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Key forwards - let's go shopping!

Matsuo Basho
in Melbourne Demons

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14 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Classy midfielder would be much higher on the shopping list. Get a mid who can deliver the ball lace out and suddenly weideman and TMac will look at lot better

Spot on. 

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    I'm happy with Sam and Tom.  When May and Lever are back it will free Max up to rest/play fwd more instead as the intercept defender he has regularly played.

    The only reason I would go after another tall fwd is if Tom's toe is a ongoing issue:  atm he can't jump, chase, bring the ball to ground or kick more than 40m.  That cannot continue into next year.  We really do need him to be 100% fit and effective for the best part of 22-26 games a season. 

    If we went shopping I would go for two-metre-Pete at GCS.  Yet to renew his contract and iirc we were very, very keen on him in his draft year.  Played 60 games, soon to be 23 and at 203cm yet to reach his prime. 

    Edited by Lucifer's Hero

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    2 hours ago, Matsuo Basho said:

    I will add that Weideman would benefit immensely from the presence of a new key forward in the team. As would TMac. Both suddenly get heat taken away from them and TMac is released to use his engine as a roaming forward with license to lead as high up as the wing. It's a no brainer.

    We can solve BOTH the key forward and small forward issues at this trade/draft period but we might have to get a little creative.

    I reckon he'd benefit far more from the forward 50 entries of a classy and skilled midfielder who can lace him out a few times a game

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    I’m happy to stick with Tom and Sam.

    I think you can almost win a flag with Tim Smith and Declan Keilty is you have the right mids, mediums and smalls. 

    Pies nearly did with Cox and Mihocek. Dogs did with Boyd and Cordy. 

    If the draft falls the way of taking a tall then that’s fine, but I wouldn’t break the bank for a B grader. Save the cash, we’ll need it elsewhere 

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    I also hold hopes that Mr Preuss can build a tank over the next 2 preseasons and be another strong option in the forward line. The reality is that not all of our tall forwards will be fit or in form for a whole season. Once he has a tank I'd like to see Mr Preuss given the opportunity for a few games in a row. Has shown he has some understanding of leading patterns, is quite a strong mark and neat kick for his size, and has goal awareness. Not saying he is our next key forward, just that he will need to show veratility to get games while Max is our no 1 ruck.

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    3 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

    I also hold hopes that Mr Preuss can build a tank over the next 2 preseasons and be another strong option in the forward line. The reality is that not all of our tall forwards will be fit or in form for a whole season. Once he has a tank I'd like to see Mr Preuss given the opportunity for a few games in a row. Has shown he has some understanding of leading patterns, is quite a strong mark and neat kick for his size, and has goal awareness. Not saying he is our next key forward, just that he will need to show veratility to get games while Max is our no 1 ruck.

    Agreed. I’d even want a good look at him later this year if he’s fit. There’s no point running Max in to the ground in August in dead rubbers, that’s the time to split Gawn/Preuss 50/50. 

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    19 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

    I'm happy with Sam and Tom.  When May and Lever are back it will free Max up to rest/play fwd more instead as the intercept defender he has regularly played.

    The only reason I would go after another tall fwd is if Tom's toe is a ongoing issue:  atm he can't jump, chase, bring the ball to ground or kick more than 40m.  That cannot continue into next year.  We really do need him to be 100% fit and effective for the best part of 22-26 games a season. 

    If we went shopping I would go for two-metre-Pete at GCS.  Yet to renew his contract and iirc we were very, very keen on him in his draft year.  Played 60 games, soon to be 23 and at 203cm yet to reach his prime. 

    2m Peter is a good suggestion. Has shown glimpses he can take a game by the scruff, has kicked bags of 5+. Excellent prospect.

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    I can't believe this thread arose so soon.

    We had Hogan with a year to run on his contract and bent over at the trade table when dishing him off.

    We then got an unfit and unprofessional May and hyped KK (hopefully he comes to fruition).

    The club's plan was to have Weideman, T.Mc, and Preuss/Gawn as tall targets up front. I say stick to that instead go hard for J.Kelly and J.Martin who'll provide us with outside run and kicking efficiency going inside 50. Also, fix the position of the full forward - have someone near constantly leading from the square (or close to).

    If there are still problems, then look elsewhere.

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    8 minutes ago, ignition. said:

    I can't believe this thread arose so soon.

    We had Hogan with a year to run on his contract and bent over at the trade table when dishing him off.

    We then got an unfit and unprofessional May and hyped KK (hopefully he comes to fruition).

    The club's plan was to have Weideman, T.Mc, and Preuss/Gawn as tall targets up front. I say stick to that instead go hard for J.Kelly and J.Martin who'll provide us with outside run and kicking efficiency going inside 50. Also, fix the position of the full forward - have someone near constantly leading from the square (or close to).

    If there are still problems, then look elsewhere.

    When you have two key forwards who have combined for a total of 15 goals in their 18 appearances by round 11 ... read those numbers again ... it’s time to start the conversation. 

    What’s with this blinkered thinking that you can only address one area of need in an off season? Particularly when you are likely to finish bottom six, a number of avenues open up. There are FA’s, pick swaps, trades - a host of ways you can skin a cat.

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    12 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

    When you have two key forwards who have combined for a total of 15 goals in their 18 appearances by round 11 ... read those numbers again ... it’s time to start the conversation. 

    What’s with this blinkered thinking that you can only address one area of need in an off season? Particularly when you are likely to finish bottom six, a number of avenues open up. There are FA’s, pick swaps, trades - a host of ways you can skin a cat.

    When Sam Weideman came into the side against West Coast they played 5 games all up together finishing in the preliminary final.

    In those 5 games they averaged 19 goals between them.

    Weideman and McDonald will be fine. They like everyone else in our team are just going through a rut. I am backing them in to fins that kind of form in the 2nd half or next year when they have both completed full pre seasons.

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    25 minutes ago, ignition. said:

    I can't believe this thread arose so soon.

    We had Hogan with a year to run on his contract and bent over at the trade table when dishing him off.

    We then got an unfit and unprofessional May and hyped KK (hopefully he comes to fruition).

    The club's plan was to have Weideman, T.Mc, and Preuss/Gawn as tall targets up front. I say stick to that instead go hard for J.Kelly and J.Martin who'll provide us with outside run and kicking efficiency going inside 50. Also, fix the position of the full forward - have someone near constantly leading from the square (or close to).

    If there are still problems, then look elsewhere.

    Kelly signed a long term deal with GWS this year

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    3 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

    Shai Bolton

    How long has Jack Higgins signed on at Richmond I wonder. After shelling out close to $1m/season for Tom Lynch their cap has got to be stretched to breaking point. Maybe we could shake Higgins loose like Richmond did with Caddy from the Cats. Going to be a great 10 year small forward Higgins.

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    29 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

    How long has Jack Higgins signed on at Richmond I wonder. After shelling out close to $1m/season for Tom Lynch their cap has got to be stretched to breaking point. Maybe we could shake Higgins loose like Richmond did with Caddy from the Cats. Going to be a great 10 year small forward Higgins.

    Let's be realistic. Higgins was their first round pick 2 years ago and you'd have to give them pick 10-15 again and another pick swap. Shai Bolton is a player thats been pushed out due to a gluttony of developed or elite small fwds, was only offered 1 year last year and would come cheaply as he was a pick 29 initially.

    Edit: But on the other hand, if we're being realistic, Goodwin wouldn't take the risk unless he had some inside midfield attributes lol.

    Edited by John Demonic

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    3 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

    Let's be realistic. Higgins was their first round pick 2 years ago and you'd have to give them pick 10-15 again and another pick swap. Shai Bolton is a player thats been pushed out due to a gluttony of developed or elite small fwds, was only offered 1 year last year and would come cheaply as he was a pick 29 initially.

    Edit: But on the other hand, if we're being realistic, Goodwin wouldn't take the risk on a non-plodder.

    What's unrealistic? Geelong traded out Caddy to Richmond for pick 24. He was originally a pick 8 at Gold Coast. 

    I would trade an early second rounder for Higgins no dramas.

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    48 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

    What's unrealistic? Geelong traded out Caddy to Richmond for pick 24. He was originally a pick 8 at Gold Coast. 

    I would trade an early second rounder for Higgins no dramas.

    Geelong had a gluttony of midfielders where Caddy was wanting to play and that trade is actually considered one of Geelongs worst trades because they let him go for not much. It was a bizarre trade related to the Deledio request that didnt get done. It's not really a benchmark for future trades. 

    See: https://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/sport/afl/josh-caddy-trade-geelong-fans-take-to-social-media-to-express-anger-over-move/news-story/ffebaf85a631a1f75874da40c3ec33e1

    Higgins as you said is almost guaranteed an elite 10 year career perhaps of the ilk of Ballantyne or Milne. He's not gettable at the price you are willing to pay. Richmond would want what they used to draft him AND some. They would be budgeting their cap around keeping him and again trimming the fat of their lower 16-22 to draft in more kids.

    Edited by John Demonic

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    18 hours ago, bobby1554 said:

    Agree. As long as Weid is with us next year, which is unknown. But I think Joel Smith could be an option here. Similar in size to Jeremy Cameron, and we know he can kick goals

    Cameron is bigger than Smith.

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    15 minutes ago, Redleg said:

    Cameron is bigger than Smith.

    And the sad truth is that we can't make plans around an assumption that Smith, Vandenberg or Lever are on the park for the rest of their careers once fit. @bobby1554

    Edited by John Demonic

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    42 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

    Geelong had a gluttony of midfielders where Caddy was wanting to play and that trade is actually considered one of Geelongs worst trades because they let him go for not much. It was a bizarre trade related to the Deledio request that didnt get done. It's not really a benchmark for future trades. 

    See: https://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/sport/afl/josh-caddy-trade-geelong-fans-take-to-social-media-to-express-anger-over-move/news-story/ffebaf85a631a1f75874da40c3ec33e1

    Higgins as you said is almost guaranteed an elite 10 year career perhaps of the ilk of Ballantyne or Milne. He's not gettable at the price you are willing to pay. Richmond would want what they used to draft him AND some. They would be budgeting their cap around keeping him and again trimming the fat of their lower 16-22 to draft in more kids.

    Decent argument but where the grey area comes in is how much they've got left in the kitty after those truly monster Dusty and Lynch deals. Then they've got Rance, Reiwoldt, Prestia, Caddy, Cotchin and Vlaustin's wage demands to satisfy. Sidney Stack is going to field big offers. Rioli, Naish, Bolton, Castagna - they've got a glut of other small forwards. 

    If I had a ten year window to make bank as a small forward at AFL level and another Melbourne based club offered me $150k more a year and strong length of tenure, I'd be having a sit on my thinking chair.

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    2 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

    Decent argument but where the grey area comes in is how much they've got left in the kitty after those truly monster Dusty and Lynch deals. Then they've got Rance, Reiwoldt, Prestia, Caddy, Cotchin and Vlaustin's wage demands to satisfy. Sidney Stack is going to field big offers. Rioli, Naish, Bolton, Castagna - they've got a glut of other small forwards. 

    If I had a ten year window to make bank as a small forward at AFL level and another Melbourne based club offered me $150k more a year and strong length of tenure, I'd behaving a sit on my thinking chair.t

    I don't think the Lynch or Martin deals are as monsterous  as you think they are. Dusty is 800, Lynch mightve taken less just to get to a finals contending club. Then I dont actually think the MFC are going to allocate a biggish deal for a crumbing small forward. Better to develop in house or try an undeveloped player. But even if they did: the main point i made is that you did not make a satisfactory offer. They won't take our pick 20-23 or so. You gotta come up with something better.

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    7 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

    I don't think the Lynch or Martin deals are as monsterous  as you think they are. Dusty is 800, Lynch mightve taken less just to get to a finals contending club. Then I dont actually think the MFC are going to allocate a biggish deal for a crumbing small forward. Better to develop in house or try an undeveloped player. But even if they did: the main point i made is that you did not make a satisfactory offer. They won't take our pick 20-23 or so. You gotta come up with something better.

    Dusty $1.2m x 7 years. 

    Lynch $1m x 7 years.

    https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/north-melbourne-expects-dustin-martin-to-turn-down-its-offer-and-sign-a-new-deal-at-richmond/news-story/f9c898d7191c28689f018b0c62d3f30d

    https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/tom-is-a-tiger-richmond-officially-lands-big-fish-tom-lynch-on-sevenyear-deal/news-story/9a7408a6a68acd4ad83727cc44927930

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    1 hour ago, Matsuo Basho said:

    What's unrealistic? Geelong traded out Caddy to Richmond for pick 24. He was originally a pick 8 at Gold Coast. 

    I would trade an early second rounder for Higgins no dramas.

    Caddy is worse than Jenkins

    Can't stand him

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