Formerly known as bruceybaby...I now have a new identity. So don't judge this topic simply because of the number of posts I have made !!! I once made a comment about Bate being over-rated. I'm not sure if there are ANY melbourne supporters out there that will agree with me on this, but I don't think Bate should be in our BEST 22 at the moment. Why does everyone rave about him ? Is he really so special ? I think he is the least exciting player of our younger players. Here are some reasons.

1) His skills are pretty average, drops marks, (never seen him kick a drop punt).

2) He is awkward and not the speediest. Reminds me of Ian Perry for Adelaide but not as good. (Even though I don't rate Perry)

3) Defensive part of his game. Rarely do I see him manned up when opposition have the ball.

and on friday night right on the mcc members wing where I was sitting he backed out of a marking contest which just made me angry not to mention the number of handballs he made to players that were going to be gang tackled as soon as they got the ball.

Everyone keeps bagging Miller about his game on fri as well. Did anyone see the kicks he was getting his way? He wasnt even given a chance.

Hopefully have some positive feedback on my behalf... I'm scared I may not have many friendly responses. Peace.

I'll definately back you up about his defense. He is particularly lazy when the opposition has the ball, and rarely, if ever, puts enough into a chase. It has been annoying me for quite some time.

I think Bate has to develop a right side and a better engine (chasing, defensive running), but to say he is over-rated is a bit much. He is 19 years old and in his second year, and for that stage of his career, he is doing extremely well.

I have a problem with your assessment. You've never seen him kick a drop punt, that says it all.

I don't think Bate is over rated, nor do I think he is slow. He knows how to get the footy and he can kick it a mile. He is a player that really has a massive upside. Having said that I don't think he is in our best 22. He always seems to have the fumbles particulalry below the knees. Everyone says we can't play 2 of Ward, Godfrey or the Browndog in the same team, I don't think we can play Bate and Johnson in the same team they both have potential but neither of them have done the job consistantly yet.

Formerly known as bruceybaby...I now have a new identity. So don't judge this topic simply because of the number of posts I have made !!! I once made a comment about Bate being over-rated. I'm not sure if there are ANY melbourne supporters out there that will agree with me on this, but I don't think Bate should be in our BEST 22 at the moment. Why does everyone rave about him ? Is he really so special ? I think he is the least exciting player of our younger players. Here are some reasons.

1) His skills are pretty average, drops marks, (never seen him kick a drop punt).

2) He is awkward and not the speediest. Reminds me of Ian Perry for Adelaide but not as good. (Even though I don't rate Perry)

3) Defensive part of his game. Rarely do I see him manned up when opposition have the ball.

and on friday night right on the mcc members wing where I was sitting he backed out of a marking contest which just made me angry not to mention the number of handballs he made to players that were going to be gang tackled as soon as they got the ball.

Everyone keeps bagging Miller about his game on fri as well. Did anyone see the kicks he was getting his way? He wasnt even given a chance.

Hopefully have some positive feedback on my behalf... I'm scared I may not have many friendly responses. Peace.

WhenI was at the 'G' friday night I saw him fumbling & generally looking out of sorts & down on confidance. My thoughts initially that he played like crap (for him) but I've since watched the replay 3 or 4 times and I have to say that while he is down on confidance his driving runs with the ball & spearing long passes were outstanding.

I must admit I haven't looked for his defensive side to his game lately so I can't comment on that. Although I watched him a lot 06/05 @ Sandy. Last season before his callup, he was sitting outside, loafing waiting for the ball to be shovelled out to him.

Bate has all the time in the world to improve on his deficiencies at this point. This thread is an absolute crock.

Agree - he's 19 - give him time -

I think Bate has to develop a right side

Fair Enough DSD, everyone's entitled to an opinion and I can't blame you for being a bit frustrated by him, but I wholeheartedly disagree.

As you can see from my profile I rate Bate behind McLean as the player I'm most excited about at the dees. I'm confused at some of your points too.

- His kicking is a strength. Perhaps they don't have the shape of a Trav/CJ/Beamer/Yze drop punt but you'd be hard pressed to find too many kicks of his that don't do the job. Bolting towards the fifty arc he has a fantastic habit of booting it from 55 and booting it straight. He hit the bigfella on the chest with some mouth-watering flat passes last year too. His kicking efficiency (statistically) was better than Bell, Bruce, CJ, Trav, Jones and Brock last year, and comparable to many in the team that are highly rated. Over 50% of his kicks were long and he averaged 35m per kick. His inside fifties average was also second for the dees. (Hope your eyes haven't glazed over, usually I don't like to use stats).

- IMO his running style is ANYTHING but awkward. Beamer runs funny, Sylvia has a particular style, Bartram has floppy wrists, Neita struts. Bate has an INDIVIDUAL style. Kind of looks like a racehorse. His posture is lower to the ground, and maybe he doesn't look as dazzling as Davey ( ) but by gee it works. He's heavy enough and low enough to the ground to run through tackles. Don't forget according to the footy record he's 191cm. The same as Neita. Perhaps off the line he has a bit of weight to get moving, but he is lightning when he gets going in a straight line. I reckon he looks individual, but I LOVE watching him tear through the middle. Add to that when he gets caught generally he's hard to take down. Just like Brock he often has the time and brains to handball unlike a lighter player.

- Defensively. Well you've got me there. But I would remind you that he is VERY young. Green is a fantastic player that, when we were up and running, could do pretty amazing things. But his bad days were diabolical. Bate is at about the same place as Green at the similar place in his career. He needs to learn how to NOT be a liability when he's having a bad day.

A word on his marking. He is a big lad and can take contested marks, and take them against good opponents running back with the flight. He did this as recently as the Saints final last year. Daniher keeps trying him in the fifty hoping to utilise his pace and height, but so far when he plays there he's a ghost. Doesn't know where to be to get out of Neita's way, or to lead for himself. I remember when he, Newton and Dunn were recruited the club put on the spin that we'd recruited 3 new key position players. So far Bate's been a winger/flank/midfielder.

Ball magnet is an accurate term to describe him. He's shown the propensity to collect large amounts of possessions, and do things with them including gaining large amounts of distance both by running and by long-kicking. Friday wasn't his night. The Saints had the game-plan to shut down his run, and handballing isn't what he does. Much has been said about the fact that handballing isn't what the dees were put on this earth to do, and Bate is the perfect example of this. Maybe running at full tilt receiving a handball in space, yes. But not receiving it flat-footed or dishing it off himself, no.

My excitement about Bate is to do with the above, and the fact that he's tall, well built, can kick longer, run faster, and mark more strongly that most, if not all 190/191cm players around the same age. As said before he has a HUGE upside. The modern footballer/midfielder is considered to be something like Goodes. A bloody tall bloke who can run as fast as all the little ones, but be as durable as them and have skills that can go with them.

One other weakness as Choko has said, is his right side. But give him time.

On Miller... many have said the delivery to him was pretty shabby, but he wasn't exactly getting clear of his opponent either, which is something you can usually rely on him doing. Good point though.

Your point of view is unerstandable, he hasn't started too well this season. But given how well he played last year, I think a fair amount of optimism is due with this kid. He looks alright to me...

As for him being in the 22, if we are to have any future at all then guys like Bate, Jones, CJ, Bell... they have to be persisted with. They've all shown a bit, some more than others, and one bad senior game isn't enough to drop him. Maybe if it was a final you'd think about it, but at this stage, he's more than earned his spot I reckon.

well summed up Dappa Dan

the only thing i dont like about bate is he is from the scummy team croydon

Bate was selected a year early in the draft. To be fair, he still has another 12 months left in him before he is an official adult.

He has been hot and cold to be fair, however coming down on bate is a bit tough. He tried hard, but was beaten. He will earn from outings like this and will get much better.

Bate if fit, will develop into something solid by round 22.

He had a shocker against the saints, but most demon players did.

Bater will pick it up soon enough, keep the faith, the kids got mad skills (computer hacking skills....nunchuking skills...bowhunting skills) GOSSSSSSSSSH!

Bate has all the time in the world to improve on his deficiencies at this point. This thread is an absolute crock.

Always right eh Nasher?? Hardly a crock of a therad. Couldnt disagree with you more...especially your judgements on locking threads...PFFFT!

and on friday night right on the mcc members wing where I was sitting he backed out of a marking contest which just made me angry

i saw this and i didn't like

but having said that, i in all honesty think that Dappa Dan is on the money (as usual) with his assessment of bate.

there is huge upside to bate, and friday was probably in the bottom two of the 10-15 games he's played. he will be a very good player if not better

Nah, I still think he's the most promising of the youth.

His got all the tools n when he flicks that switch n becomes consistent, he'll b a star.

Red heads aren't all bad u know.

IMO, there isnt too many better sights than seeing Bate getting the ball inside the centre square of the MCG, breaking a tackle, bounce, another tackle and then putting it through sticks halfway up!!

we arent going to lose anything by letting him develop in the best 22, he will earn quicker, and adds a different dimension to our midfield rotations than playing godfrey or brown in there (who both mioght get plenty of it, but what do they do with it?)

He's young, give him time. He was one among many who backed out of contests, missed targets, and didn't chase. It's the leaders who are supposed to tell him to moves his butt and help out his team mates, if they aren't setting a good example for him than what's he meant to reflect.

I've liked the look of him since he debuted, ATM i agree he may not be in our best 22 and should maybe have a spell at Sandy to get some confidence but he'll be a very handy player for us in the future.

Let me see he turned 19 in December and has played 15 AFL games. He is athletic 192 cm /90kgs. Rising Star nominee in Rd 18 last year.

He is young and down on confidence and shots are being fired.

Nasher is right- What a crock.

If MFC is going to make the big step he is definitely part of our best 22. We need him and other firing. Criticism of him is churlish at best given some of the handbag performances by more estabished players. Point the gun at them not Bate.

Very few AFL players, including the elite, could say that they have never dogged a contest.

And here we have criticism of a 19/20 year old at the very start of his career playing against grown men whilst surrounded by a complete on field leadership vacuum (Neita excluded, Brock off the ground and Yze continuing to get a game although he has become the poster boy for squibs).

Bater appears intelligent enough to learn from the mistake and move on. He has plenty of upside in him.

In a team that need to find 10% improvement annually to keep up, I suggest we move our focus to the under performing 6 year+ players on the bigger bucks. To me, they appear to be holding us back more than the kids.

I think he can only improve, and I see him as one of those consistant players who plays 200 games for thier club and gves thier all week in week out.

Give the kid a break. I'd rather see him in a Demons jumper than in a Sandy jumper. Gibbs said it best only a month ago, there is a big difference in playing at AFL level and at VFL level.

Feel sorry for the guy now...Actually go to uni with him, in the same course. Maybe I should apologise . But to Nasher and Big Rhino, I don't mean to be paying out on him. I guess I am still frustrated as hell about the game against the saints. I've just heard everybody talking him up so much so maybe i'm expecting too much. But thinking about it now, maybe was a bit harsh. The leaders were more too blame. Apologies for any all bate lovers. I will watch him more closely.

Dappa Dan, great post.

Actually go to uni with him

Are you serious? Wow X 2. Firstly I'm surprised at the fact you see him regularly outside of the G, and secondly I'm surprised he has the TIME to go to Uni. Without prying, what course does he do? If you're uncomfortable with that (understandable) you could just tell me how many years he has left until he's in the footy full time.

Also, how does he compare when standing next to him? He walked up and stood next to me at Sandy a couple of weeks ago, just outside the team huddle, and I couldn't believe how small he looked. As I said before he and Neita are the same height in the books, but it's hard to believe when you're right next to him. Neita has been a colossus since he was nineteen, Bate just doesn't seem that large. Is it something to do with his posture?

See, now you've done it. Every time we want to know how he is we'll be PMing you...

Are you serious? Wow X 2. Firstly I'm surprised at the fact you see him regularly outside of the G, and secondly I'm surprised he has the TIME to go to Uni. Without prying, what course does he do? If you're uncomfortable with that (understandable) you could just tell me how many years he has left until he's in the footy full time.

Also, how does he compare when standing next to him? He walked up and stood next to me at Sandy a couple of weeks ago, just outside the team huddle, and I couldn't believe how small he looked. As I said before he and Neita are the same height in the books, but it's hard to believe when you're right next to him. Neita has been a colossus since he was nineteen, Bate just doesn't seem that large. Is it something to do with his posture?

See, now you've done it. Every time we want to know how he is we'll be PMing you...

Hahahaha. Well. He comes in occasionally, he must be only doing a couple of subjects. Furgi is there too. They're always together. The course is exersice science. I think the thing is that his body is really mature for a 19 year old, (same age as me). He is already built like a machine so it looks like he is not so tall for some reason. Where as furgi is no where near as built as bate but looks much taller. Been pretty tempted to say G'day a few times but wouldnt know what to say after that without sounding like a nob. ha.

Bate was described on 3AW by a commentator as a guy who can electrify the Dees when he gets the ball runs and passes it to a player who can have a shot.

The commentator (i think it was David King) was impressed with Bate.

Formerly known as bruceybaby...I now have a new identity. So don't judge this topic simply because of the number of posts I have made !!! I once made a comment about Bate being over-rated. I'm not sure if there are ANY melbourne supporters out there that will agree with me on this, but I don't think Bate should be in our BEST 22 at the moment. Why does everyone rave about him ? Is he really so special ? I think he is the least exciting player of our younger players. Here are some reasons.

1) His skills are pretty average, drops marks, (never seen him kick a drop punt).

2) He is awkward and not the speediest. Reminds me of Ian Perry for Adelaide but not as good. (Even though I don't rate Perry)

3) Defensive part of his game. Rarely do I see him manned up when opposition have the ball.

and on friday night right on the mcc members wing where I was sitting he backed out of a marking contest which just made me angry not to mention the number of handballs he made to players that were going to be gang tackled as soon as they got the ball.

Everyone keeps bagging Miller about his game on fri as well. Did anyone see the kicks he was getting his way? He wasnt even given a chance.

Hopefully have some positive feedback on my behalf... I'm scared I may not have many friendly responses. Peace.

I agree with you to some extent however he is very young and in my opinion will be the third best of Jones and McLean. I dont like bate in midfield but would prefer he play forward pocket. Hes a great kick and can read the play. ND wont play him there and this is dissopointing. I think ND plays players in wrong possitions - ie Green, Bate, Ferguson, Davey and Bartram but thats another story

...will be the third best of Jones and McLean...

...would prefer he play forward pocket...

...I think ND plays players in wrong possitions - ie Green, Bate, Ferguson, Davey and Bartram but thats another story...

... I respect this point of view, and understand how most fans and posters in the know would put the order 1. McLean 2. Jones 3. Bate. It's a favourite subject of mine, the ranking in excitement terms of incoming youth at the club. Mine would probably be McLean, Bate, Bartram, Jones and Bell with special mention for Sylvia, CJ and Buckley. Oh, and Newton is climbing VERY quickly.

... In my mind, Bate is custom-built for the forward-line. He's a tall guy who can mark, run, kick long etc etc. On paper he's a CHF surely, at least a third tall? But he's nowhere near taking any of the six spots on my team-sheet up that end of the ground. Why? I've sat up near that pocket at the G and seen him standing around looking a little lost. It seems they think that's his "resting" spot, but he goes missing when he's there. He's not really a crumbing player, and his leads aren't as good as Dunn's, Miller's or even (maybe) Newton's. When he plays forward he shows the odd glimpse. But when he plays up the ground, not only does he show glimpses of genius, but he's shown in only the few occassions he's played that he can destroy games over the space of minutes, quarters, even whole matches. So much so that he's won whole matches/brownlow votes. And all that while he's still supposed to be developing. Perhaps he's being groomed as a Hird/Bruce type who can just go anywhere on the ground, but there's no denying where he plays his most prodigious footy. That's my opinion anyway.

... I'd like to hear more about that from you occo. In the case of all 5 players.