POSTGAME: Rd 16 vs GWS

[layzie 33,991]

1 hour ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Where were our defenders in the last few minutes!!!

3 minutes to go and not a single defender within cooee of the goal square!  Kelly's kick bounced before going over the line... 

Its worrying if leaving the goal square undefended with mere minutes to go is our MO for protecting a small lead.

Sure we were attacking to win but leaving most of the d50 wide open made us sitting ducks for a Giant's 'out the back' goal or a Kelly long range kick.

Poor leadership by defenders for end of game defence tactics.

We were playing a real high line, good in principle but it means nothing if we don't convert the chances we get from it.

I would have just loved someone to stand the mark when Kelly had it. 

[Lucifers Hero 40,361]

13 hours ago, A F said:

I didn't excuse the the inability execute, but there are some on this thread, maybe many going by the shallowness of some of the analysis that are denying fatigue is playing a factor. It clear as day is. As I keep saying, we need to be better though.

I think that is unfair.

Most posters accept that fatigue is a factor be it physical, mental or from loading.  The debate is whether it is the dominant factor. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Lucifers Hero

[rpfc 28,777]

9 hours ago, fr_ap said:

He's gone to absolute water since

1) the bailey smith suspension 

2) signing his contract 

Looks like he cannot be bothered and his lack of focus is self evident. Can't hit a target, can barely possess the footy without fumbling, and just can't seem to make the right decision. All of those things used to be absolute standout features of his game. 

It's been an extremely sad demise. It's weird and counterintuitive, but sometimes when you 'make it' and start getting paid really well to do something you love, it kills your love of it. That's what it looks like to me. He's not having any fun and he's going through the motions entirely. Very sad. 

I think this is absolute nonsense.

[fr_ap 2,529]

8 hours ago, Jjrogan said:

How do you know it's not that simple. Give him 10 minutes. Change it up. What is stupid is doing the same thing with the same players and expecting different results. 

Clearly our ball use is a problem.  His ball use is one of our best.  I'm not asking to put Jake lever in there.   What exactly would be the worst thing that would happen?  Our whole game plan comes crashing down if he has 2 rotations on ball?  Lol. When something isn't working try something different.. what exactly have the coaches tried that's different

 That's the point. 

That's fine. I take your point, we could try any number of different things. Personally I don't think Judd is well suited to the midfield at all. Yes he's elusive, but when he's caught and under pressure he's actually as poor a kick as everyone else. He's not going to get away in the heat of the midfield. 

I like the suggestion of him to the wing though - I've said a number of times Hunter is good structurally but a huge turnover merchant. Ironic given we brought him in for his apparent ability to hit targets i50. 

But in general, rolling a 15 game half back through the midfield for 2 rotations is not the solution to our problems

[Lucifers Hero 40,361]

11 minutes ago, layzie said:

We were playing a real high line, good in principle but it means nothing if we don't convert the chances we get from it.

I would have just loved someone to stand the mark when Kelly had it. 

That was a rare lapse by Lever.  Turned his back on Kelly and jogged past him.  Never a smart thing to do even if 60mts out as we weren't set up behind the ball to protect our goals.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Lucifers Hero

[beelzebub 23,383]

7 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I think that is unfair.

Most posters accept that fatigue is a factor be it physical, mental or from loading.  The debate is whether it is the dominant factor. 

Also ...why is fatigue any more a factor/excuse/contingent with the Dees and not 17 other clubs ?

Its a furphy.

[layzie 33,991]

Would have been good if ANB kicked that goal. 

[Adam The God 30,408]

8 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I think that is unfair.

Most posters accept that fatigue is a factor be it physical, mental or from loading.  The debate is whether it is the dominant factor. 

Re read the first few pages mate. It's sack the coach, x player can't execute a 15m pass, Kozzy is hopeless (he played 93% TOG - he was exhausted) etc etc and then TU, who I really rate as a poster says "It’s not loading, it’s not personnel (albeit we’re missing two of our 5 best players), it’s some combination of coaching and skill.".

Well, I'd disagree that fatigue is not a huge factor in why our accuracy has plummeted in the last 5 games. I'd say it's a combination of everything, but if you disregard fatigue in the picture and say loading is not a factor, you're sticking your head in the sand IMO. And I'm not saying you're doing that @Lucifers Hero, but there's some real knee jerk reactions on here, that I get to an extent, we were horrible yesterday, but let's look at the whole picture. 

[beelzebub 23,383]

50 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Not really on the players though.

They were continuing to defend the way we set up to defend, by pressing up into the forward half.

Absent a coaching directive, they weren't going to drop back into the D50 and have no influence unless GWS got the ball that deep. They were always going to sit high. 

IMO we press too high but once you accept that press, I think the blame for how sides score out the back is a coaching one, not a leadership or player one.

Someone had to keep an eye on that part of the ground. It's been a major flaw in our game that if you can get out our back door...the worlds your oyster. 

I have no doubt ( in my view ) that the box plays the % in this regard.  But as a manner of playing this game you cant expect it to work all the time, and im sure they don't.  But in games ( especially) where your 'game' isnt winning and where the opponent are showing more guile the logical adjunct is to make sure your defenders keep an eye. 

We should have played  one more back behind the ball. 

[layzie 33,991]

2 minutes ago, A F said:

Re read the first few pages mate. It's sack the coach, x player can't execute a 15m pass, Kozzy is hopeless (he played 93% TOG - he was exhausted) etc etc and then TU, who I really rate as a poster says "It’s not loading, it’s not personnel (albeit we’re missing two of our 5 best players), it’s some combination of coaching and skill.".

Well, I'd disagree that fatigue is not a huge factor in why our accuracy has plummeted in the last 5 games. I'd say it's a combination of everything, but if you disregard fatigue in the picture and say loading is not a factor, you're sticking your head in the sand IMO. And I'm not saying you're doing that @Lucifers Hero, but there's some real knee jerk reactions on here, that I get to an extent, we were horrible yesterday, but let's look at the whole picture. 

Plenty of knee-jerks and some just jerks. 

[Bystander 903]

42 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

Pfft, VFL ain’t grassroots.

You are right. It isn't. But it is a great day at the footy. And Sandy is a good location for lots of demons supporters to have a look at some demons young talent, eg Woewodin, Shache (spellcheck) Jefferson etc.

[Smokey 4,389]

Embarrassing performance. Just pathetic. 

I'm ready for Hardwick now ... 

[Lucifers Hero 40,361]

5 minutes ago, A F said:

Re read the first few pages mate. It's sack the coach, x player can't execute a 15m pass, Kozzy is hopeless (he played 93% TOG - he was exhausted) etc etc and then TU, who I really rate as a poster says "It’s not loading, it’s not personnel (albeit we’re missing two of our 5 best players), it’s some combination of coaching and skill.".

Well, I'd disagree that fatigue is not a huge factor in why our accuracy has plummeted in the last 5 games. I'd say it's a combination of everything, but if you disregard fatigue in the picture and say loading is not a factor, you're sticking your head in the sand IMO. And I'm not saying you're doing that @Lucifers Hero, but there's some real knee jerk reactions on here, that I get to an extent, we were horrible yesterday, but let's look at the whole picture. 

Whatever was in the first few pages it is still no reason to generalise and say many poster's analysis is shallow.  Posters were clearly disappointed and angry.   Let them vent.  It is what a fan forum is about.

Thank you for not putting me in the 'sticking your head in the sand' category. 

[layzie 33,991]

10 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

Seriously consider going to watch a local game of footy. It is a world away from AFL (a very good thing imo) and can be extremely cathartic. There is a real sense of beauty to grassroots footy, it’s the way the game is meant to be played.

Might I suggest you come down and watch Fish Creek! Never a dull moment and you won’t regret it 😝.

 

I'm pretty close to Harry Trott Oval, will go down and watch Collegians play in the ammos in a couple of week. Jared Rivers is the coach so happy to give him my support!

Been so long since I went to a country footy game, I did actually go to a Fish Creek v Foster game years ago believe it or not! Good times. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by layzie

[demon3165 2,804]

23 minutes ago, A F said:

Re read the first few pages mate. It's sack the coach, x player can't execute a 15m pass, Kozzy is hopeless (he played 93% TOG - he was exhausted) etc etc and then TU, who I really rate as a poster says "It’s not loading, it’s not personnel (albeit we’re missing two of our 5 best players), it’s some combination of coaching and skill.".

Well, I'd disagree that fatigue is not a huge factor in why our accuracy has plummeted in the last 5 games. I'd say it's a combination of everything, but if you disregard fatigue in the picture and say loading is not a factor, you're sticking your head in the sand IMO. And I'm not saying you're doing that @Lucifers Hero, but there's some real knee jerk reactions on here, that I get to an extent, we were horrible yesterday, but let's look at the whole picture. 

But we are the highest scoring team in the comp........lmfao

[demon3165 2,804]

22 minutes ago, layzie said:

Plenty of knee-jerks and some just jerks. 

What picture is that, we all see the problem except Goodwin and co 21 football in 22 and 23 forward line is dysfunctional they even talk about it but do the same thing the week after, if we fix that up we are in with a chance but it's not looking good with how we deliver. 

[BDA 22,875]

29 minutes ago, A F said:

Re read the first few pages mate. It's sack the coach, x player can't execute a 15m pass, Kozzy is hopeless (he played 93% TOG - he was exhausted) etc etc and then TU, who I really rate as a poster says "It’s not loading, it’s not personnel (albeit we’re missing two of our 5 best players), it’s some combination of coaching and skill.".

Well, I'd disagree that fatigue is not a huge factor in why our accuracy has plummeted in the last 5 games. I'd say it's a combination of everything, but if you disregard fatigue in the picture and say loading is not a factor, you're sticking your head in the sand IMO. And I'm not saying you're doing that @Lucifers Hero, but there's some real knee jerk reactions on here, that I get to an extent, we were horrible yesterday, but let's look at the whole picture. 

The players are tired alright. Tired of huffing and puffing for no reward. It must be demoralising to dominate all the key stats and fail to convert.

I’ve had a good nights sleep and had a long walk with the dog this morning. I’m not as doom and gloom as I was yesterday evening. I’m hoping a dry game under the roof at Marvel might spark us. A JVR / BBB double act releases the tension. 1 good performance could turn our season. I live in hope.

One thing for sure, we have to change up the coaching ticket in the off season. I think we’ve gone stale and badly need some new voices and ideas. A Justin Leppitsch type would make a big difference I think.

Go Dees

[DistrACTION Jackson 9,228]

We have now lost 4 games in the wet and one of the issues is we have a lot of below average skilled players and these guys are found out in bad conditions.

ANB, Langdon, Hunter, Trac, Viney (loved his game but still terrible skills), Pickett (he is highly skilled but wtf was that).

I am so frustrated watching this side, it is just the worst gamestyle to watch.

[Jaded No More 68,974]

48 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

That was a rare lapse by Lever.  Turned his back on Kelly and jogged past him.  Never a smart thing to do even if 60mts out as we weren't set up behind the ball to protect our goals.

I have a lot of sympathy for our defenders, who are absolutely dominating, only to watch our forwardline break down so spectacularly at the other end.

Bowey kicking a goal yesterday was just so ironic. Of course one of our most talented ball users who is of course a defender, goes forward and nails a shot on goal. He must be wondering WTAF is going on.

It might be time to switch things up and look to push Bowey or McVee to a wing and/or half forward, because frankly if I have to keep watching the dysfunctional mess that is our forwardline, I am going to poke both my eyes out with a hot stick. 

[layzie 33,991]

20 minutes ago, BDA said:

The players are tired alright. Tired of huffing and puffing for no reward. It must be demoralising to dominate all the key stats and fail to convert.

I’ve had a good nights sleep and had a long walk with the dog this morning. I’m not as doom and gloom as I was yesterday evening. I’m hoping a dry game under the roof at Marvel might spark us. A JVR / BBB double act releases the tension. 1 good performance could turn our season. I live in hope.

One thing for sure, we have to change up the coaching ticket in the off season. I think we’ve gone stale and badly need some new voices and ideas. A Justin Leppitsch type would make a big difference I think.

Go Dees

Bam, nail hit sweetly by hammer. 

When you start a game with a few misses at can start to become a sideshow, when you miss more after that it can really flatten the mindset in front of goal and this is on a good day feeling fresh. Throw any sort of fatigue onto all of that and you could very well have a nice multiplier effect that is just going to torment the mind and send it to the pits of hell. All the running, the pressure, the getting back to setup the structure, it feels so much harder if you aren't converting up the other end. 

In this area of the game, one good performance good definitely turn it around. I'd even go as far as saying one great quarter in front of the sticks could get it going again, especially if it's the first quarter next week. That's really all you can hope for, you can't really coach harder on the track with skills. It's mental and sometimes you just need a good period with things going your way and it can turn.

In other words, sometimes you need a little luck. Just hope the damage isn't done. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by layzie

[Lucifers Hero 40,361]

9 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

I have a lot of sympathy for our defenders, who are absolutely dominating, only to watch our forward line break down so spectacularly at the other end.

Bowey kicking a goal yesterday was just so ironic. Of course one of our most talented ball users who is of course a defender, goes forward and nails a shot on goal. He must be wondering WTAF is going on.

It might be time to switch things up and look to push Bowey or McVee to a wing and/or half forward, because frankly if I have to keep watching the dysfunctional mess that is our forward line, I am going to poke both my eyes out with a hot stick. 

I also think our defence is outstanding.  Not sure yesterday was one of their better performances.

I doubt there will be many positional changes as this is the time we and other clubs bed down the best 22.  Having said that Fritsch's absence will force some sort of forward group rethink.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Lucifers Hero

[pitmaster 3,578]

10 hours ago, fr_ap said:

It's really not that simple, so tiring people say this as soon as someone can kick...'put them in the midfield'. 

In the midfield you generally do not have time to dispose of the ball properly. That's why most midfielders other than the very elite (Merrett, Bont) are considered poor kicks. Plus, all of a sudden you have responsibility for winning contested ball in outnumber situations. That's not Judd's go (yet). It's the same reason Salem doesn't play midfield. He ain't a midfielder 

A key being McVee is a slippery character able to find space where there is not much. The reason I think he's worth a run in the middle - as an outside mid - is his ability to evade tackles and create room (and time) for himself and he is a strong kick. Absolutely he is worth a run in there because it's our delivery into the forward 50 that must be fixed or we're going nowhere.

[layzie 33,991]

5 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

I have a lot of sympathy for our defenders, who are absolutely dominating, only to watch our forwardline break down so spectacularly at the other end.

Bowey kicking a goal yesterday was just so ironic. Of course one of our most talented ball users who is of course a defender, goes forward and nails a shot on goal. He must be wondering WTAF is going on.

It might be time to switch things up and look to push Bowey or McVee to a wing and/or half forward, because frankly if I have to keep watching the dysfunctional mess that is our forwardline, I am going to poke both my eyes out with a hot stick. 

And this is annoys me to no end about our sport: ANB played a less than spectacular game but had he kicked that goal late we all would have praised him as the hero, our backline balled out all day snuffing out some pretty threatening Giants attacks but because they lapsed late they are the villans. I know many on here are smarter than this but the general footy public watching on would absolutely see it this way.

In short, I have a lot of sympathy too. Converting better would take some heat off.

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

58 minutes ago, A F said:

Well, I'd disagree that fatigue is not a huge factor in why our accuracy has plummeted in the last 5 games. I'd say it's a combination of everything, but if you disregard fatigue in the picture and say loading is not a factor, you're sticking your head in the sand IMO. And I'm not saying you're doing that @Lucifers Hero, but there's some real knee jerk reactions on here, that I get to an extent, we were horrible yesterday, but let's look at the whole picture. 

Mate, if it was a huge factor, you'd be seeing similar results across all top teams. Which just isn't happening? 

The way you pick and choose what you see to suit this bs narrative is just nauseating. 

And you're at the same time talking Collingwood's form down by suggesting the Suns are fatigued because 'this is what happens to them in the second half of the year'. 

Do you realise how silly that sounds?!? By your loading logic, it should be Collingwood who struggled up there against the Suns. And the Power and Brisbane should also be seeing a dip in performance.. 

You're living in an echo-chamber and finding whatever you want to suit your argument. The head in sand stuff is you! 

 

[Jaded No More 68,974]

12 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I also think our defence is outstanding.  Not sure yesterday was one of their better performances.

I doubt there will be many positional changes as this is the time we and other clubs bed down the best 22.  Having said that Fritsch's absence will force some sort of forward group rethink.

We kept them to 12 scoring shots. Hard to complain about that, when they kept us to 90000 scoring shots, 89999 of them resulting in no score.