Kennett's Letter to Hawks Members

[Diamond_Jim 12,689]

5 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

football can survive on half the money, it did before and the football was just as good or better 

most of the money is just wasted and has minimal effect on improving the game

i love aussie rules for the football, all the rest is secondary

afl has been long overdue for major restructuring

 

Agree. Time for the players and their managers to wake up and smell the roses.

[Diamond_Jim 12,689]

42 minutes ago, old dee said:

At risk of starting starting a s fight. Probably accurate. First in line GCS and GWS.

Definitely GCS....There is merit (albeit small) in GWS

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

13 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

If the Covid19 Germ stays around for 2-3 years anything could happen, but I doubt we will have 18 teams

Even IF the national game returns to state based competitions,  the game has been spread nationally,  like never before.  So much so that it is entrenched now, north of the Victorian erae.

The game will live and grow in the northern states, no matter.

 

Tassie is the state in need, before the round-ball takes over.

[old dee 24,003]

12 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

some would be upset but to suggest that few would transfer their allegiances is simplistic. US sporting teams have been moving cities for years.

What MFC supporter doesn't have a second team after 50 years in the wilderness. In the seventies mine was Collingwood. Now it's GWS

True in the US but that is not our culture DJ. I guarantee you no MFC no Old Dee.

Edited June 13, 2020 by old dee

[daisycutter 29,892]

Just now, old dee said:

True in the US but that is not our culture DJ. 

spot on, od. everyone and everything has a price in american culture. i like to think we haven't stooped that low

[old dee 24,003]

1 minute ago, daisycutter said:

spot on, od. everyone and everything has a price in american culture. i like to think we haven't stooped that low

Me too DC but the AFL are well and truely on that road.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

12 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The product the AFL puts out these days is terrible, most would stop watching if not for their club allegiance. If Melbourne gets killed off that's it for me with the AFL. Local footy could we a resurgence which would be one benefit

I agree Dr, I'm not a fan of this Cinderella game, these days, but it is better than 4Yrs back,  but needs to get back to old normal,  before I will be really inspired by it again.

It's just Too contrived & organised , these days.

[Diamond_Jim 12,689]

5 minutes ago, old dee said:

True in the US but that is not our culture DJ. I guarantee you no MFC no Old Dee.

come on .... I'll bet you have some blue blood deep down not to mention a desire to fly high with the jacket swinging Bomber brigade.

Wait there's always the Dockers... guaranteed half empty stadium for every Melbourne match. It would be just like most MFC matches !!

?

[old dee 24,003]

4 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

come on .... I'll bet you have some blue blood deep down not to mention a desire to fly high with the jacket swinging Bomber brigade.

Wait there's always the Dockers... guaranteed half empty stadium for every Melbourne match. It would be just like most MFC matches !!

?

There is one thing I can absolutely guarantee you DJ there is not a snow flake chance in hell I would ever follow the bombers. Worst club and supporters in Victoria. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,310]

28 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

I think we are safe Swyl by virtue of them needing 16 teams for decent TV rights deal.

We've come a long way since 2012 but need to continue and not rest on our laurels 

I am not talking about this in terms of the MFC, I heard Kennett live, yesterday and had to agree with him.

18 clubs could survive, but I doubt it will happen, too many were on the edge before the Pandemic appeared

The AFL teat won't be there like it was before

[Sir Why You Little 37,310]

30 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Again you're rebutting a point I did not make. Regardless of on field performance, when Melbourne plays Carlton on a Sunday afternoon at the MCG why does Carlton get to host 9 times out of 10? This gives them a game to make money off while we have to make do with hosting Freo, Subs, GWS etc every year. That has nothing to do with success or lack thereof, it's about AFL policies propping up some clubs at the expense of others.

The Big 4 still exist inside AFL House

Carlton are 1 of them

Sadly it is a fact

[markc 975]

17 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Have a look at their balance sheet. It's very strong. If Tassie goes but there are say two less clubs in Melbourne he wins.

I'd be gaming a Carlton merger to have up my sleeve if I was the MFC. In reality North and Saints are easier pickings for the axe so we could be safe.

i agree the balance sheet is good , just what I've heard there is more to it , it wont happen overnight but ..

i have no idea how they ever got done for salary cap breaches either. 

[markc 975]

17 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

While they've got the pokies they're fine. I think they profit the most out of any club and it's in the 10s of millions every year

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/afl-clubs-fill-boots-with-pokies-cash-as-losses-hit-2-7bn-20190726-p52b1z.html

yes they have helped them thats for sure and tassie 

it wont happen overnight but time will tell 

 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

9 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I am not talking about this in terms of the MFC, I heard Kennett live, yesterday and had to agree with him.

18 clubs could survive, but I doubt it will happen, too many were on the edge before the Pandemic appeared

The AFL teat won't be there like it was before

Remember that reductions in monies will be across the board.  all codes competitions and across the whole economy. businesses,  salaries, etc. prices will come right down. and so extra expenditures like overseas shipping will add up on costs.

 

One thing that will thrive/survive,  will be electronic media, as its cheap to export/import. Compared to physical items with size and mass.

Players will need extra money,  just as they did in the 50's and 60's.

Everything will come down in price,  Pro, rata.

[Grr-owl 1,257]

20 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

They had Kennett on SEN before to discuss the letter he had written to Hawks members this afternoon.

https://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/704788/jeff-s-letter-to-members

The critical part of it was he has put the death of clubs back on the table;

This is the guy who tried to destroy the state and now he is trying to destroy the competition with his economic rationalist views.

I hope our club defends itself in no uncertain terms as it is clear we are one of 4 clubs (along with North, Saints and Dogs despite their current financial position) whose necks are on the chopping block.

You could say it's just a blowhard but the fact he is on the competitions coronavirus committee means his position holds more weight than most and it would be unlikely if he has gone out and said this publicly without similar discussions being had privately.

He has given clubs 3 years to get their finances in order. 3 years despite not knowing how the next season or two will play out. 3 years to try and overcome decades of financial inequities in the competition.

If the competition were serious and the clubs had a backbone they would demand a revenue sharing model as compensation for the AFL's crowd/revenue maximisation policies. Of course the AFL has crippled most clubs so that they are reliant on the AFL and dare not speak out against city hall lest they be punished with poor fixtures and stadium deals and any other decisions the AFL decides on a whim. Look at the way they punished Sydney for daring to steal Buddy Franklin from under the noses of the Giants! Could you imagine if Collingwood or Hawthorn were banned from trading for two trade periods?

Average supporters do not understand the long-term financial ramifications of competition policies over several decades dating back to the impact of the player zoning system and then over more recent decades revenue/crowd maximisation policies and ground rationalisation policies. Clubs need to start standing up for themselves otherwise at some point in the (near?) future the AFL and big clubs will decide it is no longer in their interest to keep clubs on life support and will let them fold despite being victims of AFL policies and the fact their weak financial position was manufactured to balloon the financial positions of the bigger clubs and the AFL executives.

I get the sense that, in private, many AFL power brokers have decided that the latest expansion was a mistake and they would welcome a two team reduction.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,448]

39 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The Big 4 still exist inside AFL House

Carlton are 1 of them

Sadly it is a fact

I don't disagree having people like Collins and Fitzpatrick on the commission helped them for years. But it is our clubs duty to stand up and fight for ourselves and make the case as to how the AFLs policies have unfairly impeded our ability to stand on our own feet financially. This goes even moreso for Saints, Kangas and Doggies

[Dr. Gonzo 24,448]

31 minutes ago, Grr-owl said:

I get the sense that, in private, many AFL power brokers have decided that the latest expansion was a mistake and they would welcome a two team reduction.

But would it be GC/GWS in the gun or North/Saints/Demons? And where does Tassie sit in that? Perhaps kill off or merge one of the 3 with GC, one with GWS and send the 3rd to Tas is their thinking?

I don't really see the AFL giving up on the northern expansion - and I don't really think they should either. GWS definitely has a place in the league, GC long term is a good investment too but perhaps they need to split games between GC and Townsville/Darwin or something?

Edited June 13, 2020 by Dr. Gonzo

[daisycutter 29,892]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

But would it be GC/GWS in the gun or North/Saints/Demons? And where does Tassie sit in that? Perhaps kill off or merge one of the 3 with GC, one with GWS and send the 3rd to Tas is their thinking?

I don't really see the AFL giving up on the northern expansion - and I don't really think they should either. GWS definitely has a place in the league, GC long term is a good investment too but perhaps they need to split games between GC and Townsville/Darwin or something?

hard to see tassie happening in the short term

the against argument was always based on financial viability. in the post covid emergency that will only be amplified

just my 2c

[Sir Why You Little 37,310]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't disagree having people like Collins and Fitzpatrick on the commission helped them for years. But it is our clubs duty to stand up and fight for ourselves and make the case as to how the AFLs policies have unfairly impeded our ability to stand on our own feet financially. This goes even moreso for Saints, Kangas and Doggies

We haven't had enough success in the modern era to be able to do that. And when the AFL do give us some early home games, we to often waste them.

Carlton are still looked after because they pulled huge crowds between 1965-2000

Not saying I agree, but that is why. The ONLY way we will improve our situation is to win consistently, everything else is an add on

[Dr. Gonzo 24,448]

9 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We haven't had enough success in the modern era to be able to do that. And when the AFL do give us some early home games, we to often waste them.

Carlton are still looked after because they pulled huge crowds between 1965-2000

Not saying I agree, but that is why. The ONLY way we will improve our situation is to win consistently, everything else is an add on

It's political I get that. But when these conversations come up and the existence of clubs is under threat we have an obligation to ensure the narrative includes the background for the economic circumstances some clubs find themselves in.

As I said there will always be large and small clubs. But when small clubs are given no prime time exposure, consistent home games against interstate sides who don't draw in Melbourne, relegated to twilight Sunday timeslots that draw neither crowds nor viewers and are saddled with terrible stadium deals to ensure they meet the AFLs own contract with that stadium what chance do they have? They're already coming from a position of weakness and these things combine to create impossible circumstances and a widening economic gap both in the shirt and long term. AFL assistance is wholly inadequate to address these inequities yet it is this assistance that is now being used to kill off these clubs.

Kennett has come out publicly but no doubt others would be thinking it privately, particularly clubs like West Coast, Fremantle and Adelaide. Those clubs see an opportunity not only to grow their share of the financial pie but also strengthen their hand against the Victorian dominated commission. Once non-Vic sides make a majority of clubs they will be able to start getting their agendas through such as moving the Grand Final from the MCG for starters.

[chookrat 4,268]

15 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Seriously, what is the AFL thinking letting the current serving president of one particular club serve on this panel?  A bit like Scomo letting an ex-oil and gas executive loose with public policy.  Conflict of interest much?

It's more like letting a current Oil and Gas exec loose with public policy.

[Sir Why You Little 37,310]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's political I get that. But when these conversations come up and the existence of clubs is under threat we have an obligation to ensure the narrative includes the background for the economic circumstances some clubs find themselves in.

As I said there will always be large and small clubs. But when small clubs are given no prime time exposure, consistent home games against interstate sides who don't draw in Melbourne, relegated to twilight Sunday timeslots that draw neither crowds nor viewers and are saddled with terrible stadium deals to ensure they meet the AFLs own contract with that stadium what chance do they have? They're already coming from a position of weakness and these things combine to create impossible circumstances and a widening economic gap both in the shirt and long term. AFL assistance is wholly inadequate to address these inequities yet it is this assistance that is now being used to kill off these clubs.

Kennett has come out publicly but no doubt others would be thinking it privately, particularly clubs like West Coast, Fremantle and Adelaide. Those clubs see an opportunity not only to grow their share of the financial pie but also strengthen their hand against the Victorian dominated commission. Once non-Vic sides make a majority of clubs they will be able to start getting their agendas through such as moving the Grand Final from the MCG for starters.

The MFC is the only Club i can see becoming bigger. Other Small Clubs will remain that way  but we can get bigger because of who we are, but it won’t happen until the AFL trust the organization 

Smaller Clubs are in trouble right now, the Pandemic has put that front and center

 

[drysdale demon 4,837]

16 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Peter Gordon’s current stance is a disgrace and hypocrisy at its worst if you ask me.

He has been that way all his life. Full of cr#p.

[Grr-owl 1,257]

22 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

But would it be GC/GWS in the gun or North/Saints/Demons? And where does Tassie sit in that? Perhaps kill off or merge one of the 3 with GC, one with GWS and send the 3rd to Tas is their thinking?

I don't really see the AFL giving up on the northern expansion - and I don't really think they should either. GWS definitely has a place in the league, GC long term is a good investment too but perhaps they need to split games between GC and Townsville/Darwin or something?

Yeah, I can't see them giving up on them, either. Too much pride. But I'm sure they wouldn't mind too much if a couple of Vic teams were left behind/merged/moved.

[drdrake 3,203]

22 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The MFC is the only Club i can see becoming bigger. Other Small Clubs will remain that way  but we can get bigger because of who we are, but it won’t happen until the AFL trust the organization 

Smaller Clubs are in trouble right now, the Pandemic has put that front and center

 

No we can't, for some reason our on field continues to fail us, no matter what we do off field the on field is and has been a massive issue for the majority of the last 50+ years.  We are a long way off from being a good on field side and until that happens we will be considered as a small club that is becoming a Burden to the AFL.

I agree with Kennett, the product is so poor at the moment, we have a deluded talent pool, terrible pathway programs.  AFL 10 sides Div 1 with 10 sides in Div 2 add in a Tassie and NT side, promotion/relegation bottom 2/top 2 each year.

The two biggest clubs in the AFL are West Coast and Adelaide, with out those 2 clubs coming into the VFL/AFL there would be a lot of traditional VFL clubs that would not be running around today.  Today both these clubs would be the strongest financial clubs in the AFL.