective, what even IS 'out'? Can we not say that in some way, we are all 'out'?"

[layzie 30,392]

Boundary umpire was right there. Do they have the power to overturn? Probably not

[In Harmes Way 7,620]

5 hours ago, Ouch! said:

I think some of the media asked a similar question to this through the week, and admittedly I think there was a dissent 50m paid in one of the earlier games this season, but this rule is subjective at best, and dare I say is based on how the umps are feeling often more than hard evidence. But no doubt we're gonna get a round where the umps are reminded about dissent rules, and you'll get 20+ dissent 50m penalties in a round!

Umpire appreciation round.

[demon3165 2,316]

Problem is most supporters don't know the rules and it's it easy to pot an umpire, umpires don't miss goals 20m out, umpires don't handball to players standing still surrounded by opposition players umpires don't miss 20m passes umpires don't have 30 odd more entries into the forward line and don't kick enough goals to win a game, but yes they miss miss frees it's pretty damm hard when you have 36 players around the ball, try seeing anything through that.  In a game of football that has different variations of rules generally they do a great job but supporters like to blame them in a game played over 120 minutes.

Well go try doing it yourself and see how you go......

 

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

5 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

Problem is most supporters don't know the rules and it's it easy to pot an umpire, umpires don't miss goals 20m out, umpires don't handball to players standing still surrounded by opposition players umpires don't miss 20m passes umpires don't have 30 odd more entries into the forward line and don't kick enough goals to win a game, but yes they miss miss frees it's pretty damm hard when you have 36 players around the ball, try seeing anything through that.  In a game of football that has different variations of rules generally they do a great job but supporters like to blame them in a game played over 120 minutes.

Well go try doing it yourself and see how you go......

 

 

I often wonder why the broadcasters don't include a retired field umpire on their calls occasionally to explain the rules. 

[thirty-one 68]

1 hour ago, demon3165 said:

Problem is most supporters don't know the rules and it's it easy to pot an umpire....

Well go try doing it yourself and see how you go......

 

 

Years ago I umpired a friendly match between two completely non-footballing clubs.  I was also the trainer.  (LOL)  So noone heard me stop play whilst I dealt with someone down with cramp, and suddenly one of the guys is completely in my face, DIDN'T I SEE THAT?  HOLDING THE BALL!  He was totally going off.  Over a friendly game.  Because someone was caught with the ball.  He was purple in the face with rage, fists shaking at me, spluttering all over me in his anger at me not paying a free kick.   It was fascinating and somewhat terrifying.

I think that was the moment I no longer called the umps white maggots.  Of course they don't wear white anymore so... Also I can see why they need more than one or two umps.  Don't think I ever ran as much in my whole life as I did that day.  Then having eyes on the play and off the play.

Anyway the game got called off when one of them managed to break both his tibia and fibula when he fell over.  Didn't get pushed or hit or anything, just fell over a tussock of grass. The unpaid free got forgotten at that point.  And someone else dealt with the guy, thank bob, I was umpiring up the other end of the field when it happened and we were like where's A?  "Oh, he broke his leg."  WTF?  So we ended the game.

[Ouch! 2,138]

On 04/04/2024 at 17:42, demon3165 said:

Problem is most supporters don't know the rules and it's it easy to pot an umpire, umpires don't miss goals 20m out, umpires don't handball to players standing still surrounded by opposition players umpires don't miss 20m passes umpires don't have 30 odd more entries into the forward line and don't kick enough goals to win a game, but yes they miss miss frees it's pretty damm hard when you have 36 players around the ball, try seeing anything through that.  In a game of football that has different variations of rules generally they do a great job but supporters like to blame them in a game played over 120 minutes.

Well go try doing it yourself and see how you go......

I'm not potting the umpires, I'm potting the stupidity of the rules. Do I think that dissent should be stamped out, yes absolutely. Do I think the rules should have given 50m penalties when players are expressing their frustration in their own actions as much as anything, No.

With that said as well, goal assist technology has had a negative impact on umpiring similarly as it has in cricket. In that a lot of decisions that don't need to be referred are being referred due to 'fear' rather than it being unclear.  That doesn't help their mindset.  Also, boundary umpires at the moment are making a lot of mistakes with regards to calling the ball out of bounds. I have no idea why, but in terms of clarity of the rule, it's not a hard decision to make that call. Often we are seeing both a field umpire AND a boundary umpire on the scene yet no calls (Higgins, that Port player last week v the dees, Jeremy Cameron x 2) 

I'll second the view that someone made in this thread that having an umpire in the commentary or media would be valuable (i.e Razor Ray with Whately).  Even Laura Kane talking to the media each week is welcomed, we don't always have to agree, but at least they explain what is going on with contentious issues.

[demon3165 2,316]

7 minutes ago, Ouch! said:

I'm not potting the umpires, I'm potting the stupidity of the rules. Do I think that dissent should be stamped out, yes absolutely. Do I think the rules should have given 50m penalties when players are expressing their frustration in their own actions as much as anything, No.

With that said as well, goal assist technology has had a negative impact on umpiring similarly as it has in cricket. In that a lot of decisions that don't need to be referred are being referred due to 'fear' rather than it being unclear.  That doesn't help their mindset.  Also, boundary umpires at the moment are making a lot of mistakes with regards to calling the ball out of bounds. I have no idea why, but in terms of clarity of the rule, it's not a hard decision to make that call. Often we are seeing both a field umpire AND a boundary umpire on the scene yet no calls (Higgins, that Port player last week v the dees, Jeremy Cameron x 2) 

I'll second the view that someone made in this thread that having an umpire in the commentary or media would be valuable (i.e Razor Ray with Whately).  Even Laura Kane talking to the media each week is welcomed, we don't always have to agree, but at least they explain what is going on with contentious issues.

The rules of the game are generally the same it's the interpretation that has changed, but it's a hard game to umpire, Generally they don’t do a bad job but the way the game is played and manufactured with 36 players at one end of the ground it would be hard to see any frees that would be.

The worst rule that has changed is the ruck rule how can 2 guys grapple each other around the shoulders every time I think it's time for no contact until the ball is in the air just like the old days I'm afraid for all ball ups and boundary throw ins.

To blame umpires for losses is a cop out for why teams in my opinion is easy to blame someone else instead of why it happened. But I agree with the poster about having an ex umpire in the box to explain some interpretations but to do that would incorporate higher costs and I don't think it would happen.

 

 

[Whispering_Jack 28,118]

The vision I’ve seen of the controversial mark paid to Carlton’s Matthew Cottrell suggests that Fremantle was robbed yesterday. Why didn’t something like this happen last year when we were deathriding them?