Training Ground?

[Oxdee 438]

Seems that the admin site for MFC and scopus don’t overlap. Doesn’t look like scopus are planning on using the facilities inside the track and will instead build their sporting facilities within the area they’ve purchased. 

[DistrACTION Jackson 9,224]

This may sound naive but that could be a positive. It would give another important stakeholder who you would expect will want to make use of an elite sporting precinct… obviously the land availability for the administrative area is the key issue.

For what it’s worth Peter Lawrence said today there’s a group of MFC members with approx $15m ready to donate towards the project, make of that what you will.

[Oxdee 438]

3 minutes ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

This may sound naive but that could be a positive. It would give another important stakeholder who you would expect will want to make use of an elite sporting precinct… obviously the land availability for the administrative area is the key issue.

For what it’s worth Peter Lawrence said today there’s a group of MFC members with approx $15m ready to donate towards the project, make of that what you will.

I don’t believe scopus are going to use the facilities in the middle of the track. They are most likely going to build its sporting facilities within their purchased land 

[Demonland 73,140]

I don’t believe the sites overlap. Someone close to the school project sent me this. 

[Oxdee 438]

10 minutes ago, Demonland said:

I don’t believe the sites overlap. Someone close to the school project sent me this. 

I guess photoshop isn’t your strong suit.. 🤣

[george_on_the_outer 7,696]

How long did their feasibility study and business case take?

[rpfc 28,769]

5 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

How long did their feasibility study and business case take?

About as long as the cheque took to clear

[Oxdee 438]

4 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

How long did their feasibility study and business case take?

It would have been a lot easier for scopus as they aren’t planning on using the facilities inside the track which is crown land. They just purchased the MRC freehold 

[Redleg 41,427]

If Andy's map is correct there is no problem and there was always going to be a mix of community use and excess land sale, to get the MRC out of their $195m hole. 

If Andy's map is incorrect, please look to the south east corner of the racetrack and you will see the vacant Freedman/Little stable area, which is bigger than the area in Andy's map shown as MFC.

I think this might be a better parcel than the one we were originally looking at, if it falls through, as it is a bigger more  regular and easier to use shape and would only need the boys to cross the track at the back, to get to the ovals from the admin and training buildings and that area would accommodate quite a few of them.

The MFC only need enough land for a couple of buildings and I think the west side is crown land while the south east might be freehold or more crown land.

This might be the plan all along, as the school has been negotiating for over a year after the Caulfield Hospital site fell through and the State Government has been pushing the move as they want the school's Burwood campus to extend Deakin University. Both the school and the MFC have been in this for a year and would well know what each is seeking.

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

35 minutes ago, Oxdee said:

Seems that the admin site for MFC and scopus don’t overlap. Doesn’t look like scopus are planning on using the facilities inside the track and will instead build their sporting facilities within the area they’ve purchased. 

Their land isn't wide enough for ovals. Maybe a soccer pitch or a basketball gym. But I suspect they'll have their eyes on the ovals for community sporting access which is what I've heard since January.

36 minutes ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

This may sound naive but that could be a positive. It would give another important stakeholder who you would expect will want to make use of an elite sporting precinct… obviously the land availability for the administrative area is the key issue.

 

I don't think our admin building would be an issue. In fact, now we know who the Caulfield land is selling to we might even be able to buy or rent a small chunk of it to get easily access for construction as well as come up with mutually beneficial design plans. I actually thought it would all go to housing and we'd have to deal with dodgy developers for neighbours chucking up the cheapest possible apartments.

33 minutes ago, Demonland said:

I don’t believe the sites overlap. Someone close to the school project sent me this. 

The Scopus blue and the Dees slither of brown don't overlap (although there's perhaps a little question of access from the road in).

But I suspect the fight will truly be on for the ovals - as it has always likely been.

Dees will say let us control them and stump up some initial finance in return for exclusive use during AFL/W training times and perhaps only the bare minimum community footy use - maybe no trainings and 2 games a weekend.

Scopus will say let us be involved in the development and have Ajax training their 4 nights a week and half a dozen games each weekend.

There's room for compromise but we can't be spending a fortune on a training base only to have ovals torn up by 1000's of kids every weekend.

[Oxdee 438]

4 minutes ago, Redleg said:

If Andy's map is correct there is no problem and there was always going to be a mix of community use and excess land sale, to get the MRC out of their $195m hole. 

If Andy's map is incorrect, please look to the south east corner of the racetrack and you will see the vacant Freedman/Little stable area, which is bigger than the area in Andy's map shown as MFC.

I think this might be a better parcel than the one we were originally looking at, if it falls through, as it is a bigger more  regular and easier to use shape and would only need the boys to cross the track at the back, to get to the ovals from the admin and training buildings and that area would accommodate quite a few of them.

The MFC only need enough land for a couple of buildings and I think the west side is crown land while the south east might be freehold or more crown land.

This might be the plan all along, as the school has been negotiating for over a year after the Caulfield Hospital site fell through and the State Government has been pushing the move as they want the school's Burwood campus to extend Deakin University. Both the school and the MFC have been in this for a year and would well know what each is seeking.

The area that the MFC earmarked (which isn’t part of the school purchase) is still 10,000 sqm. This is a sizeable allotment to build an admin centre and indoor facilities 

[Oxdee 438]

4 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Their land isn't wide enough for ovals. Maybe a soccer pitch or a basketball gym. But I suspect they'll have their eyes on the ovals for community sporting access which is what I've heard since January.

I don't think our admin building would be an issue. In fact, now we know who the Caulfield land is selling to we might even be able to buy or rent a small chunk of it to get easily access for construction as well as come up with mutually beneficial design plans. I actually thought it would all go to housing and we'd have to deal with dodgy developers for neighbours chucking up the cheapest possible apartments.

The Scopus blue and the Dees slither of brown don't overlap (although there's perhaps a little question of access from the road in).

But I suspect the fight will truly be on for the ovals - as it has always likely been.

Dees will say let us control them and stump up some initial finance in return for exclusive use during AFL/W training times and perhaps only the bare minimum community footy use - maybe no trainings and 2 games a weekend.

Scopus will say let us be involved in the development and have Ajax training their 4 nights a week and half a dozen games each weekend.

There's room for compromise but we can't be spending a fortune on a training base only to have ovals torn up by 1000's of kids every weekend.

There is space within the 75,000 space that scopus is buying to fit in a 12,000 sqm oval. They only need 120m in width. I can’t see scopus paying 195m for land and then have to negotiate the use of the ovals. They will build their own dedicated oval. 

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

15 minutes ago, Redleg said:

If Andy's map is correct there is no problem and there was always going to be a mix of community use and excess land sale, to get the MRC out of their $195m hole. 

If Andy's map is incorrect, please look to the south east corner of the racetrack and you will see the vacant Freedman/Little stable area, which is bigger than the area in Andy's map shown as MFC.

I think this might be a better parcel than the one we were originally looking at, if it falls through, as it is a bigger more  regular and easier to use shape and would only need the boys to cross the track at the back, to get to the ovals from the admin and training buildings and that area would accommodate quite a few of them.

The MFC only need enough land for a couple of buildings and I think the west side is crown land while the south east might be freehold or more crown land.

 

You can find it here.

https://www.crrt.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/CRRT-Strategic-Management-Plan-December-2023.pdf

That area is called Precinct 5. The plans are pretty clearly for an Indoor sports facility and with the rise of basketball, soccer and other indoor sports I'd imagine that's just about a lock once someone finds the cash to get it done.

Precinct 5 - Indoor Recreation Precinct (Neerim Stables) This precinct is based at the former “Neerim Stables” site at the southern end of the Reserve, adjoining Glenhuntly Park. This precinct has unrestricted access and can operate independently of events within the Reserve, including racing, and therefore provides a unique opportunity to provide recreation facilities for regular and consistent use. The existing Land Management Plan proposals for this area remain unchanged and will continue to be developed. However, due to the unique nature of this Precinct outside of the racing impacts, and the removal of the proposed “Neerim Road Tunnel” due to cost/benefit reasons, a strong focus is to house facilities unrelated to the racecourse area and in-field operations.

Precinct 6 is the Proposed site for the Demons and is in many ways chosen because it's a tricky site that can't be used for much as is. 

Precinct 6 - Recreation Support Precinct This precinct is located outside the racetrack area on a triangular shaped site that was previously used for horse training. This precinct is “wedged” between the racetrack and private land on Booran Road, with limited access and constrained interfaces. While not directly impacted by racing, the activities and access to this precinct will be impacted by people and traffic movements. This precinct also abuts existing and future built form areas, including the three storey Glen Eira College and a number of sites subject to future planning applications. This existing and future built form is likely to create overshadowing, constrain access and make it unsuitable for open space community infrastructure. To support the heritage goals, particularly the aim to keep The Flat infield of the racecourse open, along with the existing built form on site and adjacent sites, this precinct is proposed to house support buildings for the operations and management of the Reserve. This will include Caulfield Racecourse Reserve Trust, recreation and sport organisations using the Reserve, and other related bodies who require administration and support facilities relating to the activities in the Reserve.

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

14 minutes ago, Oxdee said:

There is space within the 75,000 space that scopus is buying to fit in a 12,000 sqm oval. They only need 120m in width. I can’t see scopus paying 195m for land and then have to negotiate the use of the ovals. They will build their own dedicated oval. 

Find me 120m width anywhere on that site, best I can do is 105m and that's right up against the track. You can measure distance on google maps.

There's obviously enough space for some grass fields for the kids to do PE and run around at lunch and recess but in terms of a genuine sized footy oval she's very tight.

 

[Oxdee 438]

1 minute ago, DeeSpencer said:

Find me 120m width anywhere on that site, best I can do is 105m and that's right up against the track. You can measure distance on google maps.

There's obviously enough space for some grass fields for the kids to do PE and run around at lunch and recess but in terms of a genuine sized footy oval she's very tight.

 

I’m sure that for $195m the MRC can find another 15mteres to cater for an oval. I might be wrong, but I wouldnt be spending that much money in order to share grounds with MFC and the whole Glen eira community 

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,963]

In light of the recent sad happenings in Melbourne I am not sure that Mt. Scopus would be keen on shared facilities. One solution is that they take over Glenhuntly Oval which is currently being used by Caulfield Grammarians in the ammo’s which would give any Scopus its own exclusive facility. Council would then need to find a home for Caulfield Grammarians which could possibly be a facility swap with Ajax with some sweeteners involved.

[Grr-owl 1,251]

8 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Their land isn't wide enough for ovals. Maybe a soccer pitch or a basketball gym. But I suspect they'll have their eyes on the ovals for community sporting access which is what I've heard since January.

I don't think our admin building would be an issue. In fact, now we know who the Caulfield land is selling to we might even be able to buy or rent a small chunk of it to get easily access for construction as well as come up with mutually beneficial design plans. I actually thought it would all go to housing and we'd have to deal with dodgy developers for neighbours chucking up the cheapest possible apartments.

The Scopus blue and the Dees slither of brown don't overlap (although there's perhaps a little question of access from the road in).

But I suspect the fight will truly be on for the ovals - as it has always likely been.

Dees will say let us control them and stump up some initial finance in return for exclusive use during AFL/W training times and perhaps only the bare minimum community footy use - maybe no trainings and 2 games a weekend.

Scopus will say let us be involved in the development and have Ajax training their 4 nights a week and half a dozen games each weekend.

There's room for compromise but we can't be spending a fortune on a training base only to have ovals torn up by 1000's of kids every weekend.

There is no way the NIMBY's will approve the MFC development unless community use is a priority. Local pollies and people agree that Glen Eira has the smallest amount of green space of all Melbourne municipalities and want that to change....

Having lived in Asia and the Middle East, it is bizarre how some Australians define a small amount of green space, but there you go.... It's the same phenomenon as most people believing they are middle class.... Worth 5-10 million? Middle Class. Worth 10-20 million? Middle class. Worth .5-1 million? Middle Class....

Truth is, unless you're living on the street, Australians are rich already because they speak English natively, go to school, get to vote for their "leaders", can insult politicians personally in public without being murdered, and are pretty much guaranteed of at least one meal a day.

Today I'm going out on my balcony and shout at my neighbors, "Wake up!"  

[Whispering_Jack 30,640]

9 hours ago, george_on_the_outer said:

How long did their feasibility study and business case take?

I understand that both have been several years in the making as there was interest in another site where the Caulfield Hospital is at present going back to around 2020 while government authorities have been investigating the purchase of the school’s Burwood campus to incorporate that into Deakin University. The hospital option ended in the too hard basket and rightly so because of the crisis we are experiencing in this state with health care in general.

My understanding is that there has been a substantial amount of activity in the background involving a number of participants ranging from government, the local council, the racing club and interested community groups, all involving consultation and, as you can imagine, plenty of politics and the usual argy bargy.

In the end, it will be very worthwhile for all concerned, including the Melbourne Football Club if we get a foothold there.

 

[Grr-owl 1,251]

30 minutes ago, Dee Viney Intervention said:

In light of the recent sad happenings in Melbourne I am not sure that Mt. Scopus would be keen on shared facilities. One solution is that they take over Glenhuntly Oval which is currently being used by Caulfield Grammarians in the ammo’s which would give any Scopus its own exclusive facility. Council would then need to find a home for Caulfield Grammarians which could possibly be a facility swap with Ajax with some sweeteners involved.

Princes Park?

[Oxdee 438]

1 hour ago, Dee Viney Intervention said:

In light of the recent sad happenings in Melbourne I am not sure that Mt. Scopus would be keen on shared facilities. One solution is that they take over Glenhuntly Oval which is currently being used by Caulfield Grammarians in the ammo’s which would give any Scopus its own exclusive facility. Council would then need to find a home for Caulfield Grammarians which could possibly be a facility swap with Ajax with some sweeteners involved.

They are buying 75,000 sqm of land. Surely the can squeeze in a 12,000 sqm oval? 

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

9 hours ago, Oxdee said:

I’m sure that for $195m the MRC can find another 15mteres to cater for an oval. I might be wrong, but I wouldnt be spending that much money in order to share grounds with MFC and the whole Glen eira community 

The only area where there’s any room to expand width (can’t build an oval on a road or race track) is the proposed Dees wedge. So maybe they can do a land swap with the Crown.

Their current campus has one skinny oval though. So maybe they don’t need full sized ovals. Not a lot of Jewish interschool sports as far as I know! They aren’t churning out footballers like the APS schools (aside from Harry Sheezel)

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

1 hour ago, Grr-owl said:

There is no way the NIMBY's will approve the MFC development unless community use is a priority. Local pollies and people agree that Glen Eira has the smallest amount of green space of all Melbourne municipalities and want that to change..

For every other pro sports team I agree, it’s disgraceful how they’ve taken over prime inner city green space (and funding) for their own interest.

But when it’s the Dees I’m willing to let it slide!

[mauriesy 7,353]

Here's the diagram from the racing club's master plan. The two areas discussed here as possible sites for the MFC are the Recreation Administration Precinct (grey) and the Indoor Recreation Precinct (bottom). Both have ready access the ovals, and are not affected by any areas sold to Mt Scopus. The Indoor Recreation Precinct has some trees that need "consideration".

[mauriesy 7,353]

50 minutes ago, Oxdee said:

They are buying 75,000 sqm of land. Surely the can squeeze in a 12,000 sqm oval? 

A decent sized football oval is about 20,000 m2 if you include sufficient area around the perimeter. If you look at the racing club's plan, the ovals they propose in the middle of the track are far wider than the land proposed for the school.

[Diamond_Jim 12,627]

Out of curiosity what's the benefit to the racing club of having the MFC in the middle of the track. They're not a charity