On 05/19/2019 at 12:10 AM, FireInTheBelly said:

There were dozens of bad calls in that game, it was borderline match fixing.

Yet you said this earlier in the thread.

7 minutes ago, sue said:

What do you think about that Macca?  Was stopping this in your list of ways to improve umpiring?  If not, it should be added.

I just tried to add the below but it's saying I can't edit the post any longer. Does this work?

• Umpires not allowed to attend training of individual clubs. If the AFL feels strongly enough that communication is required between umpires and clubs, all club captains, or another playing delegate if unavailable, will be invited to meet with the umpiring department at the same meeting.

I understand there does need to be communication between the 2, especially when rule/interpretation changes are involved, however all clubs should be receiving the same message at the same time.

Macca, yes, it's clear he has some form of agenda here, but he's been questioned on what that is and deflected suggesting he purely replies when he's been responded to. Almost every new post gets Macca'd!

31 minutes ago, FireInTheBelly said:

Since you've done your homework on me, go and look at how many games I've commented on regarding umpiring, and compare that to the total number of games over that period.

Your sample size is you alone?  That's what I call super micro

From a bigger picture point of view there are tens of thousands who spew forth their venom about umpires on a weekly basis

And if you don't believe there is hate involved then why this thread called 'Umpires hate Melbourne'? 

Don"t you think the thread title should be changed given your opinion that the umpires aren't hated?  Genuine question.

6 minutes ago, Macca said:

Yet you said this earlier in the thread.

I did and I stand by that.

I'm not happy with 3 particular decisions which changed the course of the game. That's not hate, I'm not threatening to strap an explosive anywhere am I?

1 minute ago, Macca said:

Your sample size is you alone?  That's what I call super micro

From a bigger picture point of view there are tens of thousands who spew forth their venom about umpires on a weekly basis

And if you don't believe there is hate involved then why this thread called 'Umpires hate Melbourne'? 

Don"t you think the thread title should be changed given your opinion that the umpires aren't hated?  Genuine question.

Well, to be fair, you came at me directly didn't you?

To jog your memory, you said to me:

You do it yourself ... go back and have a read on what you've said over time.  Even on this thread IIRC.

3 minutes ago, FireInTheBelly said:

I just tried to add the below but it's saying I can't edit the post any longer. Does this work?

• Umpires not allowed to attend training of individual clubs. If the AFL feels strongly enough that communication is required between umpires and clubs, all club captains, or another playing delegate if unavailable, will be invited to meet with the umpiring department at the same meeting.

I understand there does need to be communication between the 2, especially when rule/interpretation changes are involved, however all clubs should be receiving the same message at the same time.

Macca, yes, it's clear he has some form of agenda here, but he's been questioned on what that is and deflected suggesting he purely replies when he's been responded to. Almost every new post gets Macca'd!

Actually,  if people stopped quoting me I'd have nothing else to add

But,  they keep quoting me and I just reply in kind.  It might look like I'm trying to dominate the thread but I probably would have only posted a few times but for the quoting

Just now, FireInTheBelly said:

Well, to be fair, you came at me directly didn't you?

I was using you as an example ... and there are plenty here who do the same. 

Match fixing hey ... that's one hell of an accusation.  Be careful not to name names. 

Just now, Macca said:

Actually,  if people stopped quoting me I'd have nothing else to add

But,  they keep quoting me and I just reply in kind.  It might look like I'm trying to dominate the thread but I probably would have only posted a few times but for the quoting

You've mentioned this before and it's again, not true. I won't be quoting you again, so hopefully this is the last of it, for me at least.

Nothing personal with any of this by the way, I'd happily buy you a beer at the footy. I'm not a hater. All the best anyway.

19 minutes ago, FireInTheBelly said:

You've mentioned this before and it's again, not true. I won't be quoting you again, so hopefully this is the last of it, for me at least.

Nothing personal with any of this by the way, I'd happily buy you a beer at the footy. I'm not a hater. All the best anyway.

Same here mate ... we'd probably agree on most things. 

It is an odd stance but I'm passionate about not blaming umpires.  And I make no apologies for that stance.   I mentioned to dl earlier that I'm often in match committee mode.  Nearly always in fact

Which means that nearly 100% of the time I'm looking at ways for the team to improve.  Not that I have any influence ... not many of us do. 

So in my opinion,  we lost against the West Coast because we converted poorly.  We should have been 6 or 7 goals in front at 3/4 time and from that position you nearly always win.  We choked in front of goal and it cost us.

But from an overall point of view ...

Taking the umpires out of it ... unless we're great we aren't winning anything.  Above the shoulders pertains to talent.  Without talent,  we could get a dream run with the umps and we would still never win big. 

Of the 12 games played at Optus WC last year WC had Margetts or Dalglish 6 times (and a couple of times both) 

How there is not a conflict of interest I don't know. 

They are effectively being coached by these two week in week out regarding their interpretation of the rules and then get the benefit of playing under their umpiring every 2nd home game. 

And you can't tell me that on having these guys come to training every week that relationships between them and the WC players wouldn't form and that 'banter' regarding an upcoming opponent wouldn't occur i.e. Oliver throws the ball or Selwood ducks, better watch out for that.

Even if it is totally unintentional or subconscious that will have an affect on the umps decisions....especially when you have to back up the next week and go back to training to do more work with them.

Even if Melbourne wanted to do something similar it wouldn't work, Margetts pointed out that there are 32 umpires based in Melbourne. It would be extremely unlikely to get the same ump twice in one season, let alone every second week. Week to week we would get a different interpretation of the rules and the relationship between our players and the umpires wouldn't form, so the benefit of having a specific umpire officiate our games would have no positive effect.

They should not be allowed to umpire West Coast games.

We must have really annoyed someone at the AFL this year, not only do we get to play WC at Optus (again) but we get Margetts and Dalglish. Hatchet job.

Hey if any Dee's officials are reading this, if we have to play in Perth next year can we at least request that these two umps have nothing to do with it.

2 hours ago, wrecka45 said:

Margetts on the radio in Perth.

Advised that he, the controlling umpire, thought it was a dangerous tackle, but a non controlling umpire said in his ear piece said holding the ball so he paid that instead. YOU ARE THE CONTROLLING UMPIRE. Advised that he saw smiths arms pinned, saw him land him on his head in a dangerous position, thought Jetta shouldn't have made the tackle action and yet still paid holding the ball. Joke.

Also states that he or Dalglish works with West Coast once a week! WC are training to how those two guys interpret during the week and then getting those two umpiring almost every home game.....is there any surprise that WC benefit from his and Dalglish decisions on a weekly basis??

He made the point that requesting umpires at training was club driven and that "some clubs" do it and some don't. Given he is based in Perth it would infer that Freo don't do it. If you talk to Fremantle supporters in Perth they would advise that those two umps rarely give freo the same benefit that WC get 

This is no surprise, heh? The last sentence is interesting. What are they going to do when Bailey Fritsch catches up with Mumford?

Sorry regarding the weird text sizing, sending off my phone 

1 minute ago, wrecka45 said:

Even if it is totally unintentional or subconscious that will have an affect on the umps decisions....especially when you have to back up the next week and go back to training to do more work with them.

Therein lies the credibility.

1 hour ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Therein lies the credibility.

Talk about bringing the game into disrepute.

In the USA supporters could probably bring a class action against the AFL for these cozy arrangements. 

If you think you're running a sporting competition, then umpire conflicts of interest, an MRP that favours star players, badly written rules, and woeful application of the rules are things that are key to your interests and you would be burning to get on top of them.

But if you think you're running a sport-based theme park, or a sport-themed reality TV show where ratings and $$$$ are how you keep score, then all of the above are small potatoes and simply part of the drama.

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them" -- Mark Twain, probably, or Benjamin Disraeli. (Or Wilde.)

1 hour ago, Mazer Rackham said:

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them" -- Mark Twain, probably, or Benjamin Disraeli. (Or Wilde.)

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"

Mark Twain

I am a numbers person, I understand stats can be distorted but I would love the afl to present the following:

Average time tackled before decision

HTB vs ball up against ‘stars’

team stats for who receives decisions from non acting umpire 

distance umpire stands from contents in each teams f50

Ave volume in db of calls for each team

Ave distance of 50m penalties for teams

Ave time opposition allowed before ‘move it on’ / ‘play on’ called

ave time and distance before play on called when player enters field from ootf

Number of marks paid where kicks were less than 15m

Clearances of bounces that land out side of centre circle

I highly doubt there is a directive to cheat against us.  But I would love to see the above stats, as only then we can really know if we are being disadvantaged.  

And aside from above I don’t get why the boundary umpires don’t make on field decisions so the umpires can have a 360 degree view? I know they are beginners now, but maybe for AFL games they should be experienced umpires  

 

 

2 hours ago, Macca said:

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"

Mark Twain

Twain was a Fremantle supporter. What would he know?

54 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Twain was a Fremantle supporter. What would he know?

Who ?  Shania ?

51 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Twain was a Fremantle supporter. What would he know?

Twain actually came to Australia on a talking tour in the 1890's ... he'd hit a financial crisis and needed the dosh.  Visited Horsham,  Bendigo,  Ballarat,  Wagga,  Tassie and all sorts.  Went to the Melbourne Cup etc etc.  Didn't get as far as Freo but who could blame him.

The book (Following the Equator) is out in the public domain so you and others can listen to the book here ... 'Following the Equator: A Journey Around the World'

The Australian Stuff is from Chapter 9 onwards but I recommend listening in from the start.

 

19 hours ago, wrecka45 said:

Margetts on the radio in Perth.

Advised that he, the controlling umpire, thought it was a dangerous tackle, but a non controlling umpire said in his ear piece said holding the ball so he paid that instead. YOU ARE THE CONTROLLING UMPIRE. Advised that he saw smiths arms pinned, saw him land him on his head in a dangerous position, thought Jetta shouldn't have made the tackle action and yet still paid holding the ball. Joke.

Also states that he or Dalglish works with West Coast once a week! WC are training to how those two guys interpret during the week and then getting those two umpiring almost every home game.....is there any surprise that WC benefit from his and Dalglish decisions on a weekly basis??

He made the point that requesting umpires at training was club driven and that "some clubs" do it and some don't. Given he is based in Perth it would infer that Freo don't do it. If you talk to Fremantle supporters in Perth they would advise that those two umps rarely give freo the same benefit that WC get 

Once a week for how long i wonder wrecka?  Whatever they are doing together it's working a treat.

The Eagles never having a negative differential in the last 15 years from 2003.  Noting that no other club in that decade and a half has had a postive differential every year like the Coasters.  That's 64% more frees than any other club in that time and a massive 1000% +  more than us.

Amazing result.  Margetts started umpiring in 2002.  Any chance we could get him on board before he retires?  

Edited May 22, 20196 yr by Rusty Nails

If any other organization had those figures and did nothing about it would be subject to a royal commission. (well, perhaps not for football unless there was money involved. Wait... - there is.

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

Once a week for how long i wonder wrecka?  Whatever they are doing together it's working a treat.

The Eagles never having a negative differential in the last 15 years from 2003.  Noting that no other club in that decade and a half has had a postive differential every year like the Coasters.  That's 64% more frees than any other club in that time and a massive 1000% +  more than us.

Amazing result.  Margetts started umpiring in 2002.  Any chance we could get him on board before he retires?  

Whats Sydney done to the umpiring fraternity?

Its Unbelievable. Dees have nothing to complain about in comparison.

18 minutes ago, Kent said:

Whats Sydney done to the umpiring fraternity?

Its Unbelievable. Dees have nothing to complain about in comparison.

Barry Hall....

1 hour ago, Kent said:

Whats Sydney done to the umpiring fraternity?

Its Unbelievable. Dees have nothing to complain about in comparison.

Was thinking the same Kent.  In particular 2005, 6 & 7 are off the scale.  Directly related to the Roos era and lock down defensive side of his style maybe?  Just horrid but still managed to snag one in 2005.  

Edited May 23, 20196 yr by Rusty Nails