Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

Amazing despite our mediocrity and lack of recognised  leadership that posters here still defend completely dud captains. 

  • Like 2
Posted
2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I know drafting is an inexact science, but we have had far too many misses. I won't mention wasted early picks in Toumpas, Cook and Morton as that would only upset people.

Thanks for upsetting me 'Red'...

  • Haha 1
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

I think it’s interesting that Patrick Cripps was on course to win the Brownlow until Teague came along and changed the way Carlton played bringing more players to the fore who ultimately took votes away from him. 

Also interesting that if Neale stayed a Docker, Fyfe probably doesn't win.

Plus, if Kelly had been traded last year, Dangerfield probably wins.

A lot of luck in footy, on and off the field.

Edited by Redleg
  • Like 1
Posted
2 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Amazing despite our mediocrity and lack of recognised  leadership that posters here still defend completely dud captains. 

I'm not sure they're defending the captains, they just don't see this as the correct metric to evaluate them and that's fair.

This list shows why...

2 hours ago, waynewussell said:

Add these blokes to the list of 'worthless' captains...

Easton Wood (0 votes)

Tom Jonas (0 votes)

Ben Stratton (0 votes)

Witts (1 vote)

Geary (1 vote)

Walker (2 votes)

Hurn (3 votes)

Heppel (3 votes)

J Selwood (3 votes)

P Davis (3 votes)

Ron Barassi... In the two seasons he won the Demons' best-and-fairest award, 1961 and 1964, he managed only 10 votes from the umpires.

 

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, rjay said:

I'm not sure they're defending the captains, they just don't see this as the correct metric to evaluate them and that's fair.

This list shows why...

 

Only Heppel and Selwood out of that bunch would be considered playing as potential  true vote attracting mid fielders. The others are key forwards and defenders who never traditionally do well in Brownlows. Witts could have gotten more but he plays for the Suns. Still Heppel and Selwood have more votes each than both our two so called leaders combined. I believe the metric is valid. Viney and Jones are complete non entities and irrelevant in the umpires eyes.

Edited by america de cali
  • Like 1
Posted
10 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Spare me the excuses please....

Both Captains play in the Midfield 

Played all season. Did nothing. 

FFS TMac polled 6 votes from 2 games

Jones had an OK year - not great and not particularly bad. But he didn't spend much of it in the midfield. He spent most of the season on the wing or the half back flank with occasional stints forward.

Whether Jones and Viney should be captains is a good question, but their polling in the Brownlow is probably the least worthy metric by which to assess their suitability for the job. 

Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Jones had an OK year - not great and not particularly bad. But he didn't spend much of it in the midfield. He spent most of the season on the wing or the half back flank with occasional stints forward.

Whether Jones and Viney should be captains is a good question, but their polling in the Brownlow is probably the least worthy metric by which to assess their suitability for the job. 

Goodwin just basically played Jones anywhere where he could hide him for the majority of the season. He was a liability at both ends and in the middle. His season was sub VFL standard throughout. The only positives were some cheap goals he got on the end of a few times.

Edited by america de cali
Posted
3 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Jones had an OK year - not great and not particularly bad. But he didn't spend much of it in the midfield. He spent most of the season on the wing or the half back flank with occasional stints forward.

Whether Jones and Viney should be captains is a good question, but their polling in the Brownlow is probably the least worthy metric by which to assess their suitability for the job. 

Jones year was far from ok. What did he do that makes you say that?

i am always amazed at how low we judge our own. 

The Brownlow is a Midfielders award, and our 2 Captains play in that area of the ground, 43 games out of 44

fairly damming to me

  • Like 1
Posted
34 minutes ago, Redleg said:

 Experts working on drafting for a year or two with a group of players, should be able to nail top 10 picks most of the time. Not always, but most of the time. If they can't, they are no good at their job.

Agree, any fool can pick from the Top10.
It's deeper in the draft the good selectors really earn their coin.

Posted

Viney wasn't irrelevant in the Elimination final of 2018, coming back after a seven match absence due to injury, he took G Ablett apart in the first half, going a long way to helping the team move through to the Semi... his 20 possessions included 13 contested, along with 11 tackles... He goes one better in the Semi v Hawks with 27 possessions, 17 of those contested. I looked back to his previous few games before injury... Round 16 - 28 possessions/10 contested... Round 15 - 26 possessions/14 contested.

Then I checked his most recent games in 2019... last four rounds - 3 above 20 possessions, one other 18 possessions.

Most here would be aware that injury has had a detrimental effect on Viney's form for the past four seasons... He has had great difficulty putting a pre-season together in that time. When he has made it onto the field, he continues to give his all... fearless, dogged and, on several occasions, inspiring! There is no mystery about his appointment as Captain... he is still young. Barring injury, he will get better. Childish to treat him with such disrespect!

  • Like 1
Posted
1 minute ago, waynewussell said:

Viney wasn't irrelevant in the Elimination final of 2018, coming back after a seven match absence due to injury, he took G Ablett apart in the first half, going a long way to helping the team move through to the Semi... his 20 possessions included 13 contested, along with 11 tackles... He goes one better in the Semi v Hawks with 27 possessions, 17 of those contested. I looked back to his previous few games before injury... Round 16 - 28 possessions/10 contested... Round 15 - 26 possessions/14 contested.

Then I checked his most recent games in 2019... last four rounds - 3 above 20 possessions, one other 18 possessions.

Most here would be aware that injury has had a detrimental effect on Viney's form for the past four seasons... He has had great difficulty putting a pre-season together in that time. When he has made it onto the field, he continues to give his all... fearless, dogged and, on several occasions, inspiring! There is no mystery about his appointment as Captain... he is still young. Barring injury, he will get better. Childish to treat him with such disrespect!

Viney has upside but not as a leader. Jones needs to retire pronto. 

  • Like 1
Posted

 

5 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Viney has upside but not as a leader. Jones needs to retire pronto. 

Jones won't retire till he's told.
He's smart enough to know he won't earn 350K a year in the real world.
Gotta fund the family ski trips somehow.
He calls it "Perspective".

Posted

Jones stopped being outstanding 2 years ago.

  • Like 1
Posted
25 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Jones year was far from ok. What did he do that makes you say that?

i am always amazed at how low we judge our own. 

The Brownlow is a Midfielders award, and our 2 Captains play in that area of the ground, 43 games out of 44

fairly damming to me

He wasn't dropped to the reserves. You may believe he should have been (and at times I did, too) but he kept his position in the side.  

Posted
6 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

Viney leads by example... the closest we have to Selwood. He is 25 and yet to reach his peak. Jones has been outstanding for a long time!

How would both our Captains have played last Saturday afternoon?

what kind of inspirational leadership did we see in 2019?

Lay it all out for us all to see. 

Posted
1 minute ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

He wasn't dropped to the reserves. You may believe he should have been (and at times I did, too) but he kept his position in the side.  

Wow. That is telling criteria

no suprise we finished 17 under those guidelines 

Posted
12 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

Viney leads by example... the closest we have to Selwood. He is 25 and yet to reach his peak. Jones has been outstanding for a long time!

'Wayne', you've made a good point re the metric of the Brownlow not being a good indicator of whether or not someone should be captain. I agree with you on this.

However I don't think Viney is anything like Selwood as a captain.

On ground I can see some similarities but off ground they are poles apart. 

Personally I would rather Viney step down and concentrate on playing.

Nathan won't be Captain next season.

Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

What is really amazing here is that Trolls on this site can reach well in excess of 1500 posts!

 

If only the club won more and embarrassed itself less.
Far less material to work with.
Wonder how the trolls are going on Yellow and Black right now.

Edited by Fork 'em
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Well it's actually not hindsight, if they declare their choices before the draft.

As an example most on DL thought we would take Daniel Talia if he was there at our pick. He was and we took Jordan Gysberts.

It was a shock to most DL's. It got much more shocking as the years rolled on.

That is but one of many examples.

I know drafting is an inexact science, but we have had far too many misses. I won't mention wasted early picks in Toumpas, Cook and Morton as that would only upset people.

Experts working on drafting for a year or two with a group of players, should be able to nail top 10 picks most of the time. Not always, but most of the time. If they can't, they are no good at their job.

As we know, drafting and trading are the ways to build a good list. Stuff that up and success becomes nearly impossible. 

All clubs have any misses, I still stand by my post that no one on this site could do a better job than the recruiting teams for any club

Edited by drysdale demon
spelling
  • Like 1
Posted
24 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Wow. That is telling criteria

no suprise we finished 17 under those guidelines 

I'm not sure if we're agreeing or arguing! I agree that Jones should not be captain and that he is lucky not have been dropped during the season just passed. When I said that his season was OK because he wasn't dropped, that wasn't intended to be a ringing endorsement, just a statement that if he had actually been any poorer, he would have been playing in the VFL side.

However, as I've said many times on Demonland, the team's capatin doesn't have to be its best player. It has to be someone who is guaranteed to be in the team's best 22 when everyone is available but more importantly has to show leadership on and off the field. (In my opinion, showing leadership on field was not that important until they changed the rule about runners being on the ground). Off field leadership includes stuff we see - such as media interviews - as well as things we would have no idea about (setting training standards, meeting/greeting sponsors, setting professional standards, working with the younger players, etc). As Jones in 2020 could not possibly be guaranteed a spot in the best 22 and as neither Jones or Viney are good media performers, I don't think either should be captain.

Getting back to the point of this thread, how a player goes in the Brownlow is no indicator of whether they should be captain or not. Low vote numbers mean just as much as high vote numbers (does anyone believe Dustin Martin would be a good captain?)

  • Like 1
Posted

Let the Co's just focus on getting the best pre-season in possible.

Both only managed half a pre-season so lets see how they go on all cylinders.

It's not just about fitness though they both need to improve their decision making and disposal skills and Viney needs to add some serious evasive agility and quick ball spread by hand to his arsenal if he's going to be asked to continue to play serious time in the middle.

Big M Captain and AVB as VC if he makes it through.  May as DVC or VC if AVB is still NQR towards the season proper.

I think Jack will improve with a full pre-season but he aint no captain.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    THE ACCIDENTAL DEMONS by The Oracle

    In the space of eight days, the Melbourne Football Club’s plans for the coming year were turned upside down by two season-ending injuries to players who were contending strongly for places in its opening round match against the GWS Giants. Shane McAdam was first player to go down with injury when he ruptured an Achilles tendon at Friday afternoon training, a week before the cut-off date for the AFL’s pre-season supplemental selection period (“SSP”). McAdam was beginning to get some real mom

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features

    PREGAME: Practice Match vs Fremantle

    The Demons hit the road for what will be their first of 8 interstate trips this year when they play their final practice match before the 2025 AFL Premiership Season against the Fremantle Dockers in Perth on Sunday, 2nd March @ 6:10pm (AEDT). 2025 AAMI Community Series Sun Mar 2 Fremantle v Melbourne, Rushton Oval, Mandurah, 3.10pm AWST (6.10pm AEDT)

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 97

    RETURN TO NORMAL by Whispering Jack

    One of my prized possessions is a framed, autographed guernsey bearing the number 31 worn by my childhood hero, Melbourne’s champion six time premiership player Ronald Dale Barassi who passed away on 16 September 2023, aged 87. The former captain who went on to a successful coaching career, mainly with other clubs, came back to the fold in his later years as a staunch Demon supporter who often sat across the way from me in the Northern Stand of the MCG cheering on the team. Barassi died the

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    PODCAST: Match SIM vs North Melbourne

    Join us LIVE on Monday night at 8:30pm—note that this special time is just for this week due to prior commitments. We'll break down the Match SIM against North Melbourne and wrap up the preseason with insights into training and our latest recruits. I apologize for skipping our annual season review show at the end of last season. After a disapponting season filled with off-field antics and a heated trade week, I needed a break. Thankfully, the offseason has recharged me, and I’m back—ready t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 42

    GAMEDAY: Match SIM vs North Melbourne

    After an agonizingly long off-season the 2025 AFL Premiership Season is almost upon us and the Demons have their first practice hit out against the Kangaroos in a match simulation out at Arden Street. The Demons will take on the Kangaroos in match simulation play, starting from 10am AEDT and broadcast live on Foxtel and Kayo. The play start time was brought forward from the initial 11am bounce, due to the high temperatures forecast.  The match sim will consist of four 25-minute qu

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 465

    TRAINING: Friday 21st February 2025

    Demonland Trackwatchers beat the Friday heat to bring you their observations from this morning's Captain's Run out at Gosch's Paddock in the lead up to their first hit out in a Practice Match tomorrow against the Kangaroos. TRAVY14'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS On the park: Trac Spargo Gawn Viney Langdon May Fritsch Salem Henderson Rehab: McVee (updated to include Melk, Kolt, AMW and Kentfield) Spoke to "Gus" the trainer, he said these are the guys no

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Wednesday 19th February 2025

    Demonlander The Analyser was the sole Trackwatcher out at Casey Fields today to bring you the following observations from this mornings preseason training session. Training  was at Casey today. It consisted of a match simulation for one half  and then a free choice activity time. Activities included kicking for goal,  aerial , contest work etc. I noticed the following players not in match simulation Jack Viney  running laps and looks fine for round one . I think Kolt looks like he’s im

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports 1

    TRAINING: Monday 17th February 2025

    Demonland Trackwatchers were on hand at Monday morning's preseason training at Gosch's Paddock to bring you their brief observations of the session. HARVEY WALLBANGER'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Gentle flush session at Gosch's this morning. Absent: May, Pickett (All Stars) McVee, McAdam. Rehabbing: Great to see Kentfield back (much slimmer), walking with Tholstrup, TMac (suspect just a management thing), Viney (still being cautious with that rib cartilage?), Melksham (

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    MATCH SIM: Friday 14th February 2025

    A couple of Demonland Trackwatchers made their way out to Casey Field's for the Melbourne Football Club's Family Series day to bring you their observations on the Match Simulation. HARVEY WALLBANGER'S MATCH SIMULATION OBSERVATIONS Absent: May, Pickett (All Stars), McVee, Windor, Kentfield, Mentha Present but not playing: Petracca, Viney, Spargo, Tholstrup, Melksham Starting Blue 18 (+ just 2 interchange): B: Petty, TMac, Lever, Howes, Bowey Salem M: Gawn, Oliver, La

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...