SO ITS COME TO THIS

[layzie 34,326]

We should definitely read the riot act. Purely because it sounds cool. 

[Deestar9 1,771]

12 hours ago, IRW said:

In theory we could still finish on top more likely 4th and that's a tad optimistic on current form. 

We have pretended they have been loading for the last 8 games( I mean seriously?),  took a  while to get going early because they started late (Premiers after all) and recently lost to Geelong because we tricked them into showing everything and we showed nothing ( it keeps gets better and better).

My theory is that injuries have been an  important problem and lack of professionalism  crucial.

What to do? 

I reckon they are good enough..look at the stats over the season and the challenge is really in the hands in the coaches...Goodwin especially.

Plan B ?????( at long last)????perhaps restructure game day plans that no one will see coming according to the opposition.

It won't  be Petty up forward; in case you haven't noticed he's patching up a backline that needs help and doing it admirably..why would you move him ?

Stop wasting Kossie "defending " kick ins..he's not an AAA+ battery robot ffs.

Suggest a move that includes May kicking in occasionally to the right hand side..NO ONE will see that coming@

If someone is sore..give him a rest NOW.

Try one  , just one, left field promotion from the " twos".

Read the riot act.....then get Choco to do one one commentary where there are pieces to pick up.

You guys are obviously experts (especially Bluey) let's hear some common sense and no mention of Weideman 

My take on the season & how it is unfolding 

1. Injuries…the type of player we have lost & also injuries in games have hurt us badly this season …didn’t have that issue last season . That has meant players in different positions or playing in different structures which brings a lot of different pressures. Players missing big chunks of the season will take quite a few weeks to pick up their game form & there are no easy games to do  it in. You can’t change your whole game plan because we lost TMac so it’s figuring out in season the best options. Also VFL this season is def below par & so to me it makes sense to play Gawn & Jacko into form in the AFL. I watch the VFL closely and am a tad reluctant to get too carried away with players form in that comp 

2. Every team has had 6 months to study us & work out a plan to beat us. We are the Premiers & the Hunted & nearly every team we have played this season has played out of their skins. So the players have to learn a different type of mental resilience & pressure along with getting themselves up every week. I don’t think it’s a surprise that our younger players are often in our bottom 6 or so.
3. Of course there is loading etc which is just another factor and would contribute in some way to our current form. 
I absolutely believe we are a

” work in progress” and don’t doubt the belief and talent of our  coaches and fitness staff …they gave us probably the hardest premiership to win &

deserve our support. It’s a really tough year and will things turn …I hope so. Have no doubt that when MFC is on we are still the team to beat . Our form in the last 4 games of the season will give us the answers. 

[von 1,572]

10 hours ago, fr_ap said:

And you like so many with blind hope seem unable to separate observations on current form from the team in general.

We have a great team - a premiership winning team, with game breaking stars, good young players, a once rock solid system, and collective mindset and buy-in. I love this team.

But at the moment (and for large parts of the year if we are honest), it's not been functioning as it should.

We managed to stack wins against teams we now know are not challengers.

When we've met those at the top, particularly Freo and Geelong, we've failed pretty emphatically so far. You'll call out a range of excuses no doubt, mostly speculative and unconfirmed ideas such as loading, keeping our cards close to our chest or that we led during the game or were 'within a kick' (if only Pickett kicked the goal you say....what about the 8 gettable' set shots Geelong missed? If behinds are an excuse for us they are then equally a reason for them to claim dominance despite scoreboard)

We're still a good team and as I said, we can figure it out. But this current iteration isn't winning the flag. It's an inescapable conclusion for anyone who even tries to watch objectively and pays opposition teams the respect they deserve. 

Short memory. Do you remember the middle part of last year at all and how ordinary we looked? If you’re going to bag everyone who isn’t a doomy gloomy such and such at least be accurate. Most loaders have discussed how we looked just as poor during this period last year. Which is accurate. Yes injuries play a part as well. Also no one thinks oh it’s fine we will still win the flag. They think we will show a lot more before the season is done. That’s never been a guarantee of a flag. 

[von 1,572]

This thread sounds like the guy who says “I’m not being negative, sometimes a realist comes across as negative because others can’t handle reality” or something along those lines. But in reality they are indeed a negative Nelly 

[IRW 1,388]

12 hours ago, Kozzie4PM said:

We are in the second best position we've been in my lifetime at this stage of the year. I'm genuinely excited about the next 2-3 months.

Ah there you go .

I am happy for you ,I just think we need a  little  movement at the station ,or whatever it is they call home these days.

Not too much though as you can see I speculated we could finish top of the table from here 

Mind you this is familiar territory for me ..two flags and a regular final four supporter 

Ho hum   ( smile)

[drysdale demon 4,837]

19 hours ago, adonski said:

Unfortunately Simple Simon is not capable of such shrewd tactics...and I say it with a heavy heart

That would be the same simple simon who has coached the club to 35 wins out of the last 43 games including the premiership, okay Einstein. Now there are areas of the game that most likely do require a bit of the tweak, but there is no need to bag him.

[1964_2 2,357]

8 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

That would be the same simple simon who has coached the club to 35 wins out of the last 43 games including the premiership, okay Einstein. Now there are areas of the game that most likely do require a bit of the tweak, but there is no need to bag him.

It feels like a % of supporters are resigned to it only being a matter of time before Goody turns into Mark Neeld, and the club needs to go through another lengthy rebuild.

I knew “expectation” and “dealing with success” was something players/teams have to adjust to :- but wasn’t aware it’s something supporters go through. 
 

[Older demon 2,799]

It is often said that Centre Half Forward is the hardest position to play but possibly the most important. Like it or not whether he is in good form or out Tom McDonald plays that role and since his injury, we have not been able to adequately fill that post or find someone to play that role.

The game plan that has been successful looks predictable and inefficient without Tom or his successor able to play that role. Last week with BBB playing lead-up forward in the first half we looked good but then he was stuck at full forward and starved of opportunity. Max and Jacko can stretch a backline with BBB, Fritter and TMac and roving smalls in Kosi, Spargo and Nibbler.

A feature of the games we have lost was how much we have been out marked specially in the forward line and how the incoming kick has been directed to an opposing back. Look at how Curnow and Cameron straighten up the Dogs and Blues. The impact Lobb is having at Free and the bit part Taberner plays. Mihochek at Collingwood plays a TMac like role and runs far and wide to get marks and possession. When we play Weed and BBB we have them both plonked in the goal square and bomb it long.

For all the criticism he gets Tom plays a pivotal role in our forward structure and thus far we haven't had anyone step up to play that role.

[IRW 1,388]

20 hours ago, 1964_2 said:

Wine, beers, both or other? 

Do you follow Nagarjuna?

[fr_ap 2,541]

7 hours ago, von said:

Short memory. Do you remember the middle part of last year at all and how ordinary we looked? If you’re going to bag everyone who isn’t a doomy gloomy such and such at least be accurate. Most loaders have discussed how we looked just as poor during this period last year. Which is accurate. Yes injuries play a part as well. Also no one thinks oh it’s fine we will still win the flag. They think we will show a lot more before the season is done. That’s never been a guarantee of a flag. 

'At least be accurate' ? I already debunked the 'we looked just as poor last year' idea in another thread pasted below. 

Not only are you proving my point by implying what happened before will happen again, you're also wrong. At no point last year were we losing in the manner we have this year - statistically, stylistically nor to the challenging teams (as outlined in that thread, the Bulldogs loss was very even with free kicks the major difference). Look at the scoring shots, look at inside 50s, look at marks inside 50, look at how/where we conceded our goals. Watch the games again. I have. 

My memory isn't short - yours is blurry.

When I presented the opposing optimist with these facts & asked for the basis of his confidence - his response was he has faith in the FD. Nothing objective to explain our performances.

The loaders present an argument they think is objective and I find much of that analysis interesting - but truthfully it is  speculative. I'd be beyond happy to eat my words if we spring back to best version of the Dees & a coach/player announces loading was the reason. 

I'm actually not trying to be 'doomy gloomy' and definitely didn't bag anyone - at worst I said "those with blind hope". Hardly an insult, particularly when one of the effected already admitted to me this is the basis of his confidence. 

I'm here for no reason other than engaging in analytical discussion on my team. I appreciate the collective passion we have is perhaps not conducive to that discussion, but I'm at least trying to bring an objective view. I fully expect most will not understand or partake in that discussion for fear of what it could mean. I have the same discussion in person with my brother, who just doesn't want to hear the reasons it could come undone. He sees it though & is aware of it, as I suspect you & many others are too. 

If objectivity apparently = MFCSS then by all means give me the label 

Would love to be wrong 

[drysdale demon 4,837]

1 hour ago, 1964_2 said:

It feels like a % of supporters are resigned to it only being a matter of time before Goody turns into Mark Neeld, and the club needs to go through another lengthy rebuild.

I knew “expectation” and “dealing with success” was something players/teams have to adjust to :- but wasn’t aware it’s something supporters go through. 
 

I think it applies more to supporters, you only have to read the threads after the grand final, during pre season and the first 10 weeks of this season.

[Billy 2,563]

8 hours ago, IRW said:

Ah there you go .

I am happy for you ,I just think we need a  little  movement at the station ,or whatever it is they call home these days.

Not too much though as you can see I speculated we could finish top of the table from here 

Mind you this is familiar territory for me ..two flags and a regular final four supporter 

Ho hum   ( smile)

How dare you have a negative opinion on how we’re going (l agree with you by the way)If anyone thinks we’re travelling well are kidding themselves 

Our forward line is a shambles at the moment, the smalls are not applying  pressure or kicking goals like last year,

Our talls have been totally ineffective since Tmac went down 

Our backline has kept us in it along with our elite mids, but with injuries to McDonald, Max, Jacko & Clarry it’s going to be a real struggle to make top four

 

[von 1,572]

28 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

'At least be accurate' ? I already debunked the 'we looked just as poor last year' idea in another thread pasted below. 

Not only are you proving my point by implying what happened before will happen again, you're also wrong. At no point last year were we losing in the manner we have this year - statistically, stylistically nor to the challenging teams (as outlined in that thread, the Bulldogs loss was very even with free kicks the major difference). Look at the scoring shots, look at inside 50s, look at marks inside 50, look at how/where we conceded our goals. Watch the games again. I have. 

My memory isn't short - yours is blurry.

When I presented the opposing optimist with these facts & asked for the basis of his confidence - his response was he has faith in the FD. Nothing objective to explain our performances.

The loaders present an argument they think is objective and I find much of that analysis interesting - but truthfully it is  speculative. I'd be beyond happy to eat my words if we spring back to best version of the Dees & a coach/player announces loading was the reason. 

I'm actually not trying to be 'doomy gloomy' and definitely didn't bag anyone - at worst I said "those with blind hope". Hardly an insult, particularly when one of the effected already admitted to me this is the basis of his confidence. 

I'm here for no reason other than engaging in analytical discussion on my team. I appreciate the collective passion we have is perhaps not conducive to that discussion, but I'm at least trying to bring an objective view. I fully expect most will not understand or partake in that discussion for fear of what it could mean. I have the same discussion in person with my brother, who just doesn't want to hear the reasons it could come undone. He sees it though & is aware of it, as I suspect you & many others are too. 

If objectivity apparently = MFCSS then by all means give me the label 

Would love to be wrong 

There are performance trends that correlate very strongly with last year. It’s a matter of when we play teams not who we play. We’ve hit contenders in our mid season run this time with other factors such as injury also playing a part. We looked just as sluggish last year but the stats will be different because we are playing different teams in different positions. Stats don’t tell the whole story. Injuries tell a lot of the story too. Teams trying different methods against us are also part of it. I’m not sure why losses to contenders are worse than the losses last year to bottom dwellers by the way.
 

When I say what will happen once will happen again that doesn’t translate to a result, it translates to our ability to perform at an optimal level. This doesn’t guarantee a win. I go to all our home games and without question there is a difference from us against the saints or tigers or whoever else from early in the year in the way we cover the ground, get off the mark and get  to the contest etc. I didn’t have the luxury of being at the ground v Geelong but we were slow off the mark, which is all I could see on tv. That to me says sluggish. Even without loading as a factor, the 5 day break and a tough, hard game in Adelaide against a 5 day break and a training run against a team that rivals us at our worst could explain the difference there. I’d also throw in kardinia park being no good for us. I was tearing my hair out at times last year during winter. The gws game in particular, after the Adelaide and Collingwood losses really worried me. I wrote us off. Things changed and I think they will again but you are right it is speculative. All of it is. The running in mud look is awfully familiar and doesn’t last forever. That’s where my hope lies.

I think everyone is trying to be objective when they talk about our performance. We are all doing various versions of guessing though. The loading argument is speculative but it isn’t without merit. It’s been admitted to this year by Geelong and us last year. There are signs of it across premiership teams of years past when seasons are looked back at. The only real difference I see between your analysis and the loading is the loaders are trying to view things over a longer time scale. Im Sure some of our short terms stats worry the coaching group week to week, no doubt. But there are layers of perspective to look at them through. I just think wait off a few weeks before the doom and gloom kicks in too hard based on last year, and I don’t think that is a ridiculous stance.

[DEE fence 5,045]

Biggest downside to losing is the trolls come out to play, that and Essendon/Carlton supporters being up and about...Personally I think an 8th forum called 'Troll-land' should be created on Demonland wedged between General Discussion and Forum Help. Anyone condemned by the mods as a consistent mouth-breather should be locked in there, and we can visit them and poke them with sticks etc. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by DEE fence
Spelling

[DeeSpencer 26,265]

I’d rehash my complaints about not turning over the list but that’s kind of useless now.

The biggest thing we need to do is find the balance between plan A and the change ups. 

Short kicking, switching, getting the ball to the corridor and fat side, rolling half backs in behind the attack to lock the ball forward. All perfectly achievable things for us to do if we add just a touch more risk and flair to the side.

Personell wise: Can potential shuffle some flankers and there’s a mix of options with talls. But not convinced the answer lies there 

[Vipercrunch 2,847]

3 hours ago, fr_ap said:

'At least be accurate' ? I already debunked the 'we looked just as poor last year' idea in another thread pasted below. 

 

Debunked???  That’s hilarious.  You provided an opposing view which I doubt would have changed any minds.

During the middle part of last season we were virtually unscathed by injuries, scoring less, being scored against more and playing and losing to worse opposition teams than we have been playing his year.  It is only your imagination to think we were in better shape.

 

[layzie 34,326]

2 hours ago, DEE fence said:

Biggest downside to losing is the trolls come out to play, that and Essendon/Carlton supporters being up and about...Personally I think an 8th forum called 'Troll-land' should be created on Demonland wedged between General Discussion and Forum Help. Anyone condemned by the mods as a consistent mouth-breather should be locked in there, and we can visit them and poke them with sticks etc. 

At least it gives a chance for freedom of speech!

[Smokey 4,389]

🤦‍♂️

[layzie 34,326]

On 7/12/2022 at 8:48 PM, adonski said:

Brayshaw into the guts is the SPARK we need. It'll massively boost the output of Salem & Bowza too.

Unfortunately Simple Simon is not capable of such shrewd tactics...and I say it with a heavy heart

The guy who started the Is Goodwin the right guy thread also said it with a heavy heart.