COVID & AFL 2021

[Dante 2,739]

We closed the State for 3 months when we had 5 cases, you remember the short sharp one.

Now we have over 17000 cases and it's business as usual, my how times have changed.

Someone will write a book about this one day and expose the gross mismanagement and over reaction by Governments. You can't hold back the tide no matter how powerful the politicians feel they are.

[DeeSpencer 26,088]

12 minutes ago, Dante said:

We closed the State for 3 months when we had 5 cases, you remember the short sharp one.

Now we have over 17000 cases and it's business as usual, my how times have changed.

Someone will write a book about this one day and expose the gross mismanagement and over reaction by Governments. You can't hold back the tide no matter how powerful the politicians feel they are.

Apart from the fact Australia held back the tide for over a year. With Victoria crushing an outbreak that allowed every other state to go about their lives as normal whilst the majority of the world suffered huge loss of life and far bigger economic impact. And that QLD, SA, NT and Tassie (and maybe one day WA) got all the way through to 80-90% vaccinated thus saving thousands of lives before opening up.

Small minds will conveniently edit history in their favour. Covid zero was a fantastic policy for the original strain pre vaccination. Might've even worked for Delta too but NSW decided they'd mess around and enforce half measures.

 

 

[drysdale demon 4,837]

1 hour ago, Dante said:

We closed the State for 3 months when we had 5 cases, you remember the short sharp one.

Now we have over 17000 cases and it's business as usual, my how times have changed.

Someone will write a book about this one day and expose the gross mismanagement and over reaction by Governments. You can't hold back the tide no matter how powerful the politicians feel they are.

I heard a couple of hours ago from a source inside the building industry that we would be going into a 5 day lockdown, Dan apparently coming back from his holiday. I take everything I hear with a grain of salt, it will be interesting to see if this actually happens.

[Dante 2,739]

59 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Apart from the fact Australia held back the tide for over a year. With Victoria crushing an outbreak that allowed every other state to go about their lives as normal whilst the majority of the world suffered huge loss of life and far bigger economic impact. And that QLD, SA, NT and Tassie (and maybe one day WA) got all the way through to 80-90% vaccinated thus saving thousands of lives before opening up.

Small minds will conveniently edit history in their favour. Covid zero was a fantastic policy for the original strain pre vaccination. Might've even worked for Delta too but NSW decided they'd mess around and enforce half measures.

 

 

How do you figure this out?

Explain to me how we allowed every other State to go about their lives.

Covid Zero was unacheivable, surely surely can see that now.

BTW I think closing Australia' s Border did more to prevent the wholesale spread of Covid than any lockdown, curfew, restriction of distance allowed to travel etc.

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Dante

[Wrecker46 3,031]

3 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

seems that catching covid in the last 6 months was an out. My cynicism radar is on full alert.

 

It's not catching covid that would rule him out. I can see it being reported on 23rd on June so that would take him to 23 December for his 6 months exception.

But it's 6 months from when he was infectious. So say he claims infectious for 14 days he gets into the country by about a day. But he could have claimed he was infectious for a month, we will never know.

What a farce.

[DeeSpencer 26,088]

37 minutes ago, Dante said:

How do you figure this out?

Explain to me how we allowed every other State to go about their lives.

Covid Zero was unacheivable, surely surely can see that now.

BTW I think closing Australia' s Border did more to prevent the wholesale spread of Covid than any lockdown, curfew, restriction of distance allowed to travel etc.

 

Without Victoria bringing in harsh restrictions to contain the spread and drive numbers down it inevitably would’ve escaped at least to neighbouring states if not more. It did escape to a Sydney hotel, but in small enough numbers to be held up. 

NSW stuffed around with their lockdown and suddenly covid was in Victoria (multiple times), QLD, NT, SA and New Zealand. (Side note; It’s why other states were pleading with NSW to enforce a ring of steel around Sydney. Of course they refused but then sent an army of cops in to West Sydney, because they care about some people’s liberties more than others.)

Until Delta covid zero was absolutely achievable because we achieved it. The smaller states achieved it the whole way through. And as a nation from October 2020 until June 2021 there was all but zero covid with no extended lockdowns. For 8 months the country was overwhelmingly covid free and prospering. If the Dees finish 17th in 2022 will you suddenly say the 2021 flag didn’t exist because we were bad either year before and after?

I’m not saying the state government hasn’t made some howlers and the feds been even worse. But you have to evaluate each strategy in regards to the aims, the variants and the vaccine status. 

Bemoaning lockdowns for 5 cases and not 17k is very simplistic and ignores all the other changing factors.

[binman 43,836]

2 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Without Victoria bringing in harsh restrictions to contain the spread and drive numbers down it inevitably would’ve escaped at least to neighbouring states if not more. It did escape to a Sydney hotel, but in small enough numbers to be held up. 

NSW stuffed around with their lockdown and suddenly covid was in Victoria (multiple times), QLD, NT, SA and New Zealand. (Side note; It’s why other states were pleading with NSW to enforce a ring of steel around Sydney. Of course they refused but then sent an army of cops in to West Sydney, because they care about some people’s liberties more than others.)

Until Delta covid zero was absolutely achievable because we achieved it. The smaller states achieved it the whole way through. And as a nation from October 2020 until June 2021 there was all but zero covid with no extended lockdowns. For 8 months the country was overwhelmingly covid free and prospering. If the Dees finish 17th in 2022 will you suddenly say the 2021 flag didn’t exist because we were bad either year before and after?

I’m not saying the state government hasn’t made some howlers and the feds been even worse. But you have to evaluate each strategy in regards to the aims, the variants and the vaccine status. 

Bemoaning lockdowns for 5 cases and not 17k is very simplistic and ignores all the other changing factors.

And further to these excellent points, it is ridiculous to compare Omicron to previous variants.

Even more ridiculous that some people use the current Omicron tsunami as evidence to retrospectively support anti mandate, anti masks and anti restrictions positions on previous variants.

Omricon arrived in Victoria and NSW in mid November. Today, less than 3 weeks later, in those two states alone there were  53, 000 plus cases, with both jurisdictions acknowledging wit the testing and RAT issues this is almost certainly an undercount.

The phrase 'game changer' has been used ALOT in the last two years. However, if there was ever a time for it to be used accurately now is that time. Omricon has changed the rules AND the playing field. 

[Guest]

And might I add that those who are too happy to scold others for 'becoming political and partisan' seem to be mysteriously silent now the conversation has come to bagging the Victorian lockdown. 

We have one set of rules concerning partisan comment or we don't. We have to live by the rules of the community. We (often grudgingly) accepted them when we signed up for the site.

That said, I don't like double standards.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Colin B. Flaubert

[Dante 2,739]

28 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Without Victoria bringing in harsh restrictions to contain the spread and drive numbers down it inevitably would’ve escaped at least to neighbouring states if not more. It did escape to a Sydney hotel, but in small enough numbers to be held up. 

NSW stuffed around with their lockdown and suddenly covid was in Victoria (multiple times), QLD, NT, SA and New Zealand. (Side note; It’s why other states were pleading with NSW to enforce a ring of steel around Sydney. Of course they refused but then sent an army of cops in to West Sydney, because they care about some people’s liberties more than others.)

Until Delta covid zero was absolutely achievable because we achieved it. The smaller states achieved it the whole way through. And as a nation from October 2020 until June 2021 there was all but zero covid with no extended lockdowns. For 8 months the country was overwhelmingly covid free and prospering. If the Dees finish 17th in 2022 will you suddenly say the 2021 flag didn’t exist because we were bad either year before and after?

I’m not saying the state government hasn’t made some howlers and the feds been even worse. But you have to evaluate each strategy in regards to the aims, the variants and the vaccine status. 

Bemoaning lockdowns for 5 cases and not 17k is very simplistic and ignores all the other changing factors.

Hotel Quarantine.

There are two main types in Victoria, those that love Andrews, (Public Servants, School Teachers, Fire Fighters, Ambos and CFMEU) and the other main group, those that hate him, like me. I can't see much point in arguing with you as you obviously belong in the first group so we will never agree.

Andrews effed up Hotel Quarantine and we, the lowly citizens of Victoria, paid the price. What happened is, to me, is as clear as crystal but it isn't to you. That was the biggest problem we faced and the cause of our lockdowns and many deaths.

Just as a matter of interest, how do you arrive at the bolded, how can you blame the Feds and exonerate the cause of the Hotel Quarantine stuff up.

[Dante 2,739]

28 minutes ago, binman said:

And further to these excellent points, it is ridiculous to compare Omicron to previous variants.

Even more ridiculous that some people use the current Omicron tsunami as evidence to retrospectively support anti mandate, anti masks and anti restrictions positions on previous variants.

Omricon arrived in Victoria and NSW in mid November. Today, less than 3 weeks later, in those two states alone there were  53, 000 plus cases, with both jurisdictions acknowledging wit the testing and RAT issues this is almost certainly an undercount.

The phrase 'game changer' has been used ALOT in the last two years. However, if there was ever a time for it to be used accurately now is that time. Omricon has changed the rules AND the playing field. 

You are aware that people are still dying, aren't you.

[daisycutter 29,746]

as said many times - t h i s   i s   a  f o o t b a l l   f o r u m   n o t   a   p o l i c a l   f o r u m  

thank you

[DeeSpencer 26,088]

59 minutes ago, Dante said:

Hotel Quarantine.

There are two main types in Victoria, those that love Andrews, (Public Servants, School Teachers, Fire Fighters, Ambos and CFMEU) and the other main group, those that hate him, like me. I can't see much point in arguing with you as you obviously belong in the first group so we will never agree.

Andrews effed up Hotel Quarantine and we, the lowly citizens of Victoria, paid the price. What happened is, to me, is as clear as crystal but it isn't to you. That was the biggest problem we faced and the cause of our lockdowns and many deaths.

Just as a matter of interest, how do you arrive at the bolded, how can you blame the Feds and exonerate the cause of the Hotel Quarantine stuff up.

Hotel Quarantine was the state governments biggest stuff up.

But it should be noted that quarantine was a federal responsibility until Scotty agreed to let the states take over because he had no plan and no interest in a plan. No plan for economic stimulus until Labor gave him one. No plan for stimulus in 2021. No plan for the vaccines. No plan for rapid tests.

Every state also had leaks from hotel quarantine. It was a highly flawed system tackling a once in 100 year pandemic. And as bad as the leaks from quarantine were the states test and trace was awful too. Our leaks became an out break.

And the deaths. They came because it got in to aged care and spread from nurses going from home to home. Why - because aged care nurses are causal employees with multiple jobs, because the feds like cheap foreign labour rather than paying professional full time jobs.

The health minister got the lemonade and more ownership should’ve been taken from Andrew’s and other senior members. I don’t like Andrew’s. I have a moderate respect for him. I think most of his cabinet stink. Stink nearly as bad as the awful liberal state mps.

I’ll still take the guy who’s actually made seriously difficult decisions and fought for Victorian lives and Victorian jobs/businesses with extra support packages rather than Scomo who forgot we existed until he needed a hair cut a few months ago. 

[drysdale demon 4,837]

28 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Hotel Quarantine was the state governments biggest stuff up.

But it should be noted that quarantine was a federal responsibility until Scotty agreed to let the states take over because he had no plan and no interest in a plan. No plan for economic stimulus until Labor gave him one. No plan for stimulus in 2021. No plan for the vaccines. No plan for rapid tests.

Every state also had leaks from hotel quarantine. It was a highly flawed system tackling a once in 100 year pandemic. And as bad as the leaks from quarantine were the states test and trace was awful too. Our leaks became an out break.

And the deaths. They came because it got in to aged care and spread from nurses going from home to home. Why - because aged care nurses are causal employees with multiple jobs, because the feds like cheap foreign labour rather than paying professional full time jobs.

The health minister got the lemonade and more ownership should’ve been taken from Andrew’s and other senior members. I don’t like Andrew’s. I have a moderate respect for him. I think most of his cabinet stink. Stink nearly as bad as the awful liberal state mps.

I’ll still take the guy who’s actually made seriously difficult decisions and fought for Victorian lives and Victorian jobs/businesses with extra support packages rather than Scomo who forgot we existed until he needed a hair cut a few months ago. 

I am so glad you decided not to do a political post.

[dieter 3,325]

33 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

as said many times - t h i s   i s   a  f o o t b a l l   f o r u m   n o t   a   p o l i c a l   f o r u m  

thank you

You are either obsessed about the division between everyday life and politics, especially when it comes to f o o t b a l l, that you simply don't have the mental faculties to come to grips with the simple fact that the topic 'Covid and AFL' is totally dependent on decisions made by politicians, whether to do with their neglect and incompetence - but we can't, according to the likes of you, actually NAME the offenders if they come from the right wing of the so-called Liberal party -  or the decisions they make about lockdowns and border closures. What is your problem? Why do you keep wanting us to hide from the bleeding obvious, namely, that everything about Covid is and alway has been Political because of the simple facts that lockdowns and closures and policy regarding them have been politically motivated?

[dieter 3,325]

1 minute ago, drysdale demon said:

I am so glad you decided not to do a political post.

DD, you are another one who hides beneath the 'political post' shield. Face up to it, it is and is more and more every day, a political hot potato.

[daisycutter 29,746]

6 minutes ago, dieter said:

You are either obsessed about the division between everyday life and politics, especially when it comes to f o o t b a l l, that you simply don't have the mental faculties to come to grips with the simple fact that the topic 'Covid and AFL' is totally dependent on decisions made by politicians, whether to do with their neglect and incompetence - but we can't, according to the likes of you, actually NAME the offenders if they come from the right wing of the so-called Liberal party -  or the decisions they make about lockdowns and border closures. What is your problem? Why do you keep wanting us to hide from the bleeding obvious, namely, that everything about Covid is and alway has been Political because of the simple facts that lockdowns and closures and policy regarding them have been politically motivated?

not my rules dieter

demonland rules

plenty of political forums on the web where you can vent and spew all you like

[drysdale demon 4,837]

7 minutes ago, dieter said:

DD, you are another one who hides beneath the 'political post' shield. Face up to it, it is and is more and more every day, a political hot potato.

Don't start on me Dieter, discussions can be made regarding the ramifications of the virus on the AFL without the inclusion of party politics and who is to blame for all problems that keep cropping up with the virus.

I am quite happy to talk politics with anyone face to face.

Edited January 5, 2022 by drysdale demon
more information

[Cards13 9,117]

I’d love to hear from nurses and doctors who have to deal with this on a day to day basis to understand how’s it’s affecting them or people who can’t get access to medical procedures because the system can’t handle them. 

[daisycutter 29,746]

Just now, Cards13 said:

I’d love to hear from nurses and doctors who have to deal with this on a day to day basis to understand how’s it’s affecting them or people who can’t get access to medical procedures because the system can’t handle them. 

try google

plenty of alternate options

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,947]

3 hours ago, drysdale demon said:

I heard a couple of hours ago from a source inside the building industry that we would be going into a 5 day lockdown, Dan apparently coming back from his holiday. I take everything I hear with a grain of salt, it will be interesting to see if this actually happens.

No issues with a 5 day lockdown before the kids go back to school and way before footy season.

[drysdale demon 4,837]

3 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

No issues with a 5 day lockdown before the kids go back to school and way before footy season.

Not this weekend though, my son is supposed to be coming down to see me and his mother.

[Demonstone 22,828]