Melbournes Development

[occo 2]

Hey guys,

I have been a regular poster on here for the last fortnight. I would like to ask you guys as to why u believe ND is not playing our young kids early in the season. I cant remember the last time he played a player early in the season. Even Bate, Dunn, Jones all came in 1/3 of the way in. The exception of Bartram. Following this question is do u think Buckley will ever be given much of a chance under the raine of ND.

My second question is, do u think Jamar can be our 10 year premium ruckman. I have my doubts and although ND has given this bloke time, he is still behing some players in the leigue playing less than 1/3 of the games he has. Thoughts?

[Jarka 767]

Dunn and Bartram are injured, but I think the our coach thought that we were in a position to have a crack at the title this year, so playing the kids would be a no no. The other issue is that for the first time our coach is a real chance to not have his contract extended...

[Adzman 2,154]

Buckley got a good run in the preseason which suggest he is on the selection radar. Expect him to make a push towards the middle of the year.

Frawley would have been playing now if it were not for his injury.

Pettard has impressed also. I imagine at some point buckley, frawley and pettard will get a run in the red and blue in 07.

Dunn will be back in the next month due to injuries to neita and robbo. Will be good to see him develop some more.

[astrodee 0]

Jamar is 23 years old, and came off the rookie list. Ruckman take time to develop. Until into last season, he had very little AFL game time. Apart from Newman last year, he has had very little GOOD ruck coaching. Juice Newton is currently coaching our rucks - although he looked highly promising in his 13 (?) games, that hardly qualifies him as an AFL ruck coach. And it's showing on the field with all our rucks.

Daniher obviously doesn't have real faith in many of the kids - selects them late, gives them little field time when he does (barring a few notable exceptions), usually drops them quickly unless they are very impressive early (or,of course, they become favourites). Kills their confidence. But he continues to give Gogfrey games - yes he's all heart, but he only shines when 15 players play badly; other teams isolate him - encouraging his teammates to give him the ball so that he can continue his 30.4% clanger kick rate and his 29% clanger handballs (2006 stats) - so with 13.7 average disposals, only about 9 were hitting targets. Gee, that's better than playing a kid.

I would prefer to head into tomorrow, than keep repeating yesterday. Not so our glorious rev.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Juice Newton is currently coaching our rucks

? Did I miss something there? Or is that a typo?

Occo. Fair enough questions I guess, and as highlighted above, he's playing mature players simply because he believes you can't win a game by playing too many kids. As he said on the footy show, his primary job is to win, and it makes it harder for him to coach if he has too many unknown entities who are at the moment one-dimensional running around.

As far as Jamar goes, if you're asking my opinion, then the answer is no. He's struggling at the moment to maintain the second-ruck role. If he played full time in the ruck? Welll we could do worse, but as far as my powers of prediction are concerned, he'll never scale the heights of White or Stynes. Figuratively or literally speaking. We need to look elsewhere.

[beelzebub 23,383]

? Did I miss something there? Or is that a typo?

im still not sure what to say to that .. are we back to raffles and whip arounds to pay for jumpers ?? thats just plain idiotic !!

its not still April 1 is it ?

(post aimed at the idea that Juice is our ruck coach!! )

[astrodee 0]

No typo. Leigh 'Juice' Newton is, by his own admission (brave man) coaching our rucks as well as being the club's media manager. It was in the papers last week (or the week before). He played about 13 games before the dreaded OP (or some other permanent groin injury) ended his career. IMHO he could have been anything - except an AFL ruck coach.

[beelzebub 23,383]

I thought getting Sammy was actually quite inspired... No disrespect intended to Leigh.. but !! we are trying to play in the same league as others arent we ?? <_<

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Right. Thanks for that. Makes sense doesn't it?!

[beelzebub 23,383]

sense.... MFC... ??

[Yze_Magic 3]

My second question is, do u think Jamar can be our 10 year premium ruckman. I have my doubts and although ND has given this bloke time, he is still behing some players in the leigue playing less than 1/3 of the games he has. Thoughts?

Jamar is a shocker

Forget about premium ruckman. If Sandilands is Porterhouse steak, then Jamar is a can of Spam

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

sense.... MFC... ??

Juice Newton coaching the rucks. Different Juice.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

No typo. Leigh 'Juice' Newton is, by his own admission (brave man) coaching our rucks as well as being the club's media manager. It was in the papers last week (or the week before). He played about 13 games before the dreaded OP (or some other permanent groin injury) ended his career. IMHO he could have been anything - except an AFL ruck coach.

No. He did a knee.

Why could he not be an AFL ruck coach?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I thought getting Sammy was actually quite inspired... No disrespect intended to Leigh.. but !! we are trying to play in the same league as others arent we ?? <_<

Sam Newman was only doing mentoring. He was not in an official position as ruck coach. Different obligations and time commitments.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Jamar is 23 years old, and came off the rookie list. Ruckman take time to develop. Until into last season, he had very little AFL game time. Apart from Newman last year, he has had very little GOOD ruck coaching. Juice Newton is currently coaching our rucks - although he looked highly promising in his 13 (?) games, that hardly qualifies him as an AFL ruck coach. And it's showing on the field with all our rucks.

Daniher obviously doesn't have real faith in many of the kids - selects them late, gives them little field time when he does (barring a few notable exceptions), usually drops them quickly unless they are very impressive early (or,of course, they become favourites). Kills their confidence. But he continues to give Gogfrey games - yes he's all heart, but he only shines when 15 players play badly; other teams isolate him - encouraging his teammates to give him the ball so that he can continue his 30.4% clanger kick rate and his 29% clanger handballs (2006 stats) - so with 13.7 average disposals, only about 9 were hitting targets. Gee, that's better than playing a kid.

I would prefer to head into tomorrow, than keep repeating yesterday. Not so our glorious rev.

What does qualify as an AFL ruck coach and how would you know? Anything to do with the fact of the lack of funds at MFC.

Its pure crap we dont play our youth. They would be a critical part of our push this year.

The following players with approx 60 games or 3 years are in or would be in our team if it were not for injury.

Bartram

McLean

Sylvia

CJ

Bate

Bell

Jones

Dunn

Certainly Pettard and Frawley would have been in the mix if not injured.

Thats 10 players out of 22.

[Seekers SEECAMP 0]

No. He did a knee.

Why could he not be an AFL ruck coach?

And why could he?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I was not putting a case for.

I was enquiring why a person should be ruled out based purely on the number of games played. What does the poster know about Newton other than number of games?

[beelzebub 23,383]

Sam Newman was only doing mentoring. He was not in an official position as ruck coach. Different obligations and time commitments.

yep ...fully aware he was a part timer.. ..part of what I thought was a good idea... " band of mentors"

5 mins with Newman is going to be more insightful than 5 months with Leigh..thats just a reality. Newman brings vast experience and understanding of the game.. .. enough said !!

[pringle 42]

If anyone watched Sandy last week, they would be equally amazed as i am that petterd was even considered for selection. Did SFA on the day. Garland, on the other hand, was reasonably impressive early. And Newton had a shocker. Looks like he wants to do the impossible every time he gets the ball, rather than play smart, sensible footy. Buckly was ok, but far from AFL standard. The youth ranks are nowhere near playing AFL footy at this point, and I'm not too excited about the future of any of those boys. Maybe Buckly if he can produce similar form to that shown against the Hawks in the 1st half of the NAB cup game. I'm not surprised Daniher won't play the youngsters.

[astrodee 0]

I was not putting a case for.

I was enquiring why a person should be ruled out based purely on the number of games played. What does the poster know about Newton other than number of games?

Watched every game he played. And it was persistent groin injuries that undid him. He was more a KPP than a ruckman, despite his height. And looking at the ruck coaches around the league @ the mo, not one has played less than 100 games in the ruck at the required level. Rucking is a skill picked up over many years of playing in the position. Although a little bloke (HFF), I played over 150 VCFL and TFL games and always marvelled at how ruckmen just kept getting better when they gor into their late 20's and early 30's with heaps of experience. I am friendly with a bloke who played over 200 VFL games as a ruckman, and has ruck coached at 4 clubs - good experienced ruck coaches make a big difference.

Sammy spent almost a day a week with our rucks last year. He was 300 gamer who was a very smart ruckman in his day. Prior to him I think Darren Flanagan (ex Geelong) was our ruck coach. It appears to me that our rucks have gone backwards so far this year. We dont have many $, I know, but a good ruck coach is essential when 3 ruckmen (including rookie) are as inexperienced as ours are.

[Rogue 585]

Buckley got a good run in the preseason which suggest he is on the selection radar. Expect him to make a push towards the middle of the year.

I've barely seen Buckley play, but I imagine it's hoped he's going to inject some pace into our midfield. From a purely selfish perspective I'd like to see him get some games so I can have a ook at him.

Btw Rhino Richards - feel free to respond to quotes from more than one person in the same post, instead of posting multiple consecutive posts. I assume it's not frowned upon at all here, but I know on other messageboards there'd be some encouragement to use the edit function to add to your initial post =)

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Watched every game he played. And it was persistent groin injuries that undid him. He was more a KPP than a ruckman, despite his height. And looking at the ruck coaches around the league @ the mo, not one has played less than 100 games in the ruck at the required level. Rucking is a skill picked up over many years of playing in the position. Although a little bloke (HFF), I played over 150 VCFL and TFL games and always marvelled at how ruckmen just kept getting better when they gor into their late 20's and early 30's with heaps of experience. I am friendly with a bloke who played over 200 VFL games as a ruckman, and has ruck coached at 4 clubs - good experienced ruck coaches make a big difference.

Sammy spent almost a day a week with our rucks last year. He was 300 gamer who was a very smart ruckman in his day. Prior to him I think Darren Flanagan (ex Geelong) was our ruck coach. It appears to me that our rucks have gone backwards so far this year. We dont have many $, I know, but a good ruck coach is essential when 3 ruckmen (including rookie) are as inexperienced as ours are.

How any poster can valid judgement about who is a good forward/ruck/defense coach without being actively involved in the Club is likely pulling a needle from a haystack.

FWIW, our rucks have been ordinary for some time with it becoming more critical as White fades. Not all ruckman improve with age. Jamar and PJ have not come on and in fact stalled. Just how much value was a narcissist media bully, footy show clown and botox tragic who has not played the game for 300 years. One hour week and you can discern the value?

Number of games is only one factor but not a golden motza that an ex player will add value. I dont see many teams chasing Wayne Carey or Doug Hawkins to coach.

And its amazing how after two games we have gone dramatically backwards. We slightly off the mediocre position we were in last year.

A good ruck coach is a good thing to have. How you can simply judge purely on the number of games he has played without being involved in the Club is a mystery.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

yep ...fully aware he was a part timer.. ..part of what I thought was a good idea... " band of mentors"

5 mins with Newman is going to be more insightful than 5 months with Leigh..thats just a reality. Newman brings vast experience and understanding of the game.. .. enough said !!

Beyond a couple of cliches and uninformed assumptions, how would you know what reality is?