Umpires hate Melbourne

[Deemania since 56 6,716]

22 hours ago, PaulRB said:

I think the game would benefit from a real time panel of third umpires with the power to nullify the benefit and reverse poor umpiring decisions. I.e. team scores a goal after a clear throw is missed has that score reduced based on real time decision of the third umpires (who have tv slow motion, etc) to adjudicate and decide as best they can. That way play can go on, with fairness somewhat addressed..?

 

It would be a very big step but surely it is necessary as an instant review. It would reduce error and this incidence of crowd pleasing, and bias. 

[FireInTheBennelly 4,099]

On 5/20/2019 at 6:41 AM, Lucifer's Hero said:

Are umpire stats published anywhere? 

Wouldn't mind seeing who pays what free kicks and how many each game.  Would make for interesting reading.

I guarantee the AFL use Champion Data for these particular statistics, but there's no way in hell they'll ever be in the public domain.

You only need to follow the umpires a bit more closely to see what's going on. A couple of years ago one umpire, can't remember which one, absolutely destroyed us for a whole game, on a Sunday afternoon. Next week he was given the Friday night game. Now would you call that some kind of promotion? From the dead slot on Sunday afternoon to primetime tells me the AFL says good job buddy, here's your rewards.

Update (Found the match): Round 22 2016 (Sunday 21st August) Vs Carlton. Free kicks Carlton 20 - Melbourne 5. Umpire Brett Rosebury. Umpired Round 23 (Friday 26th)

The other 2 umpires next weeks, Andrew Mitchell got Ess Vs Car at the G on Saturday afternoon, and Chris Donlon got Nor Vs GWS Saturday night primetime.

I also did some analysis that year that showed if you lose the free kick differential by 13 or more, it was impossible to win the game. -15 in this game, 5 free kicks in total over 4 quarters. The same analysis showed of all the statistics in the modern game the one that had the closest correlation with match wins, was indeed free kicks.

The bottom line in that game was if we'd won it, there was the potential for us to leapfrog GWS to get into the finals in the unlikely event we knocked off the Cats in Rnd 23. Which do you think they'd prefer?

Edited May 21, 2019 by FireInTheBelly
Additional information

[Macca 17,032]

Whilst  the football community continues to spread their hate,  anger & disrespect towards umpires,  not much should be expected in return.  I mean,  what do people expect? 

That catch-cry of 'They're only human' is an insult in itself (if you think about it)

And because of that hate,  anger & disrespect I believe we are never going to attract enough people to umpiring.  Who would want to do it?  So the umpiring ranks often attracts certain types as a general rule (in my opinion)

You get what you pay for and it works both ways. 

Daisy Thomas shouldn't expect any favours given his way in the foreseeable future (if he is guilty)  I have seen umpires being called cheats on this site hundreds of times.  That sort of stuff creates a vicious circle.  No good comes from it.

Apart from all that,  footy is by far the hardest sport to umpire so mistakes are going to be made as a matter of course

If any sport needs video replay it's footy ... yet footy only has goal line replay and not much else.  But bringing in video replay for all questionable calls would lengthen any given game by hours.  So it isn't feasible.

But I also believe that a large part of following footy is the whole yelling and screaming at the umpires bit ... it's part of the sport for most.  It is part of the fabric of the game.  That stuff matters not for me thus you get the other side of the argument

[Macca 17,032]

On 05/20/2019 at 3:19 PM, willmoy said:

Totally agree. It's like telling everyone to move on after the two biggest racists in Queensland politics increase their majoritys, and the population move on because they are too dumb to do anything else...........

 

5 hours ago, Macca said:

You need to be proactive on this issue if it is such a problem for you.  Contact the AFL with your concerns. 

It is no good voicing your concerns on these types of forums as nothing will come of it.  And don't ask me to do the same as I don't have a problem with the inconsistencies of umpiring ... never have,  never will.

And make sure you put your argument across in the same manner ... with the Melbourne Football Club at the forefront. 

Send them a link to this thread while your at it it (Umpires hate Melbourne) ... you could also link up all the other similar threads from the various other clubs that are along the same lines.

You want change,  make it happen. 

Garner support from others but those others can't start arguing in a macro way all of a sudden.  The argument has to remain as a Melbourne Football Club issue.

Come to think of it,  you might want to contact the MFC first. 

Let me know how you go

 

 

[GCDee 3,199]

30 minutes ago, Macca said:

Whilst  the football community continues to spread their hate,  anger & disrespect towards umpires,  not much should be expected in return.  I mean,  what do people expect? 

That catch-cry of 'They're only human' is an insult in itself (if you think about it)

And because of that hate,  anger & disrespect I believe we are never going to attract enough people to umpiring.  Who would want to do it?  So the umpiring ranks often attracts certain types as a general rule (in my opinion)

You get what you pay for and it works both ways. 

Daisy Thomas shouldn't expect any favours given his way in the foreseeable future (if he is guilty)  I have seen umpires being called cheats on this site hundreds of times.  That sort of stuff creates a vicious circle.  No good comes from it.

Apart from all that,  footy is by far the hardest sport to umpire so mistakes are going to be made as a matter of course

If any sport needs video replay it's footy ... yet footy only has goal line replay and not much else.  But bringing in video replay for all questionable calls would lengthen any given game by hours.  So it isn't feasible.

But I also believe that a large part of following footy is the whole yelling and screaming at the umpires bit ... it's part of the sport for most.  It is part of the fabric of the game.  That stuff matters not for me thus you get the other side of the argument

A part time job which pays over $100K PA working on the big stage week in week out... I think there are many who would be up for it.... 

Yes umpires are human, yes they will make mistakes however these guys are highly paid professionals in a nation wide sport where it seems rules and decisions are changed weekly, actually scrap that, between games. They in reality between the three field umpires should be nailing 95%+ of decisions, all be on the same page and have the same understanding of each rule which should be adjudicated exactly the same week in week out. 

Sadly this is just not the case, the frustration for fans comes when for example a really harsh HTB decision is paid then the exact same umpire in the next passage of play will make a completely opposite call. How could this happen in a nation wide sport? Of course fans will cause uproar and if we don't I think the AFL will continue to just go with the flow and keep on keeping on. We will continue to have head scratching decisions and confused as hell players. 

Maggots, sorry.... Margetts did everything in his power on the weekend to get his beloved Eagles across the line, there is no denying that.... He made many "mistakes" in that final term and should be held accountable. What that means I am not sure, suspension? WAFL time? no clue.... 

The first thing that should happen is never have a home state umpiring their own team, IE WCE V MELB should have only NSW, QLD, ADEL umpires. 

The next thing the AFL should do is make all field umpires Full Time, throughout the week they can work on positioning for best viewing of contests to limit "mistakes", fitness training, and reviewing footage of their daily [censored] ups and learn from these mistakes just like the players do. The end result would be a fair competition, if that is what the AFL wants.... 

[Macca 17,032]

26 minutes ago, GCDee said:

A part time job which pays over $100K PA working on the big stage week in week out... I think there are many who would be up for it....

I believe numerous people would be put off umpiring based on the hate,  abuse,  disrespect and anger that would come their way as a matter of course.

And the word coming out from football bodies is that it is hard to attract umpires to the sport.  In junior footy umpires are doubling up or umpiring numerous games on the weekend.  And that has been the case for decades

Of all the thousands of people who contribute or read this site,  how many are umpires or would do it.  I'm guessing very few.  The proof in the pudding is in the eating.

You could do it because as you said,  umpires can earn in excess of $100k per season

Why not give it a go?  What have you got to lose?

And for anyone out there who is a footy umpire,  come on here and have your say.  Those at the coalface would know more than us.

[sue 9,141]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

......

But I also believe that a large part of following footy is the whole yelling and screaming at the umpires bit ... it's part of the sport for most.  It is part of the fabric of the game.  That stuff matters not for me thus you get the other side of the argument

I must congratulate you Macca on your finding a new reason to not try to improve the umpiring - the fans enjoy it when it is bad.

[Macca 17,032]

12 minutes ago, sue said:

 

I said that the whole yelling and screaming at umpires is part of the sport

For proof ... go to any game.  The yelling and screaming is there for the whole match bar a few quiet spots here and there.

And it has been going on that way since the 19th century

Why?  Because the game cannot be umpired correctly therefore there are numerous mistakes made.  Therefore the crowd yells and screams at the umpires.  It's not rocket science.

So if you want every decision to be correct,  please explain how that can happen.  Genuine question.  Has to be a feasible answer too. No pie in the sky stuff

Be realistic.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Macca

[sue 9,141]

Since this thread has elements of general discussion of umpiring and not just 'why we might be hated or not', I'll add this re Daisy Thomas' woes:

The AFL clarified on Tuesday that all boundary and field umpires are instructed to assist teams in ensuring they uphold the 6-6-6 rules before play is officially restarted.

So why does any team ever get warned or pinged for infringing?  It would require deliberate ignoring of the umpire' assistance, which seems unlikely.  Sounds like yet another rule that is left to the vagaries of the umpire's mood.

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

I said that the whole yelling and screaming at umpires is part of the sport

For proof ... go to any game.  The yelling and screaming is there for the whole match bar a few quiet spots here and there.

And it has been going on that way since the 19th century

Why?  Because the game cannot be umpired correctly therefore there are numerous mistakes made.  Therefore the crowd yells and screams at the umpires.  It's not rocket science.

So if you want every decision to be correct,  please explain how that can happen.  Genuine question.  Has to be a feasible answer too. No pie in the sky stuff

Be realistic.

Macca, you miss my sarcastic point entirely and instead yet again repeat your well-known views on which my post made no comment.   

In answer to your genuine question, I won't explain how umpiring can be perfected since to repeat my well-known views, all I claim is that it can be improved and it is worth trying to do so.  

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

I said that the whole yelling and screaming at umpires is part of the sport

For proof ... go to any game.  The yelling and screaming is there for the whole match bar a few quiet spots here and there.

And it has been going on that way since the 19th century

Why?  Because the game cannot be umpired correctly therefore there are numerous mistakes made.  Therefore the crowd yells and screams at the umpires.  It's not rocket science.

So if you want every decision to be correct,  please explain how that can happen.  Genuine question.  Has to be a feasible answer too. No pie in the sky stuff

Be realistic.

In relation to your last paragraph, i think there could be a future technical answer to that , as is done in a not very tidy fashion with goal/point decisions. This is pretty rudimentary at the moment, but could be sped up gradually. I have rights to vent my opinion as do you. Umpires in interstate games were picked from other states for many years, why not now?

This is a good conversation which at the moment i must withdraw sadly because of moving, Will watch.

[Macca 17,032]

21 minutes ago, willmoy said:

In relation to your last paragraph, i think there could be a future technical answer to that , as is done in a not very tidy fashion with goal/point decisions. This is pretty rudimentary at the moment, but could be sped up gradually. I have rights to vent my opinion as do you. Umpires in interstate games were picked from other states for many years, why not now?

This is a good conversation which at the moment i must withdraw sadly because of moving, Will watch.

It seems that as much as I am diametrically opposed to most on this thread I am at least putting up a possible fix willmoy

Most others are just annoyed at the umpires and want it fixed ... full time umpires being the main answer

But that would never be enough as the sport is extremely difficult to umpire right now and it is harder to umpire than it ever was

Here are some of the suggestions that I have put forward previously ... all designed to improve the sport and make it easier to umpire

- 15  a side

- Either no interchange or 10 rotations per team for the entire match

- More defined rules such as incorrect disposal being clamped down on and 'Around the neck' being paid for crude tackles only.  Any ducking to be penalised retrospectively.

- keep '666' in to accompany the above

- Full time umpires

- Kicking backwards to be outlawed (must kick over the mark) and a mark only paid if the ball travels at least 20 metres

There's almost certainly more that can be done to make the game easier to umpire but that'll do for now.

But there lies another problem ... most don't have a problem with how the game is currently designed or played ... many want the game to be left alone. 'Let the Game Evolve' is the catch-cry.

My rebuttal is that unless we make the game easier to umpire,  the problem with umpiring remains.  And right now,  I am not apportioning blame on the umpires.  That's the back-end of a much bigger problem.

[GCDee 3,199]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

I believe numerous people would be put off umpiring based on the hate,  abuse,  disrespect and anger that would come their way as a matter of course.

And the word coming out from football bodies is that it is hard to attract umpires to the sport.  In junior footy umpires are doubling up or umpiring numerous games on the weekend.  And that has been the case for decades

Of all the thousands of people who contribute or read this site,  how many are umpires or would do it.  I'm guessing very few.  The proof in the pudding is in the eating.

You could do it because as you said,  umpires can earn in excess of $100k per season

Why not give it a go?  What have you got to lose?

And for anyone out there who is a footy umpire,  come on here and have your say.  Those at the coalface would know more than us.

I used to be a local footy umpire to keep fit when I was playing.... I would usually umpire a under 11s or 12s match before playing my under 18s game. Of course the level of abuse I took at local level is a drop in the ocean compared to what an AFL umpire experiences but what I would say is I copped a lot more abuse from across the fence when I was playing rather than umpiring .... 

My point is if you are an AFL umpire, same as if you are a player you get paid well, have an exciting job and should be capable of dealing with these external pressures as these are well documented before entering the industry... Hence the large pay packet, if you want to umpire for the love of it and want minimal pressure then go to your local under 12s game and enjoy the $50 per game.

And to answer your question why don't I do it now.... I like KFC, beer and posting on demonland too much

 

[Macca 17,032]

5 minutes ago, GCDee said:

I used to be a local footy umpire to keep fit when I was playing.... I would usually umpire a under 11s or 12s match before playing my under 18s game. Of course the level of abuse I took at local level is a drop in the ocean compared to what an AFL umpire experiences but what I would say is I copped a lot more abuse from across the fence when I was playing rather than umpiring .... 

My point is if you are an AFL umpire, same as if you are a player you get paid well, have an exciting job and should be capable of dealing with these external pressures as these are well documented before entering the industry... Hence the large pay packet, if you want to umpire for the love of it and want minimal pressure then go to your local under 12s game and enjoy the $50 per game.

And to answer your question why don't I do it now.... I like KFC, beer and posting on demonland too much

Ha ha!

Appreciate your feedback GCDees

Read my post above for my fix ... but it is highly doubtful whether even 1 person would agree with my fix entirely

Some of it yeah but all of it,  not a chance.  But I'm having a go because I see what everyone sees ... a myriad of mistakes.

Most want to blame the umpires for those myriad of mistakes but I have always thought it was the actual game issue (the rules and how the sport is played)

By the way,  I have been hearing the same level of complaints about umpiring since the late 1960's.  There has never been a year where the umpires haven't been in the firing line.

So if it is every year as I'm suggesting,  the outcomes are similar to the flawed drafting system we have.  A system problem rather than a back-end problem.

[DeezNuts 624]

On 5/18/2019 at 5:25 PM, Return to Glory said:

I've been noting the impressive body of work of Dean Margetts for some time now and I thought he was just terrific last night. With almost cat-like reflexes he saw an opportunity to halt Melbourne's momentum (yes, we weren't helping ourselves) and he did so with bewitching guile. Couldn't blow the whistle fast enough  to give WC the advantage. It wasn't just the free kicks paid to West Coke, it was the missed throws and blocks, and, by the end, an absolute failure to show any impartiality whatsoever. He may as well have put on a WC Guernsey and punched the sky when the final siren sounded.

Is the AFL so tight arsed that it can't, in a National competition, use an umpire who didn't grow up barracking for the team he's officiating (and by officiating I mean kissing on the dock).

Razor Ray may be a [censored] but he's an impartial one. Actually, take that back and leave it at '[censored]'.

 

Simple, check his bank balances over the next few years and follow the money trail... completely corrupt

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,809]

Macca you earlier agreed that “ home town decisions” occur.

It is disgraceful that officials allow themselves to be influenced by the crowd. 

I think eliminating this bias is far more important than all the other measures you suggest.

The fact that umpires are consistently succumbing to this weakness adds to the antipathy of the fans. One can’t help but think of them as weak individuals if they allow their judgment to be influenced by the noise they hear from the crowd.

[Macca 17,032]

1 hour ago, sue said:

All I claim is that it can be improved and it is worth trying to do so.  

I agree but the sport needs to be improved dramatically for the complaints about the umpires to die down to a minimum.  Even in the 'Open' footy of the 70's there were a thousand complaints.  It's that sort of game.

Small improvements won't be making much difference as it's a complete mess right now.  But improvements need to be made,  all the same.  Just because I don't blame the umpires directly doesn't mean I've given up.

The odd bit is that nearly everyone here is on the same page in terms of what we see ... it's the apportioned blame and the fix which are the issues.

As for now,  I'm not blaming the umpires where as others will.

My fix ... post #136

Feel free to critique it or make any comments that you like.  I would appreciate the feedback.

Another question ... does the AFL even know how big the problem is?  I reckon they just look at the $$$$'s.

 

[Macca 17,032]

Just now, Jumping Jack Clennett said:

Macca you earlier agreed that “ home town decisions” occur.

It is disgraceful that officials allow themselves to be influenced by the crowd. 

I think eliminating this bias is far more important than all the other measures you suggest.

The fact that umpires are consistently succumbing to this weakness adds to the antipathy of the fans. One can’t help but think of them as weak individuals if they allow their judgment to be influenced by the noise they hear from the crowd.

Yeah ... home town decisions do occur.  I freely admit that but how do you fix it?

Other professional sports can't and if you think the problem is just confined to the Eagles,  you need to look elsewhere as well.

As previously stated,  the sport needs to be fixed first.  Make the game easier to umpire otherwise the problem remains.

I see what you see ... but I'd rather address the problem from the front-end rather than the back-end. 

How do you reckon you'd go umpiring an AFL game?  My view is that it's an absolute nightmare to umpire.  Incorrect disposal is no longer incorrect disposal.  Throws are allowed. I could go on and on

And the umpires are acting under instruction. 

You should be blaming the league ... that's where the problem lies.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

On 5/19/2019 at 10:06 AM, Macca said:

If the sport can't ever be umpired correctly,  then mistakes are always going to happen.  Therefore the umpires aren't to blame.

...

The examples you gave just highlight my view ... and it's unfixable.  Too many players on the ground with rules that can never be defined.  And it has always been that way.

So because we can never get perfection, we should give up trying to improve.

Try applying that to other fields of human endeavour. We'd still be living in caves.

 

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Why?  Because the game cannot be umpired correctly therefore there are numerous mistakes made.  Therefore the crowd yells and screams at the umpires.  It's not rocket science.

So if you want every decision to be correct,  please explain how that can happen.  Genuine question.  Has to be a feasible answer too. No pie in the sky stuff

Be realistic.

No one has said they want "every decision to be correct." Not even you.

People want fairness and consistency. People can cop a wrong decision here and there ... what they can't cop is when a decision is made (say push in the back), the ball goes down the other end, same thing happens in reverse, no free.

We understand that umpires are human. (That's the rumour anyway.) We're not asking for robotic perfection.

Just fairness and consistency.

To answer your question, a great start would be to ...

1. remove the notion of "interpretation". The paradigm of "interpretation" of rules is all wrong. That the AFL at all levels has bought into this bogus notion is the root of all evil. There is no other sport I can think of where there is "interpretation" of the rules. Nearest I can think of is golf. But even that is not "interpretation." It is more  like "clarification" or "explanation". When you read the rules of golf, you encounter the rule as it is writ, then a bunch of scenarios explaining how to apply it. So that when it's 5PM on a Satdee arvo and a foursome stranded way out on the 15th green has a dispute, they can drag out the rule book and see how to apply the rule in question. And every golfer on every course around the world should be able to make the same determination.

Squash is another one that comes to mind ... the contentious "let" rule causes the most grief. But the rules take great pains to elaborate and explain when and when not to apply the "let" rule. There's no "interpretation" involved. The rule is a bit tricky, but the application of the rule does not change from week to week, season to season. 

 

2. Have all AFL officials from Gil down read the rules and do an umpires' test. OK, not the typing pool. Not the janitor. But most of them, especially the media/public facing ones, should have a sound knowledge of the rules. This particularly applies to people like the tribunal members, the MRP, and directors of umpiring (in particular I am sure Peter "attacking third of the ground" Schwab and Jeff "natural arc" Gieschen had never picked up the rules book at all).

 

3. Go over the rules and remove all the glaring chasm-like gaps. One example: we all know that you can't take too long when taking a free kick. Seven seconds, I think? Otherwise the ump will call "play on". Well ... yes, and no! It's not in the rules at all. Nowhere. Nor is the "30 second countdown clock" when taking a shot. The commentator's nightmare, "this could affect the outcome of a grand final!!!" is right there hidden in plain view. Not grand finals, but other matches HAVE been decided by this "rule" in the dying seconds. It's not even an "interpretation". It's an invention of someone at the AFL and the umps have jumped on board, willingly or not.

The rule book is full of inconsistencies like that.

The umps have an uphill job, trying to apply rules that are poorly written. No, pathetically written. Grappling with the bogus travesty of "interpretation", administered by people who don't know the rules as they are written ... no wonder all umps have to retire at 40 because they have been driven insane. It's a wonder they last that long.

 

There is plenty that can be done to improve the umpiring, and none of it requires attaining perfection.

[Macca 17,032]

44 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

 

In a nutshell the league needs to improve the game so that the umpires have got a chance to umpire the game properly (or as best they can)

My fix is included in post #136.  Go and have a read and critique and comment as you please.  I'd appreciate the feedback

So I haven't given up at all ... I believe that given the myriad of issues that the sport has,  I just refuse to believe the umpires are out to get us or that they hate us.

And to remind you MR ... the thread title reads - 'Umpires hate Melbourne'.  Not do the umpires hate Melbourne but a blanket - 'Umpires hate Melbourne'

A much better title would be ...

"The AFL has a Major Problem with how the Game can be Officiated" or words to that effect.

That would be a more sensible way of addressing the issue. 

I get it ... people like to vent but again,  the problem is a system one not a back-end one.

And back in the day you had to be a 5 goals better team in order to win at Vic Park,  Princes Park or Windy Hill.  Home town bias has always been there.  Not easily fixed,  that one but the very same arguments went on 40 years ago. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Macca

[chook fowler 19,533]

Daisy Thomas got it right - F‘ing  cheats 

[loges 6,767]

Many good points being made here on both sides of the discussion, but I think it's a bit more than just home team bias. I think there is a lot of confirmation bias behind some decisions. That is team x is a top side and expected to win the game so is more likely to get the 50/50 decisions. of course it is worse when some decisions are just plainly incorrect. But it also happens with individual players eg. champion player Gary has been caught with the ball, but better be sure, lets give him a second or two longer to get rid of the ball. It happens all the time.

[Macca 17,032]

On 05/20/2019 at 12:39 AM, DV8 said:

MC's ???

Match committee's at local level.  I got 'removed' on numerous occasions and then a year or 2 later I'd get appointed again!

I put a few noses out of joint ... you have to be that way in order to get things done.  I haven't changed although forums are a completely different beast. 

I prefer a macro view as I believe that if you fix things in a big picture way,  the micro issues are never as pronounced. 

At MFC level,  our concentration should always to be to build and maintain a great list and have top coaching and top admin.  And we haven't had that since the Smith days.  Some good to very good lists but never great.  Our list right now is good and if all our good players were available,  maybe very good.  We are a ways off being great but we live in hope.

If that happens that fortress-like atmosphere at the MCG that you talk about can be a reality.  Home town decisions might then even come our way!  Would we be complaining about having an advantage like that?  Not a chance.

[Macca 17,032]

28 minutes ago, loges said:

But it also happens with individual players eg. champion player Gary has been caught with the ball, but better be sure, lets give him a second or two longer to get rid of the ball. It happens all the time.

Full time umpires might alleviate the issue surrounding the point that you make above but the biggest issue to me is what goes on in a general sense in congested situations.

Incorrect disposal,  throws,  high contact that isn't dangerous,  ducking,  prior opportunity that is questionable etc etc.

It is why I believe the game needs to be opened up ... a modicum amount of congestion is ok but again,  too much congested footy is too hard to officiate.

And the criticism of the umpires has increased a great deal coninciding with the extra congested footy that we've seen of late.  I'd make some major changes to the sport in order to open the game up.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Macca

[DV8 2,271]

49 minutes ago, Macca said:

Match committee's at local level.  I got 'removed' on numerous occasions and then a year or 2 later I'd get appointed again!

I put a few noses out of joint ... you have to be that way in order to get things done.  I haven't changed although forums are a completely different beast. 

I prefer a macro view as I believe that if you fix things in a big picture way,  the micro issues are never as pronounced. 

At MFC level,  our concentration should always to be to build and maintain a great list and have top coaching and top admin.  And we haven't had that since the Smith days.  Some good to very good lists but never great.  Our list right now is good and if all our good players were available,  maybe very good.  We are a ways off being great but we live in hope.

If that happens that fortress-like atmosphere at the MCG that you talk about can be a reality.  Home town decisions might then even come our way!  Would we be complaining about having an advantage like that?  Not a chance.

Yeah, it took me awhile, before I got it.   I was thinking Business abbreviations, not footy... for some reason.

[DV8 2,271]

27 minutes ago, Macca said:

Full time umpires might alleviate the issue surrounding the point that you make above but the biggest issue to me is what goes on in a general sense in congested situations.

Incorrect disposal,  throws,  high contact that isn't dangerous,  ducking,  prior opportunity that is questionable etc etc.

It is why I believe the game needs to be opened up ... a modicum amount of congestion is ok but again,  too much congested footy is too hard to officiate.

And the criticism of the umpires has increased a great deal coninciding with the extra congested footy that we've seen of late.  I'd make some major changes to the sport in order to open the game up.

Never thought of this before...  around local umpires in a smallish home City like Perth.

Now IF the umpires were too fair...  causing the local teams to lose more...  how would those Local umpires get along during their Weekdays ?   I reckon they would be under enormous pressure living in the vicinity of unhappy local footy supporters.

 

Shallow & cheapskate thinking by the AFL.... Or is IT...   on the other Hand...  do the AFL want the local Perth people, to have a strong Umpiring advantage,  over there ?

 

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