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don cordner

Umpires hate Melbourne

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16 minutes ago, dworship said:

There is a reason International Cricket now has a NO local umpire on the field rule.

That principle would be difficult,  in Melbourne games.

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10 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Gee if we are all going to be honest lets admit we have all hated this club at times.

The are the annoying little brother you love that often dissappoints.

I do believe we will win several flags in the next decade but  until then I reserve the right to dump on them.

The simple fact is umpires are prone to be influenced by larger cr o wd support discrepancies. 

While I agree with some of what you say I can find no excuse for the blatant ignoring of a dangerous tackle and the awarding of a free kick for the tackler. Jetta even held Smiths head against the ground at a shocking angle accentuating the dangerous action. This wasn't crowd influence this was either complete incompetence or something completely without integrity.

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Umpires dont hate us.  We simply don’t attract the positive bias that comes from winning flags, being Brownlow medallists, or being back page of the HS.  This puts us at a significant disadvantage - unless the rule breach is clear, their expectation and confirmation bias will work against us, so we dont get 50/50, but more like get 30/70.  When we are also considered ‘bad’ public citizens (May, Bugg, etc), this weighs against us as well.

 

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11 minutes ago, dworship said:

There is a reason International Cricket now has a NO local umpire on the field rule.

Neutral umpires undermines officiating in general ... the real issue is that most sports fans are just bad losers and blame umpires/referees as a matter of course

And many have umpires on the brain ... these people are insane.  Nutjobs.

We need to quit moaning and stop making pathetic excuses.  The umpires aren't the issue and never have been.  They aren't out to get us either ... that is just pure BS.  

We lost the game last night because of our poor kicking for goal.  It was our fault.  Home town decisions are always going to happen in any sport ... and that will never change

What a pointless thread.  You can moan and [censored] all you like but nothing will ever change ... just come to terms with the fact that the sport can't be officiated correctly and that the mistakes made have no bias involved whatsoever. 

The paranoia is actually quite comical. 

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The standard of umpiring this year has been pathetic. Not just in our games, but in every game I watch. Which is why I barely watch any games other than our own. 

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13 minutes ago, Macca said:

Neutral umpires undermines officiating in general ... the real issue is that most sports fans are just bad losers and blame umpires/referees as a matter of course

And many have umpires on the brain ... these people are insane.  Nutjobs.

We need to quit moaning and stop making pathetic excuses.  The umpires aren't the issue and never have been.  They aren't out to get us either ... that is just pure BS.  

We lost the game last night because of our poor kicking for goal.  It was our fault.  Home town decisions are always going to happen in any sport ... and that will never change

What a pointless thread.  You can moan and [censored] all you like but nothing will ever change ... just come to terms with the fact that the sport can't be officiated correctly and that the mistakes made have no bias involved whatsoever. 

The paranoia is actually quite comical. 

Your first sentence staggers me.  While it is a fine theoretical point there is a reason in all sorts of areas of life that  a perceived or potential conflict of interest forces some people to withdraw.  Justice must be done and must be seen to be done.  

  Unfortunately for your argument that "mistakes made have no bias involved whatsoever " the statistics of frees given for and against in WA which someone published here a while ago rather under cut it.  You don't have to believe that umps are in a secret pro-WCE cabal or are being paid by Gil to promote WA.  You can put it down to the influence of the crowd.   For example when the WCE player ran far more than 15 metres on that kick out, if the crowd wasn't so one-eyed, there would have been a roar from the crowd and the ump would have woken up from his little nap.

 

Edited by sue
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2 hours ago, Jaded said:

The standard of umpiring this year has been pathetic. Not just in our games, but in every game I watch. Which is why I barely watch any games other than our own. 

And you say that every season.

Why don't you come to terms with it all ... the sport can't be umpired correctly because it just can't be.

Mistakes are therefore going to happen and there is no bias against our team.

Edited by Macca

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27 minutes ago, Macca said:

Nothing is ever going to change ... I follow at least 20 sports and home town decisions happen in each of those sports.

If you believe that the umpires are out to get us then you must be paranoid. 

You'll never change my mind either as I came to terms with offficiating over 4 decades ago ... time to man-up Sue. 

Quit your moaning

I would if I had been, but I wasn't.    Where did I say I thought the umpires were out to get us?  Try reading what I wrote before you show how tough you are.   Man-up? Crud

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2 hours ago, ProperDee said:

Errrr... it’s “You’re”, “Hawthorn” and “we’re”. 

Guess English grammar isn’t taught in Grade 4 in Panama?  Maybe get mum to help.

 

"We're" all aware "you're" a tool lol

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There have been multiple studies that show that umpires in all sports are affected by home town crowds. Basically they involve experienced refs picking rules infringements with the sound on and the sound off. With the sound on, they pick more "frees" (violations, what have you) in favour of the home crowd. In every study.

The AFL has an "integrity" department. (Legend has it.) Whether that is an actual office with real people staffing it, or if it's a waste paper basket in the corner of Gil's office, if the AFL had real integrity, they would not permit "home town" officials. Caesar's wife and all that. (Cricket no longer permits "home country" umps, and hasn't for many years, for that very reason -- the appearance of it.) They have empirical evidence that home town bias is real, and still do absolutely nothing about it. Manifestly, they don't care.

The AFL competition is a joke wherein the umps do not adjudicate to the rule book. No-one knows what the standard is they do referee too. And the officiating body does not not seem to know either, does not seem to care, gives a free pass for objectively faulty decisions, and charges the players (literally) for the faults of the referees.

It's a joke, corrupt competition that has lost its way in pursuit of ratings and $$$$. If it were not for my foolish and inexplicable devotion to the mighty MFC, I  would pay it the same attention I do to the 2nd tier Czech handball comp, ie, none.

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Do the umpires hate us? Probably not, but I do agree that we tend not to get the rub of the green more often then not. It’s our own fault, Goody doesn’t question the AFL every second week like Clarkson (best coach for a decade) or the Scott brothers. Our mids don’t duck their heads and complain about high contact enough like the Holy Trinity 🙄 Our forwards don’t throw up their arms and exaggerate any contact like Ben Brown.

There is definitely umpire bias though, stats prove that West Coast are the most looked after team at home, by a mile. Noise of affirmation? Gutless umpiring? Cheating? Who knows, and I doubt the AFL will admit anything.

I missed what David King said on Fox footy after the game, from what I’ve heard off people, he definitely thought Melbourne were hard done by. There is no doubt we would’ve won the game if we kicked straight, we shot ourselves in the foot, but the umpires certainly didn’t help.

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I'm glad to see this thread is back on track after all those childish and insulting posts. Why can't we accept that we have different opinions, but that each of us is entitled to that opinion? Play the ball and not the man or woman, folks.

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11 hours ago, Macca said:

 

This is your better post for mine. I tend to agree there is no particular bias against Melbourne other than what comes from being lowly rated in relevance. The last public outcry that the umpiring needs to be changed and was faulty was of course the Anzac game where Essendon were convinced the umpiring cost them the game. Then of course Essendon officials wanted an explanation over the Rampe decision last week "for the good of the game".

The point in your post I don't accept at all is the bit where you suggest we should just "accept" the umpiring of the game is stuffed and move on.

It is definitely a hard game to officiate but the AFL's and their media channels being virtually banned from commentating on umpiring when it so so so influentual on every games outcome, because it is hard to attract umpires to the sport, means there is very few avenues open to actually improve umpiring. 

There is no doubt in my mind the "rub of the green" was against us on Friday night. I'm all for a thread that discusses the umpires poor form. It gives solace to a loss.

 

Edited by george_on_the_outer

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It’s not a matter of the umpires hating us, it’s just that they can’t help but be swayed by the crowds.

Unfortunately , Melbourne almost NEVER have the “ fortress” style atmosphere that Perth, Adelaide, and Geelong have.

When we do have a home game against Perth or Adelaide sides on the MCG, there’s a pathetic crowd, no atmosphere, and no chance to influence the umpires by yelling “ ball” every time the opposition gain possession etc.

I think the AFL are aware of this, and try to educate the umpires not to be affected by the crowd. Unfortunately, that directive was forgotten on Friday night.

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4 hours ago, ProperDee said:

Watching Cats v Dogs. Tuohy just kicked in from FB. Didn’t play on. OOB without being touched. Nobody even near it .....THROW IN! That sums up the competency of umpiring at the moment.

With the new kick in rule the ball doesn't need to be touched before going out of bounds unless of course it is on the full.

A lot of our commentators don't know this rule change and should...they're getting paid to know this stuff.

The umpire was spot on...

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Over 15 years of data clearly confirms a bias out west for the Coasters, who are sitting as the number one free kicked team by a country mile.  Sure someone has to be at the top...but to be a massive 64.3% ahead of their nearest rival the Kangas is a massive difference in anyone's language!

And the argument "it's a home town issue get over it this happens in all other sports"...uh nup not by that differential it doesn't. And besides that can't be the case, with the Dockers sitting a lowly 3rd last!

Something's smelly @West Coast and i smell a rat....or two!

lqakawxd0a211.jpg

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yup, the umpires hate us, i think we are the only team in the afl who gets screwed by the umps on the mcg when its our home game!!!  i loved the Perth game the umps would pay in the back when a melbourne player fell on the side yet not pay melb player when it was there!!  happened more than once, i also loved how track hit up a player in the 50 in the last quarter and the umps called not 15, the list goes on, THE UMPS are Cheating for THE EAGLES

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42 minutes ago, Macca said:

And every supporter group argues in exactly the same way ... woe is me,  the umpires have got it in for us,  victim mentality & persecution complex.

And logic says that all those supporter groups can't all be right. 

But footy fans and logic is a bad mix. 

Otherwise intelligent people lose the plot because they want their team to win and they can't handle losing.  So who do we blame? Umpires ... it has to be their fault hey?

The above is the other side of the argument that most don't want to know about.

We look for closure and blaming the umpires gives us that closure.  But is our team good enough?  That is the real question.

We had our chances 'Macca' and should have put WC away.

...but some of the decisions that went against us were pretty average and hurt us.

Could well have changed the course of the game.

Do the umpires have it in for us? no

Were there some howlers last night? yes

Could the decisions have effected the outcome? yes

The Smith one hurt us, apart from the 12 point turnaround the tackle that forced him from the ground freed up McGoven and he became a real obstacle.

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10 hours ago, deespicable me said:

This is your better post for mine. I tend to agree there is no particular bias against Melbourne other than what comes from being lowly rated in relevance. The last public outcry that the umpiring needs to be changed and was faulty was of course the Anzac game where Essendon were convinced the umpiring cost them the game. Then of course Essendon officials wanted an explanation over the Rampe decision last week "for the good of the game".

The point in your post I don't accept at all is the bit where you suggest we should just "accept" the umpiring of the game is stuffed and move on.

It is definitely a hard game to officiate but the AFL's and their media channels being virtually banned from commentating on umpiring when it so so so influentual on every games outcome, because it is hard to attract umpires to the sport, means there is very few avenues open to actually improve umpiring. 

There is no doubt in my mind the "rub of the green" was against us on Friday night. I'm all for a thread that discusses the umpires poor form. It gives solace to a loss.

 

The chaos of umpiring our game means that obvious frees will be missed.  It's a thing that can't be explained because of the very nature of the chaos that exists

And trying to make sense of chaos is another pointless exercise.  The grey areas are extreme ... imagine trying to explain the rules to someone new to the game? And that explanation would be different for every person explaining the rules.  None of us are experts.

And yet we expect the umpires to get it right when they can't get it right.  Insanity.

It is just an unholy mess and the game is harder to umpire than it ever was.  And I don't feel sorry for umpires either ... it's their choice to do it.  They must know the abuse is coming their way far in advance. 

Why would you do it?

Edited by george_on_the_outer

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6 minutes ago, rjay said:

We had our chances 'Macca' and should have put WC away.

...but some of the decisions that went against us were pretty average and hurt us.

Could well have changed the course of the game.

Do the umpires have it in for us? no

Were there some howlers last night? yes

Could the decisions have effected the outcome? yes

The Smith one hurt us, apart from the 12 point turnaround the tackle that forced him from the ground freed up McGoven and he became a real obstacle.

Well .. the only way to get into the Eagles situation is to exact the same fortress type home field advantage

Realistically,  that isn't going to happen so we just have to have a better team.

All the rest of it is pointless.  Rinse and repeat.

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1 minute ago, Macca said:

The chaos of umpiring our game means that obvious frees will be missed.  It's a thing that can't be explained because of the very nature of the chaos that exists

And trying to make sense of chaos is another pointless exercise.  The grey areas are extreme ... imagine trying to explain the rules to someone new to the game? And that explanation would be different for every person explaining the rules.  None of us are experts.

And yet we expect the umpires to get it right when they can't get it right.  Insanity.

It is just an unholy mess and the game is harder to umpire than it ever was.  And I don't feel sorry for umpires either ... it's their choice to do it.  They must know the abuse is coming their way far in advance. 

Why would you do it?

It's not chaos. There are rules and the players have to play by them. Chaos is something very different.

It is however chaotic.

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Margetts had a clear view of the Smith incident.

Smith had clearly stopped playing & not expecting to be tackled.

The tackler only needed to drag him down.

He chose to pin the arms and slam his head into the ground.

So is it bias, incompetence or very poor eyesight?

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22 minutes ago, Jumping Jack Clennett said:

It’s not a matter of the umpires hating us, it’s just that they can’t help but be swayed by the crowds.

Unfortunately , Melbourne almost NEVER have the “ fortress” style atmosphere that Perth, Adelaide, and Geelong have.

When we do have a home game against Perth or Adelaide sides on the MCG, there’s a pathetic crowd, no atmosphere, and no chance to influence the umpires by yelling “ ball” every time the opposition gain possession etc.

I think the AFL are aware of this, and try to educate the umpires not to be affected by the crowd. Unfortunately, that directive was forgotten on Friday night.

Crowds do influence umpires & referees.  Another staple of sport.

Directives won't work either ... great in theory but in practical terms,  null and void.

I chatted to 3 or 4 Demon mates today and they all knew in advance that we weren't going to get the rub of the green.  It was never expected.

The opposite was expected however thus we needed to put them to the sword when we had our chance

But we blew it unlike it in round 22 last year when we didn't blow it and we won over there.  We took the crowd/umps out of the game in that match and that is how you win against the odds.

Before we point the finger we should look in the mirror.  And if that is not the message from Goodwin,  he's not the man for the job.  But he doesn't strike me as an excuse-maker.

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6 minutes ago, deespicable me said:

It's not chaos. There are rules and the players have to play by them. Chaos is something very different.

It is however chaotic.

The game is impossible to umpire correctly.  The umpires probably never know when to blow the whistle

You should try your hand at it ... good coin for a part time job too.

But get ready for a torrent of abuse ... goes hand in hand. You are never going to be right umpiring our sport (even if you are right)

It is an unholy mess to officiate compared to any other sport

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