Ice baths...are they really that good?

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,012]

This is a very interesting article about muscle development and the value of various products such as foam rollers, compression garments and ice baths. It seems to question the long-term value of ice baths.

Given ice baths seem to be used all the time by AFL clubs, I now wonder whether that's the correct approach? I'm sure there will be some players keen for a reduction in the amount of ice baths they are required to take.

[Engorged Onion 10,224]

It was debunked around 7-8 years ago.... 

Also, there was research done on a cohort of US military around 15 years ago, (not that they're gold standard) on stretching AND stretching/warm ups was seen to have zero effect on performance and/or warding off injury.

[Little Goffy 14,750]

7 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

It was debunked around 7-8 years ago.... 

Also, there was research done on a cohort of US military around 15 years ago, (not that they're gold standard) on stretching AND stretching/warm ups was seen to have zero effect on performance and/or warding off injury.

Yeah, as I heard it, the only real benefit of ice baths was in reducing inflammation and immediate soreness.  If it had any lasting benefits that was just a matter of people changing behavior as a result of that reduced inflammation - it could even be counterproductive if someone then overdoes the exertion again before they are ready.

Stretch immediately prior has definitely been debunked - stretching should be all about building up that base flexibility, range of movement and suppleness, not a pre-game activity.

Warm-ups there is still a bit of a debate but it leans towards being a bit warm and 'engaged' before really kicking into high intensity, but not some 20-minute jump around session.

Also, playing (suitable) music while repetitive training makes a big difference to 'experienced' fatigue and capacity to keep going. It also greatly helps skills retention.  As does saying what you're doing out loud! Crazy self-narrating backyard kids know what they're doing.

[Old Bear 388]

10 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

It was debunked around 7-8 years ago.... 

Also, there was research done on a cohort of US military around 15 years ago, (not that they're gold standard) on stretching AND stretching/warm ups was seen to have zero effect on performance and/or warding off injury.

That’s Good because in 30 yrs of bush footy I didn’t do much of anything more than a slow lap before training 

But still had plenty of injuries glad it wasn’t because I didn’t stretch much

 

[rjay 25,302]

11 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

This is a very interesting article about muscle development and the value of various products such as foam rollers, compression garments and ice baths. It seems to question the long-term value of ice baths.

Given ice baths seem to be used all the time by AFL clubs, I now wonder whether that's the correct approach? I'm sure there will be some players keen for a reduction in the amount of ice baths they are required to take.

 

10 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

It was debunked around 7-8 years ago.... 

Also, there was research done on a cohort of US military around 15 years ago, (not that they're gold standard) on stretching AND stretching/warm ups was seen to have zero effect on performance and/or warding off injury.

I've always had an issue with this stuff.

A lot of beliefs held in sports science don't actually have any science to back them up.

As seen above, when the real science kicks in they've been found wanting.

In AFL land it's often follow the leader...that's why we got altitude training, hyperbaric chambers, pre season commando camps, the Kokoda track and on and on we go..........

[monoccular 17,642]

I remember Dermie, that brilliant scientific intellect, once saying of the teams that used to stand in the shallows at Port Melbourne beach the day after a match, that is was “to wash out the lactic acid”! ???

[Engorged Onion 10,224]

5 hours ago, monoccular said:

I remember Dermie, that brilliant scientific intellect, once saying of the teams that used to stand in the shallows at Port Melbourne beach the day after a match, that is was “to wash out the lactic acid”! ???

It seems to me that, in that quote, or the methodology pushed by coaches on the 50's -early 2000's - there is the clear link between the 'healing properties' of ocean air as was the norm in Victorian England spa/beach towns, and the myths that get perpetuated as the accepted norm/practice.

Mind you, I live on the beach and there is no doubt anecdotally and scientifically about it from a mental health sense.

Actually to go a bit further, it's not merely accessing the beach/bush/natural landscape, it's about your 'connection' to it.

[Engorged Onion 10,224]

7 hours ago, rjay said:

 

I've always had an issue with this stuff.

A lot of beliefs held in sports science don't actually have any science to back them up.

As seen above, when the real science kicks in they've been found wanting.

In AFL land it's often follow the leader...that's why we got altitude training, hyperbaric chambers, pre season commando camps, the Kokoda track and on and on we go..........

I was thinking about Ryan Bailey the other day (anyone remember him? gold medal winning cyclist). I was wondering what he did now... considering he (on record) said he used to smash KFC after training and competition... imagine follow the leader in that sense!

[drysdale demon 4,837]

Freddy Cook use to sit in the sauna of a friend of mine in Sunshine on a sunday morning before going out to play for Port Melbourne drinking a couple of long necks, didn't seem to do any harm to his game.

[TRIGON 4,792]

5 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

Actually to go a bit further, it's not merely accessing the beach/bush/natural landscape, it's about your 'connection' to it.

Came off my bike yesterday - connection to the landscape is not always a good thing.

[Demonstone 23,337]

This is officially known as a "Plantar Fasciitis" injury.

 

[demonique 314]

6 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

I was thinking about Ryan Bailey the other day (anyone remember him? gold medal winning cyclist). I was wondering what he did now... considering he (on record) said he used to smash KFC after training and competition... imagine follow the leader in that sense!

The magic of the secret recipe perhaps? Didn’t last long with Ryan though , tactically inept ! 

[Elegt 872]

icing immediately after an injury also has zero effect on muscle recovery, only helps manage pain. Yet this is consistently used  by all clubs

[dpositive 1,818]

Wasn't icing up and icebaths meant to improve blood flow and ask bruising, help repair.

Stretching definitely overworked but I recall Hawthorn at their peak and ntroduced passive stretching before during and after games. Nothing quick and brutal which they did on the field.

i always liked to warm up for tennis and squash but find now that if I warm up to much that m buggered by the time the Mach starts. A few stretches to see what hurts and a bit of movement to avoid too much pain is now the go.

Every one is different I guess.