We get to look forward to more failure

I've got no idea what has happened to this side in last 2 games. Was at the Gabba against Magpies and we moved the ball well, switching, hitting the corridor etc. etc then go Cairns and as soon as it is a bit wet or windy we go back to just throwing it on the boot or down the line. Did we at any time against Sydney or Freo try to take it on and switch or going down the middle. Don't think so. How can we play so well against Magpies then put up that crap in last 2 games.

6 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Not sure on this one Skuit. 

Trac yes, is learning

Clarry, needs to learn how to learn.

Brayshaw, Do not see experience helping him , just will get slower.

Langdon, lots to like.

Max, is not learning and is mature enough without needing more games to mature.

Clarry is an exceptional player who has a few things to work on. Still just 22 and has been one of the league's very top echelon of contested players since day one. The best in-tight player I have ever seen. Even yesterday he did a few things that were extraordinary but barely noticeable. After recent criticism he managed to remodel his game slightly and show what he is capable of. He may have regressed a bit in the past couple of games but the full package is there waiting to explode. It will come. 

Trac has shown what a dedicated pre-season and maturity can do. Yes, still has some things to learn, and how to impact matches when not everything is in his favour (such as his effort vs St Kilda). Just reached the 100-game mark and in an objective perspective is already one of the top-five players in the AFL - with actual real potential to keep improving. 

Gus I don't know. Got a giddy-up (from Simon Goodwin) in 2018 and ended up third in the Brownlow. Everything he does and says makes me think of an immature individual still. Competing in a packed mid-field. Have no idea if he will ever reach his potential but he's obviously a very capable player (whatever one thinks of Brownlow voting). 

Langdon: I think we're all still coming to terms with having an actual bona fide winger. And because he's an import it doesn't feel real as to the MFC. Plus he's still just a kid as well. 80 games. No reason that he won't keep developing and occupying a wing for the next half a decade to come. He has already improved during this season alone - including his kicking.  

Gawn. I didn't agree with his captaincy but it is what it is in Neeldism terms. First season as captain and probably one of the most difficult seasons as to leadership that will ever happen. He's still in the discussion for league-best rucks - the best tap-ruckman I have ever seen - and would expectedly grow into his role. 

Now - again, imagine all of the above have another 50 to 80 games under their belt, rather than an average of 85 or so. 

51 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Bingo, and how vaunted essendon were early in the season. And then it gets dresssed up in the media by Lloyd, that he doesnt know what they stand for.

They and Melbourne aren't [censored] standing for anything* because they're [censored] knackered.

 

*hilariousness of when you lose matches, it means you don't stand for anything.

 

@Skuit apologies for a capital a in And

But didn’t we have that bloke from the Premier League?

2 minutes ago, bobby1554 said:

But didn’t we have that bloke from the Premier League?

Yep. But then Covid. No one has any experience of that. I think they got it wrong but I don't blame them - the number of things I've got wrong since Covid is insane. Burnt all the houses down. So be it. 

9 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Clarry is an exceptional player who has a few things to work on. Still just 22 and has been one of the league's very top echelon of contested players since day one. The best in-tight player I have ever seen. Even yesterday he did a few things that were extraordinary but barely noticeable. After recent criticism he managed to remodel his game slightly and show what he is capable of. He may have regressed a bit in the past couple of games but the full package is there waiting to explode. It will come. 

Trac has shown what a dedicated pre-season and maturity can do. Yes, still has some things to learn, and how to impact matches when not everything is in his favour (such as his effort vs St Kilda). Just reached the 100-game mark and in an objective perspective is already one of the top-five players in the AFL - with actual real potential to keep improving. 

Gus I don't know. Got a giddy-up (from Simon Goodwin) in 2018 and ended up third in the Brownlow. Everything he does and says makes me think of an immature individual still. Competing in a packed mid-field. Have no idea if he will ever reach his potential but he's obviously a very capable player (whatever one thinks of Brownlow voting). 

Langdon: I think we're all still coming to terms with having an actual bona fide winger. And because he's an import it doesn't feel real as to the MFC. Plus he's still just a kid as well. 80 games. No reason that he won't keep developing and occupying a wing for the next half a decade to come. He has already improved during this season alone - including his kicking.  

Gawn. I didn't agree with his captaincy but it is what it is in Neeldism terms. First season as captain and probably one of the most difficult seasons as to leadership that will ever happen. He's still in the discussion for league-best rucks - the best tap-ruckman I have ever seen - and would expectedly grow into his role. 

Now - again, imagine all of the above have another 50 to 80 games under their belt, rather than an average of 85 or so. 

Fair enough, although way off the mark with best in close player seen. He has never performed as an elite in a Grand Fianl, or prelim for that matter so long way short.

Games for games sake is irrelevant. Check were Ablett Danger and Selwood were at the 80 game mark. It is not a linear line.

6 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Clarry is an exceptional player who has a few things to work on. Still just 22 and has been one of the league's very top echelon of contested players since day one. The best in-tight player I have ever seen. Even yesterday he did a few things that were extraordinary but barely noticeable. After recent criticism he managed to remodel his game slightly and show what he is capable of. He may have regressed a bit in the past couple of games but the full package is there waiting to explode. It will come. 

Trac has shown what a dedicated pre-season and maturity can do. Yes, still has some things to learn, and how to impact matches when not everything is in his favour (such as his effort vs St Kilda). Just reached the 100-game mark and in an objective perspective is already one of the top-five players in the AFL - with actual real potential to keep improving. 

Gus I don't know. Got a giddy-up (from Simon Goodwin) in 2018 and ended up third in the Brownlow. Everything he does and says makes me think of an immature individual still. Competing in a packed mid-field. Have no idea if he will ever reach his potential but he's obviously a very capable player (whatever one thinks of Brownlow voting). 

Langdon: I think we're all still coming to terms with having an actual bona fide winger. And because he's an import it doesn't feel real as to the MFC. Plus he's still just a kid as well. 80 games. No reason that he won't keep developing and occupying a wing for the next half a decade to come. He has already improved during this season alone - including his kicking.  

Gawn. I didn't agree with his captaincy but it is what it is in Neeldism terms. First season as captain and probably one of the most difficult seasons as to leadership that will ever happen. He's still in the discussion for league-best rucks - the best tap-ruckman I have ever seen - and would expectedly grow into his role. 

Now - again, imagine all of the above have another 50 to 80 games under their belt, rather than an average of 85 or so. 

Development is key to all these guys.  We badly need a Luke Hodge or Mitchell type to teach them how to be true leaders, to work on their craft,  to stay humble, to teach the next group of talent coming through.  Amazing that Petracca seems to have just taken it upon himself to improve with no "true" leaders around him.  Langdon seems another willing to get the best out of himself.  Max has tapered off imo and does very little damage and adds to our predictability.  Gus i am pretty sure after low fiving Razor Ray got most of those votes gifted to him in the latter of 2018 and has not been close to the same levels since.  Clarry is an exceptional talent but could really use a gun mentor.  It took 12+ games this season before someone suggested he take 5 quick steps once he had the ball.  We are not going anywhere without some real tutelage to our whole list.   

Would be gunning for a player like Selwood for a season or two with transition into coaching as soon as career is over.  We lack true leadership and i doubt any of these players "demand" higher standards of the players around them.  

Geelong are a perfect example, recall them saying that Gary Ablett did not work hard enough.  Who is going to tell Gawn or Clarry that they are not working hard enough??

4 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Fair enough, although way off the mark with best in close player seen. He has never performed as an elite in a Grand Fianl, or prelim for that matter so long way short.

Games for games sake is irrelevant. Check were Ablett Danger and Selwood were at the 80 game mark. It is not a linear line.

Will stand by my Clarry assessment every minute of the hour. You're welcome to forward some better examples. Of course games-for-games' sake is irrelevant - but your own examples are telling. It's the very top of what young players are capable of, and we're not far behind. The Cats had a mini-dynasty and keep on keeping on because of those players.  

1 minute ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Development is key to all these guys.  We badly need a Luke Hodge or Mitchell type to teach them how to be true leaders, to work on their craft,  to stay humble, to teach the next group of talent coming through.  Amazing that Petracca seems to have just taken it upon himself to improve with no "true" leaders around him.  Langdon seems another willing to get the best out of himself.  Max has tapered off imo and does very little damage and adds to our predictability.  Gus i am pretty sure after low fiving Razor Ray got most of those votes gifted to him in the latter of 2018 and has not been close to the same levels since.  Clarry is an exceptional talent but could really use a gun mentor.  It took 12+ games this season before someone suggested he take 5 quick steps once he had the ball.  We are not going anywhere without some real tutelage to our whole list.   

Would be gunning for a player like Selwood for a season or two with transition into coaching as soon as career is over.  We lack true leadership and i doubt any of these players "demand" higher standards of the players around them.  

Geelong are a perfect example, recall them saying that Gary Ablett did not work hard enough.  Who is going to tell Gawn or Clarry that they are not working hard enough??

I appreciate this post. But saying that Trac just took it upon himself I think is a bit disingenuous. It's obviously a two-way street. We just found out yesterday that Steven May credits Goodwin and then Burgo as the two major influences as to turning his career and form around, due to some serious home-truths. We have no idea of the efforts that have been put into Trac finally waking up. Some of our other players aren't yet mature enough maybe? I do think we miss McCartney. Previously Goodwin got through to Gus and remember when big Max completely transformed himself in the pre-season of 2018? We keep hearing the same story - the truly elite didn't realise that their training standards were somewhat lacking (relatively) until they actually woke up and accepted that being elite required a full and total commitment. I think we have a few players on this precipice.    

53 minutes ago, Docs Demons said:

I've got no idea what has happened to this side in last 2 games. Was at the Gabba against Magpies and we moved the ball well, switching, hitting the corridor etc. etc then go Cairns and as soon as it is a bit wet or windy we go back to just throwing it on the boot or down the line. Did we at any time against Sydney or Freo try to take it on and switch or going down the middle. Don't think so. How can we play so well against Magpies then put up that crap in last 2 games.

Because they play to the orders of the coach who has little idea how to change for each club we play. I suggest hardly any of the players are game to step outside the square.

10 minutes ago, old dee said:

Because they play to the orders of the coach who has little idea how to change for each club we play. I suggest hardly any of the players are game to step outside the square.

It seems more likely to me that in wet & windy weather our players go into their shell, possibly because it's so easy to mishandle the ball and for a turnover to result.   So they go for kick down the line.  But why us and not other teams so much?

8 minutes ago, old dee said:

Because they play to the orders of the coach who has little idea how to change for each club we play. I suggest hardly any of the players are game to step outside the square.

Hey Old Dee. I would like to share a whisky with you. What do you say? I'm a wing-clipped nomad and you're stuck in Victoria as far as I can tell. We can document the whisky-sharing struggles on Demonland. I promise I will bring good cheer (there are few people on here who can probably vouch for me as not being completely insane). 

8 minutes ago, Skuit said:

I appreciate this post. But saying that Trac just took it upon himself I think is a bit disingenuous. It's obviously a two-way street. We just found out yesterday that Steven May credits Goodwin and then Burgo as the two major influences as to turning his career and form around, due to some serious home-truths. We have no idea of the efforts that have been put into Trac finally waking up. Some of our other players aren't yet mature enough maybe? I do think we miss McCartney. Previously Goodwin got through to Gus and remember when big Max completely transformed himself in the pre-season of 2018? We keep hearing the same story - the truly elite didn't realise that their training standards were somewhat lacking (relatively) until they actually woke up and accepted that being elite required a full and total commitment. I think we have a few players on this precipice.    

Just not so sure it is all this clear cut.  Petracca got angry after last season and used it to fuel his preseason and the season proper. He was not satisfied with an improved season personally, he "chose" to be better and make a real difference.  He goes on to thank Darren Burgess mainly for getting even more out of him.   Did Goodwin get through to Gus?  Iirc viney got injured and he got a good run at being an on baller for a change.   I wonder whether this was Goodwin, as the same guy looked completely disinterested when he was playing a half back/half forward/ or wing.  So Maxy transformed himself, Petracca transformed himself...I bet both of these players will admit they were not mature enough to realise what it took to become elite/ fully committed to the cause with outstanding growth.  Main point is without leaders driving standards for the next bunch coming through it is much harder to attain these levels no matter how talented.

Still believe we need teachers of standards.  We accept mediocrity far too easily. We demand too little across our entire playing list.  The players drive the standards more than the coaches in well drilled teams.  Currently we don't have enough real leaders to convey this message across the entire playing list.  No Melbourne player has had any real success.  Tomlinson probably has the most finals experience.  We really need experienced coaches teaching new standards so badly.  Waiting for the penny to drop individually across the team just seems whimsical without guidance.

7 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Hey Old Dee. I would like to share a whisky with you. What do you say? I'm a wing-clipped nomad and you're stuck in Victoria as far as I can tell. We can document the whisky-sharing struggles on Demonland. I promise I will bring good cheer (there are few people on here who can probably vouch for me as not being completely insane). 

No you have to be completely insane to follow the MFC Skuit so I welcome you to the single malt dreamers club.

3 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Just not so sure it is all this clear cut.  Petracca got angry after last season and used it to fuel his preseason and the season proper. He was not satisfied with an improved season personally, he "chose" to be better and make a real difference.  He goes on to thank Darren Burgess mainly for getting even more out of him.   Did Goodwin get through to Gus?  Iirc viney got injured and he got a good run at being an on baller for a change.   I wonder whether this was Goodwin, as the same guy looked completely disinterested when he was playing a half back/half forward/ or wing.  So Maxy transformed himself, Petracca transformed himself...I bet both of these players will admit they were not mature enough to realise what it took to become elite/ fully committed to the cause with outstanding growth.  Main point is without leaders driving standards for the next bunch coming through it is much harder to attain these levels no matter how talented.

Still believe we need teachers of standards.  We accept mediocrity far too easily. We demand too little across our entire playing list.  The players drive the standards more than the coaches in well drilled teams.  Currently we don't have enough real leaders to convey this message across the entire playing list.  No Melbourne player has had any real success.  Tomlinson probably has the most finals experience.  We really need experienced coaches teaching new standards so badly.  Waiting for the penny to drop individually across the team just seems whimsical without guidance.

I agree with a lot of this post - except for the things that none of us will ever know. Who drove who to excel is an intricate play within a individual player themselves let alone understanding that through media and gossip. Yup. We need more success in our coaching group to become a force. 

16 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Saving money next season not purchasing memberships. 

Still waiting for the bus, I am also in the queue for not paying membership premiums for 2021. Unless the current Coach goes before the end of the season/year, this long-standing association is over.

These decisions are definitely in the hands of the MFC Board and its approach to 'acceptable' governance of the Club, represented by satisfactory - or better - onfield performances of one small footballing department. 

Goodwin has been the last straw, preceded (just) by the management of the current Board.

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, sue said:

It seems more likely to me that in wet & windy weather our players go into their shell, possibly because it's so easy to mishandle the ball and for a turnover to result.   So they go for kick down the line.  But why us and not other teams so much?

The other team got the biscuits and they are suppose to be inferior to us. We just don't have the talent with the skills in dry weather let alone wet weather.

1 minute ago, old dee said:

No you have to be completely insane to follow the MFC Skuit so I welcome you to the single malt dreamers club.

Haha. I'm not sure if that is a public rejection of my overtures or not. ? 

Just now, Skuit said:

Haha. I'm not sure if that is a public rejection of my overtures or not. ? 

It is not a rejection Skuit I just think it will not happen in Victoria any time in 2020 and even 2021 seem problematical. Luckily my daughter lives just on the 5KM limit. I truly struggle to see  there being games in Victoria next year that will have fans attending.

SO the short answer is it is definitely not a rejection.

In answer to the OP’s question...

I’m really looking forward to:
To Hell and Back 2 : The Sequel

3 minutes ago, old dee said:

It is not a rejection Skuit I just think it will not happen in Victoria any time in 2020 and even 2021 seem problematical. Luckily my daughter lives just on the 5KM limit. I truly struggle to see  there being games in Victoria next year that will have fans attending.

SO the short answer is it is definitely not a rejection.

i'm going to start a thread. See you one day soon Old Dee. 

5 minutes ago, Skuit said:

I agree with a lot of this post - except for the things that none of us will ever know. Who drove who to excel is an intricate play within a individual player themselves let alone understanding that through media and gossip. Yup. We need more success in our coaching group to become a force. 

You are right in that part, we will never really know!  I think all supporters just want to see the rot stop at some point, stop making excuses and choose to be great.  Most of us realise that improvement is far from a linear equation.  I would love to see a dozen+ players improve 10% in the offseason.  We'd have reason to get excited if we were seeing more of them develop.  Think we have enough unharnessed talent with room for improvement.  They have to want it much more than us supporters though.  We can  sit back and analyse with our eyes, read statistics and extrapolate our own ideas as to what happens at club level. The "vibe" i get is quite a bit is NQR currently.  My eyes tell me that part easily, the stats verify that our gameplan is flawed.  Not sure who drives the standards but they are not up to scratch.  Hopefully next year we get a lot more right! As Demon supporters we live in hope!

I am looking forward to watching the Top 8 teams playing three games in 9 days up in the far North to see how they manage the travel and fatigue!! Not happening, what do you mean, it is a fair and level draw isn't it, are you suggesting that the MFC are expendable, get out of here, they would never get away with that, Surellllyyyy NOT..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

You are right in that part, we will never really know!  I think all supporters just want to see the rot stop at some point, stop making excuses and choose to be great.  Most of us realise that improvement is far from a linear equation.  I would love to see a dozen+ players improve 10% in the offseason.  We'd have reason to get excited if we were seeing more of them develop.  Think we have enough unharnessed talent with room for improvement.  They have to want it much more than us supporters though.  We can  sit back and analyse with our eyes, read statistics and extrapolate our own ideas as to what happens at club level. The "vibe" i get is quite a bit is NQR currently.  My eyes tell me that part easily, the stats verify that our gameplan is flawed.  Not sure who drives the standards but they are not up to scratch.  Hopefully next year we get a lot more right! As Demon supporters we live  without  hope!

Just fixed that for you.

Just now, DeeZone said:

I am looking forward to watching the Top 8 teams playing three games in 9 days up in the far North to see how they manage the travel and fatigue!! Not happening, what do you mean, it is a fair and level draw isn't it, are you suggesting that the MFC are expendable, get out of here, they would never get away with that, Surellllyyyy NOT..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No surly we haven't been expendable for 50 years DeeZone?