We will not win a flag with ...

[McLean Machine 0]

MFC will not win a premiership with T.Johnstone in their side he is a lazy footballer who does not do the 1 percent things on or off the ground. Likes the easy ball.

I hate to say this but same applies for doggy Brown not because he is lazy but because l think injuries have finally caught up with him and taken their toll on his body. The game has gone past him. He has been a good servant over the years and would be an ideal person to keep involved at the club in some capacity when he stops playing.

I also think the playing group has lost to much weight over summer, we cannot seem to win the hard ball any more, last year we were a hard team this year we have been soft.

[dees_rule_4eva 22]

Trav is someone we DO need to win a flag.

We will not win a flag with ......

1. Fair weather supporters who don't turn up to games just because the team isn't playing as well as they could be

2. Mark Jamar as back up ruckman. We either need to recruit one thru trade, or Paul Johnson needs to take the next step ... I think he can.

3. Nathan Brown and Simon Godfrey in the team. They are back up players at best, and unfortunately have needed to be called on more than would be wanted this year.

4. Brad Miller .... UNLESS he can start to kick goals. Look at any successful team, they have a standout CHF who can kick goals. West Coast have Hansen, Sydney have Hall, Port have Tredrea, Brisbane have Brown. It's a must.

[sylvinator 96]

we will not win a flag with daniher as coach.

simple as that.

[deeangel 2]

Sorry guys but I have had enough of the 'put downs' of our team and coach!

We would not win the flag if some of you 'experts' were the coach or on the match day committee or training the guys!

[dees_rule_4eva 22]

Sorry guys but I have had enough of the 'put downs' of our team and coach!

We would not win the flag if some of you 'experts' were the coach or on the match day committee or training the guys!

Im not putting the team down at all. Im putting my opinion forward about some of the problem areas facing our team, because as much we'd all like it to be, it aint perfect! And I don't profess to be an expert at all .... last time I checked this board was all about putting your opinions out there.

And in keeping with the spirit of things, I respect yours. :D

[deeangel 2]

Sure Dees Rule 4eva- I am not really pointing the finger at you - it is more about my frustrations on many threads of the constant same old arguments from some. For instance it is IMO naive to think changing the coach is the easy solution to our future success.

Of course it is the right of us all to have an open say on this site - I too am expressing my opinion.

I might add I totally agree about your point about fair weather supporters!

[dees_rule_4eva 22]

Sure Dees Rule 4eva- I am not really pointing the finger at you - it is more about my frustrations on many threads of the constant same old arguments from some. For instance it is IMO naive to think changing the coach is the easy solution to our future success.

Of course it is the right of us all to have an open say on this site - I too am expressing my opinion.

I might add I totally agree about your point about fair weather supporters!

Glad you understand.

And I totally agree with you about changing the coach. Sure, the buck stops with him, but as soon as we have a few wins, people on this site will do a backflip and start calling for him to be re-instated. Its a fickle world, football.

[dees64 104]

Sure Dees Rule 4eva- I am not really pointing the finger at you - it is more about my frustrations on many threads of the constant same old arguments from some. For instance it is IMO naive to think changing the coach is the easy solution to our future success.

Of course it is the right of us all to have an open say on this site - I too am expressing my opinion.

I might add I totally agree about your point about fair weather supporters!

People posting on this site are simply frustrated and have every right to question the coach who has been their for 10 yrs and the key weaknesess keep on raising their ugly heads.The players also need to be held accountable because the ones in question are the leaders in the group and consistantly go missing with things get tough.

Like any good organisation it needs to hold its employees accountable and measure their performances. How would you feel if you were a shareholder and the company produced smilar results would you not expect changes to be made and look to get the best people to get the desired result??

We should always support the team by buying memberships & going to games but expect people in charge to be holding people accountable

[deeangel 2]

Yes of course I would expect the board of any company to evaluate and monitor progress. That is the very point - we have to trust the system in place that the elected board by us 'shareholders' make learned decision based on facts and information that we are not privy too.

However all business have an ebb and flow of profit and losses and they are judged over a longer period than 5 matches into a season. Knee jerk reactions after every loss is so predictable. The 10 years of ND development has been under extraordinary difficult circumstances and I think we have done well to survive- remember it wasn't long ago we were nearly gone as an organisation. We should actually be glad that ND has stuck by us- it must be very difficult for him to see the finances and facilities of many teams he has to compete with.

Sometimes it is better for a company to work together to reach the desired gaols. Changing personnel can often backfire and lose a lot of the team building that was in place and not always solve the problem.

[DemonDoug 0]

People posting on this site are simply frustrated and have every right to question the coach who has been their for 10 yrs and the key weaknesess keep on raising their ugly heads.

Your spot on dees64, we are frustrated, and we have every right to be. Whatever anyone says MFC does not give its supporters 100% so I fail to see how it can expect the supporters to keep the faith all the time. I would go to more matches if I knew I was going to see a totally committed team not committing basic skill errors, win or lose.

However criticism and rehashing a littany of gripes about the team and coach achieves little, we have to deal with reality. I do not see the point of speculating about the next coach, ND will no doubt do the best he can, lets hope there is another twist in the MFC story this year, perhaps starting this week. One win will make us all feel much better.

[Guest dee'viator]

Sorry guys but I have had enough of the 'put downs' of our team and coach!

We would not win the flag if some of you 'experts' were the coach or on the match day committee or training the guys!

Just maybe some of the posters here have been/are close to AFL onfield action & have experience & nouse over simply just being a weekend supporter, now 'deeangel', how would you know them.

[Gouga 508]

It is not as simple as saying we won't win a premiership with TJ. He is just one player. Teams win premierships!

Look at the WCE last year. Armstrong, Butler, Brett & Rohan Jones were all in that side. How many of those players would get a game before TJ at Melb?

The point is there is no individual capable of preventing us from winning a premiership.

Melb needs to make some serious efforts to improve all aspects of the team. When the team regains form TJ will be there playing that all important classy midfielder role.

[QueenC 74]

Really well said Gouga, you are spot on ......

All players have certain strengths and weaknesses that can contribute to, and sometimes harm the success of any team.

But it is still a team, and while every one has a weakest link, it is not that simple to say "without him we are going to be the champions".

And frankly, I would like to see a hell of a lot more team work, eg shepherding, which seems to have become an optional extra for everyone within the Dees team at the moment, rather that anyone trying for any particular individual glory.

And maybe, just maybe this would be a stepping stone to any future success we may have.

[Freak 100]

We will not win until the coaching staff start listening to me, that is:

Green goes up forward

Bruce goes forward

Miller goes out

Davey full-time forward

I go as the recruiting manager for the footy club. (We should have picked up Alwyn for starters. I knew it all along) I also said that Pickett was a wasted pick-up as we weren't in our premiership window anyway. Stop throwing away picks Melbourne!

Danny Hughes in the team(Some players blossom when the standard is raised. He would if he was played)

[Rogue 585]

And I totally agree with you about changing the coach. Sure, the buck stops with him, but as soon as we have a few wins, people on this site will do a backflip and start calling for him to be re-instated. Its a fickle world, football.

So if I want my opinion to be taken seriously, and not have it derided as the postings of a fickle poster, I need to point out that I wasn't a fan of ND in 2000 either?

[occo 2]

Trav is someone we DO need to win a flag.

We will not win a flag with ......

1. Fair weather supporters who don't turn up to games just because the team isn't playing as well as they could be

2. Mark Jamar as back up ruckman. We either need to recruit one thru trade, or Paul Johnson needs to take the next step ... I think he can.

3. Nathan Brown and Simon Godfrey in the team. They are back up players at best, and unfortunately have needed to be called on more than would be wanted this year.

4. Brad Miller .... UNLESS he can start to kick goals. Look at any successful team, they have a standout CHF who can kick goals. West Coast have Hansen, Sydney have Hall, Port have Tredrea, Brisbane have Brown. It's a must.

TJ once and still is my favourite player. However i really am disappointed. I don't think anyone out there could say that he has shown evidence of a round 1 pick...and i would be astonished if someone did believe he has shown those qualities. I think TJ has got the skills and attributes. Hes a match winner, can kick pracisly and kick goals. Reads the play better than any player, is caragious too. I watched the 2006 Brissy v Melb game an hour ago and TJ had 100% accuracy level. For years i have loved him but yeah i guess saying dissopointed has been said. The 1997 draft consisted of:

1. TJ

2. Ottens

3. Croad

4. Mark Bolton

5. Luke Power

6. James Walker

7. Kris Mackie

8. Tarrant

9. Chad Cornes

10. Shane O'Bree

In TJ's defence there are 4 players i rate more than him: Croad, Power, Tarrant and Cornes. I guess the draft wasnt fantastic: http://www.answers.com/topic/1997-afl-draft (heres the site for thoes of u playing at home)

I honestly believe we should concider trading TJ. I know it will be tough, i will be bitterly sad too but i cant see him getting any better. He is coming into his 10th year. I think we could get a player who will be better (LONG TERM) than TJ has shown and long term is now our focus. There are a number of players like:

Rhyce Prismall(brother of brent) - Plays for Western Jets and played Metro last year as a bottom ager. Listed as 189cm/86kg and plays as an athletic third tall type but can play midfield

Matthew Kruizer - Very promising ruckmen, 197 cm's now and 95 kg's. Got great disposal, is the a tap ruckman in the U16 age group in australia. Vic Metro U16 MVP, Runner up Vic Metro U16 best and fairest and to cap off a great carnival AIS selection.

Chris Varsamarkis. This kid is intimidating, he is huge. He can kick amazing on both feet. Left Footer, but does use both, quite a powerful kick on the left. Played HBF/HFF.

Meese - Tap ruckman who gets his fair share of the ball all over the ground. Can play forward

Dan Curry: a 196cm ruckmen with potential. Made U16 Vic Metro side

Brett Meredith: midfielder 184cm who played 6/7 games for knights U18's this year. Very good in congestion, he is an inside midfielder capable of busting open packs with his 80+ kg frame. He is a great finisher, gets forward and kicks goals with his clean foot skills. He has a lot of pace and endurance. Vic Metro U16 rep in 2005, has what it takes to go all the way.

Tim Bongetti - 193 cm, 91 kilos and plays FF for Knights. Very, Very quick for a man 193 cm. Best quality: pack marks, weakness: height for a FF

Veszpermi, Meredith, Cotchin, Stanton, Tantis-Hall (all vic metro/ais)

I really like the look of Kruizer tho. I have said this many times on demonland but this kid has the goods. He is tall enough, has excellent speed and can absolutly domonate the ruck. Has excelent communication with his midfielders of where to run and timing so they can collect when the tap happens.

I am really excited with this years draft and will pop down to TAC games at box hill throu the year. To be totally honest i think melb should come last...i really do. I cant see us being a contender with Jamar and Johnson. We need some quality players that will be no doubt AA ruckman in the future. I also think we need a FF player...perhaps Bongetti. But to move forward i think TJ must be sacrifised as sad as it is to say.

The other players that will never win us a premiership are:

Miller - in my opinion is trade bait and dunn being #1 CHF will take twice as quick to develop if in the 22 week in week out

Brown - Gets a lot of possessions but has ALWAYS worried me. Being at the games watching him he gets himself into all sorts of trouble and is forced to rush. I ALWAYS cringe when the balls in his hands in the backline as he more often than not plays on and gets tackled or puts himself under pressure.

Apart from thoes 2 i dont think there would be any other players. I dont think this is an issue yet as we will not make a grand final this year, we must however look at the future and trade Miller and TJ. Anyway thats my point of view and although off track a bit, im excited about the young kids in the draft and will be shattered if we cant land Kruizer

[occo 2]

We will not win until the coaching staff start listening to me, that is:

Green goes up forward

Bruce goes forward

Miller goes out

Davey full-time forward

I go as the recruiting manager for the footy club. (We should have picked up Alwyn for starters. I knew it all along) I also said that Pickett was a wasted pick-up as we weren't in our premiership window anyway. Stop throwing away picks Melbourne!

Danny Hughes in the team(Some players blossom when the standard is raised. He would if he was played)

Agreed with all that but Pickett. I think in fairness to melb we were in a premiership window but we fu**** it up once again like useral.

I do agree with davey forward amongst Green but not bruce. He is very good in the midfield and if u flood ur forward line with too much talent and jepodise the midfield then u sacrifise not getting the ball into the forward line.

I as coach would:

* Like to see bartram play midfield

* Davey to play forward pocket

* Green to play pocket

* Miller traded and Dunn at CHF

* Sylvia not dropped and instead played half forward pocket

* Like to be recruiting manager myself as i have a good background of the young kids and take a great interest in recerching about them and watching lots of TAC games.

* Melb to bottom out this year and get Kruizer (see post above)

* Trade TJ (see above)

At the end of the day melb need to look forward. Its inevitable that we will at some point bottom out so why not that be this year, get some quality picks from bottoming out and trades and rebuild this club with some KPP's. The shopping list is

1. Ruckman

2. FB - i just dont rate carroll

3. A utility capable of playing CHF or forward in the emmergancy a forward is injured

4. Midfielders

5. Back Pocket

[QueenC 74]

Improving the list is one thing, but wow, winning a premiership must be easy.......

Since it seems all we have to do is get rid of some unpopular players.

[melbournefc 18]

1. Supporters need to stick with us or go away for good. I hate the thought of Melbourne Football Club accomodating bandwagon supporters.

2. Play direct footy and go hard at the contest one on one.

The result of this, a PREMIERSHIP. It's simple really.

[loges 6,090]

We will not win until the coaching staff start listening to me, that is:

Green goes up forward

Bruce goes forward

Miller goes out

Davey full-time forward

I go as the recruiting manager for the footy club. (We should have picked up Alwyn for starters. I knew it all along) I also said that Pickett was a wasted pick-up as we weren't in our premiership window anyway. Stop throwing away picks Melbourne!

Danny Hughes in the team(Some players blossom when the standard is raised. He would if he was played)

Pickett was one of the main reasons we went as far as we did last year. It was no coincidence when he did his hamstring was when we started to struggle. Has let us down this year though by presenting so unfit

[Chelly 742]

... the interstate sides go into liquidation.

[mauriesy 6,811]

The players also need to be held accountable because the ones in question are the leaders in the group and consistently go missing with things get tough.

Am I happy with the performance in 2007 of experienced players like TJ, White, Yze, Pickett and Miller? Of course not. They set an example as older members of the team in terms of their application and they are all down on form (some a lot, some a little).

But can we clear up this "leadership" thing? The leadership group is Neitz and McLean (both of whom have been injured for four weeks), Green (also injured last week), McDonald and Bruce (who I don't think you can really criticise in terms of how hard they are trying).

The ones in question are actually not the "leaders" in the group, unless you mean simply that every older player is a "leader".

[mauriesy 6,811]

We will not win until the coaching staff start listening to me, that is:

... Bruce goes forward

So at a time when we lack running power, you'd waste one of our most aerobically capable run-with players by plonking him cold in the forward line?

Davey full-time forward

He's not a full-forward. He's too light for a start. He's a player who is better playing across the whole forward line where his speed is useful, applying forward line pressure by chasing out of defence, and feeding off bigger forwards like Neitz or Robertson. Problem is we haven't had Neitz or Robertson.

I also said that Pickett was a wasted pick-up as we weren't in our premiership window anyway. Stop throwing away picks Melbourne!

Pickett was one of the players who made the team a lot harder last year. Just what we needed at the time.

Danny Hughes in the team(Some players blossom when the standard is raised. He would if he was played)

Maybe one day Hughes will make the team. But at the moment he's not good enough.

[timetobrock 0]

One may remember a certain Adelaide final a few years ago where Travis Johnstone played the best game of his life. In this match he did get the hard ball, he did use it and in a quarter he ran whichever opponent he had off his feet. Unfortunately he has never been able to replicate this performance and consistently dominate games for a whole season, which is what most of us expect. His performance this year has been very ordinary, but he is a big game player, and someome we need firing if we are to go close in finals.

Bruce move forward - At this stage of the year, with TJ out of touch and Brock out, that is not an option. He is too good a midfielder.

Trade Miller - He is the scapegoat of angry supporters and he shouldn't be. Why do we expect him to be Hall/Tredrea/Riewoldt? He is hard working, honest, and hard at the ball. Hansen is hardly a goalkicking machine either. To assume that simply trading Miller would deliver us the next Riewoldt is a bit optimisitc.

Davey permanent forward - In the AFL there are about 5 players who are good enough to play exclusively as a small forward. Davey may be one of these, but he is more useful being able to play both roles. If our team was top 4 maybe we could afford the luxury of Davey as a forward pocket but for now we need him in the midfield.

Get rid of Godfrey - He is earning his spot at the moment. But he really should not have stayed at Melbourne so long. An elite team should demand standards of skill. Whilst Godfrey's work ethic and dedication is beyond reproach, it has been apparent since his first game that his skill levels are not good enough for an elite team. He needs to go. Nicholson (already gone) and P Johnson also fall into this category.

Give Bizzel an opportunity - A team ravaged by injuries, and Biz can't get a run. I'm not sure of Danihers prejudices but Bizzel was our best player 4 seasons ago. It seems now his delisting is all but confirmed as he got dropped last week for 2 first gamers. I'm all for looking for the future but really Daniher needs to provide an answer for this.

Finally, the argument that melbourne don't give us 100% so I shouldn't go to games is a load of crap. If you don't go to the games because you are [censored] off about the performance, you really have no right to post here.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,239]

Travis Johnstone simply can't handle a tag. With McLean out, the opposition have targeted TJ as out key man.

Sewell (who we stupidly refused to trade for Ferguson late 2005) rendered him useless. 10 touches from TJ

McVeigh rendered him useless last week. 10 touches from TJ.

There really isn't anything ND can do about the matter, until McLean comes in the side. ND has experimented with TJ in the foward line without success.

Maybe try him at half back this week, or get him to tag a Burgoyne if he has any defensive skills.

You could use TJ's mystery injury as an excuse, but since their playing him, we as supporters expect a 100% output from any player that takes the field....otherwise don't play him.