We are due for a Rebuild.

[dazzledavey36 55,318]

Just now, olisik said:

Jayden Stephenson, Connor Rozee and Sam Walsh say hi.

LOL! you honestly think packaging up a Jayden  Hunt or Oscar with a 3rd round pick or 2nd will actually net us a 1st rounder??

This is straight out #olisikmyths at its best.

[olisik 4,060]

7 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

But people keep telling me Jason Taylor has recruited superbly over the past five years.

How is it possible we need a mini rebuild?

We need a big rebuild. I am in the Taylor has messed it up camp. Missed out on Degoey, Himmelberg and Curnow.

[olisik 4,060]

1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

LOL! you honestly think packaging up a Jayden  Hunt or Oscar with a 3rd round pick or 2nd will actually net us a 1st rounder??

This is straight out #olisikmyths at its best.

Seems the words compounding factor is too hard for you to understand. Always making a fool of yourself

[Storm Boy 376]

We need to go back what we did in 2015 and get 2 picks inside the top 10.

[dazzledavey36 55,318]

1 minute ago, olisik said:

Seems the words compounding factor is too hard for you to understand. Always making a fool of yourself

You said packaging up Omac or Hunt with a 2nd or 3rd round pick will move is up the draft for more draft picks.

Surely you are not stupid enough to actually believe those guys will actually improve out draft order?

Hunt and Omac are 3rd to 4th rounders at best.

[dimmy 1,308]

I liked it last week when we won and we kept all out players and were making a charge to the finals.

The selectors stuffed it up this week by picking OMac (albeit as an emerg) He would have to be the worst Emerg in the AFL. so we should trade him for a better emergency. He got plenty of kicks and handballs ,but it was on the wrong day. Just when people needed an experienced whipping boy, they do not play him.

Be fair , Zorko is an AAust, Neale was a bargain for them , Hipwood had better gets his pictures from today , because he is not as good as he thinks he is. because he was part of the Hogan trade. We could have made direct trade for May vs OMac (even though he is an Emerg) Gawny will probably ber out for a while )I reckon) so we will see what tak Preuss has..

Weid is only another week older so has not fully developed yet from last week.

I hate to say this because he is one of my favourites, but Gus did three clanging hanballs (over shoulder without looking) and OMac did not read them. As a consequence 3 goals down. Our problem today is that we just did not execute to the standard that we set ourselves up to.

WHat is the point in trading like no tomorrow our 4 year players to get someone who just appears to be better onl;y because we do not see them every gamne. I feel we will learn from 2019 and with very little change of personnel will improve drastically in 2020.

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

1 hour ago, praha said:

I called this a few weeks ago and was shutdown.

I wouldn't say we need a full rebuild. We need to go the Richmond 2016 route. That means making a tough decision (Deledio) and taking a chance on young talent (Prestia, Caddy).

Coaching wise, Goodwim needs a refresher and maybe a new set of faces. But we are potentially looking at a huge turnover at seasons end. Rumblings I'm hearing within football fraternity is that Bartlett and Pert have both indirectly put football department on notice. Goodwin has a little under 12 months to turn it around.

I fully concur with you Praha.

We are going to have to take some calculated risks. I expect at least one bigger name on the list to be traded out while they still have some cachet. Petracca for me is right in the gun, as is potentially Brayshaw, Weideman and Hunt. They have to fix the forward line, stat. It is diabolical. Close to the worst we've seen in 30 years at Melbourne.

We will have a caretaker coach by this time next year if Goodwin can't right the ship. There is massive pressure on everyone now, from top down. The recruiting has not been good enough and is the primary reason the list lacks the depth and star quality necessary to genuinely challenge.

I'm now happy Pert is there. An outsider. He gets it and has shown he is more than willing to rattle cages and fire up the blowtorch.

Going to be some sweeping changes in the off season. Few are safe.

[Adzman 2,154]

We are paying the price for our deals at the trade table over the past few years. I'm not putting this on all on the trades (form of senior players, injuries and coaching panel have played a part), it's just more that with us giving away so many top end picks it has denied us the opportunity to have a young a-grade talent push through and move the list forward.

We have done ok drafting in the middle parts of the draft, picking up some good solid talent who don't have star quality.  Having one A grade kid push through the team right now would be really helpful. Instead we paid a heavy proce for the likes of Lever and May who are good footballers but haven't made the side better*

*Injuries have stopped the potential of these players making the team better, however when you pay a high price this is the cost to the list if that prize player gets hurt. 

[Return to Glory 8,448]

We've been cruelled by injury this year. Put it into perspective. Fit list to choose from and a Noah Anderson and away we go.

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

9 minutes ago, olisik said:

We need a big rebuild. I am in the Taylor has messed it up camp. Missed out on Degoey, Himmelberg and Curnow.

Yes. Even worse is his strike rate beyond the first round. It's just terrible. Charlie Spargo? FMD. In what universe does a recruiter believe he'll become an AFL player. 

Weideman over Curnow was the last straw for me. I mean an effing disgrace. They guy should be cleaning out his desk tomorrow morning. Had a gutful of the incompetence.

 

[dazzledavey36 55,318]

4 minutes ago, Adzman said:

We are paying the price for our deals at the trade table over the past few years. I'm not putting this on all on the trades (form of senior players, injuries and coaching panel have played a part), it's just more that with us giving away so many top end picks it has denied us the opportunity to have a young a-grade talent push through and move the list forward.

We have done ok drafting in the middle parts of the draft, picking up some good solid talent who don't have star quality.  Having one A grade kid push through the team right now would be really helpful. Instead we paid a heavy proce for the likes of Lever and May who are good footballers but haven't made the side better*

*Injuries have stopped the potential of these players making the team better, however when you pay a high price this is the cost to the list if that prize player gets hurt. 

Giving away two 1st rounders for Lever was just a debacle for me.. we pulled the trigger too early on that.

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Giving away two 1st rounders for Lever was just a debacle for me.. we pulled the trigger too early on that.

Wholeheartedly agree. Josh Mahoney fingerprints on that one. Weak and pathetic to throw away an extra first round pick like that without a fight. It doesn't happen at Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn etc. 

It's amateur hour at Melbourne. That's probably an insult to well run VAFA A grade clubs.

[Redlegged 81]

Water under the bridge. Lever is 22 or 23? Good percentage of first rounders are duds. Too much gold-digging around here.

[Redlegged 81]

7 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Yes. Even worse is his strike rate beyond the first round. It's just terrible. Charlie Spargo? FMD. In what universe does a recruiter believe he'll become an AFL player. 

Weideman over Curnow was the last straw for me. I mean an effing disgrace. They guy should be cleaning out his desk tomorrow morning. Had a gutful of the incompetence.

 

Writing Charlie off to ear,y. He's 19 for Christ's sake. Useful last year. Disappointing this year, yes - but he's not alone. Panic and abuse - unbecoming.

[Redlegged 81]

14 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

I fully concur with you Praha.

We are going to have to take some calculated risks. I expect at least one bigger name on the list to be traded out while they still have some cachet. Petracca for me is right in the gun, as is potentially Brayshaw, Weideman and Hunt. They have to fix the forward line, stat. It is diabolical. Close to the worst we've seen in 30 years at Melbourne.

We will have a caretaker coach by this time next year if Goodwin can't right the ship. There is massive pressure on everyone now, from top down. The recruiting has not been good enough and is the primary reason the list lacks the depth and star quality necessary to genuinely challenge.

I'm now happy Pert is there. An outsider. He gets it and has shown he is more than willing to rattle cages and fire up the blowtorch.

Going to be some sweeping changes in the off season. Few are safe.

Palpitations are bad for you. Calm down!

[dee-tox 4,835]

We need to do something.

Three of our five best kicks are nearing the end. Lewis, Jones and Hibberd.

No one in the team has the elite ball carrying abilities we need apart from Salem.

The key forwards are not working and we have no natural crumbers.

We have many, many holes...

 

 

[olisik 4,060]

I do admit, before we Down go down this path we need someone else at the negotiating table. We get bent over every trade with Mahoney at the helm.

[drysdale demon 4,837]

1 hour ago, olisik said:

Our midfield, wings and Forward line are not AFL standard. We can’t hit handpasses, our mids don’t defend, our key forwards don’t even take shots at goals when inside 50. 

We need to look to trade out some players to get ourself back into the draft. For the right offer I feel OMac, Hunt, Viney, Brayshaw, Trac, Tmac and Weeds should be in consideration to help us reset our list and team balance and fill these gaps.

We arnt going to get close to a premiership with this list

I can foresee multiple pages of hysterical posts coming in this thread.

[Redlegged 81]

You are executing Jones and Hibberd a bit early. H has had a a bad run with injuries - has a couple of years in him. Jones had been good in the past couple of  weeks, and may have found a useful new role. He is not finished - except as co-captain.

[praha 11,240]

21 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

We've been cruelled by injury this year. Put it into perspective. Fit list to choose from and a Noah Anderson and away we go.

We've lost key players no doubt but we're staring down the barrel of a potential bottom 2 finish. After everything the club has been through that would be truly devastating. Injuries or not there is something wrong/missing. Our core has remained mostly intact but we've actually lost games in key areas where we haven't lost players and that's been in the middle and forward. Our key player losses have been defensively and we've blooded good talent down there (Hore, Lockheart) and are now only missing Lever and Jetta. Those two alone shouldn't make or break our team. Regardless we will likely be 17th by this time next week. And I suspect the Jumanji jungle drums will start beating for Goodwin. 2019 is currently standing to be a major indictment on both Roos' and Jackson's long term plans for the club. 

I think a lot of people on this forum are understating how significant a drop we're witnessing, whilst also overstating the impact of injuries. You don't go from a prelim to bottom 4 on the back on injuries alone. It's a combination of things over time. Player management, trades, drafting, culture, coaching, structures, training loads. 

Either we need a rebuild or Goodwin is gone. It's one or the other.

Edited June 30, 2019 by praha

[Sir Why You Little 37,125]

Personally i would be trading out Coaches and Staff at the end of the year, before attacking the Playing list. 

This is all about Gameplans and demanding that players have elite skills, and know when to use them

Goodwin has changed nothing this year....

[Redlegged 81]

1 minute ago, praha said:

We've lost key players no doubt but we're staring down the barrel of a potential bottom 2 finish. After everything the club has been through that would be truly devastating. Injuries or not there is something wrong/missing. Our core has remained mostly intact but we've actually lost games in key areas where we haven't lost players and that's been in the middle and forward. Our key losses have been defensively and we've blooded good talent down there (Hore, Lockheart) and are now only missing Lever and Jetta. Those two alone shouldn't make or break our team. Regardless we will likely be 17th by this time next week. And i suspect the Jumanji jungle drums will start beating for Goodwin.

Correct. And if Melbourne (egged on by the media and 'supporter' drama queens)  wets it pants into making another peremptory sacking, it will set it back another 5 years. And so it goes.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

58 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

We dont need a rebuild. We need to add quality and experience onto our list. 

Brisbane showed this year that with good trading it can work if you bring in the right quality in. They added Neale and McCarthy as trades then hit a bargain with a delisted free agent in Jarryd Lyons. They've all made significant impact this year with a tinkering of their game plan.

Richmond did te same at the end of 2016 when they brough in Prestia, Caddy and Nankervis. All 3 played a huge role in that premiership year in 2017. They too tinkered their game.

Start first by adding someone like Ed Langdon and along with a top 5 pick and maybe another decent trade in.

It can change quite quickly.

This x 10 ?

[praha 11,240]

1 minute ago, Redlegged said:

Correct. And if Melbourne (egged on by the media and 'supporter' drama queens)  wets it pants into making another peremptory sacking, it will set it back another 5 years. And so it goes.

You may be right but you can't ignore the facts. The reality of where we have come from, where we were, and where we are points to something being majorly amiss here. The wheels have fallen off. A slump is finishing 10th-12th after a finals years. We're looking at bottom 4. Potentially bottom 2 if Carlton's form continues.

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

1 minute ago, Redlegged said:

Correct. And if Melbourne (egged on by the media and 'supporter' drama queens)  wets it pants into making another peremptory sacking, it will set it back another 5 years. And so it goes.

Equally, peremptory change can be both necessary and courageous.

Would you want the wrong doctor performing open heart surgery on your child? Or would you prefer others not to wet their pants and get knickers in a twist if strong doubts arose?

This club is bleeding heavily at the moment. Prelim to bottom 3. Some of you are in shock about it.