On 03/11/2018 at 01:31, hemingway said:

unfortunately, the AFL and CA are killing the goose.

just talking with my son about how much we used to look forward to the cricket and footy season having had a complete break from the other. one returned the next season feeling eager and fresh and enthusiastic. 

however, with extending seasons and game played, spectators are losing interest due to saturation of coverage. 

its the way it is and its not going to change other than provide further fodder for broadcasting and the media. 

anyway its all been said before. 

definitely agree.

The cricket season has just gone crazy. As I understand it the interstate one day comp has been run and won already. The series against Pakistan was so under the radar that it may as well have been underwater. South Africa are here for some one dayers but because of the new TV deal we won't see any of them on FTA.

O well life goes on. I shall continue planning my holiday to Bangladesh... proving to be a slight challenge so far.

  On 02/11/2018 at 07:06, Mazer Rackham said:

The what??? How long's that been going on?

Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

 

 

But what's this ...?

Yes, it's EFC being talked about but the point stays the same. There's a lot more to sport and a sporting competition than dollars and cents.

Remember all those blokes over the years who marched into footy clubs and sternly said "we're going to run this like a business! No room for sentiment and other bulls**t here!" Ranald Mcdonald anyone? Rod Butterss? Just two that spring to mind.

And they quickly found, hey ... it's not like a menswear wholesaler. It's not like a joinery shop. It's not just dollars and cents ... there's emotion ... hope ... blood sweat tears ... and something else intangible.

Footy clubs are not just businesses. They are more like tribal emblems. They make up people's very identities. Yes, they need money to exist and therefore [censored] an eye in the direction of revenue. But they do not exist simply to make profits.

The AFL is much much bigger than any club has has much more inertia built in to withstand the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.  But even they may find that a comp geared exclusively toward the balance sheet is at risk of killing the goose that laid the golden egg. By extension, a comp that plays favourites too much, in service of the balance sheet, may in the long run be doing itself a disservice.

The AFL has to treat every club (even the EFC) as a talisman to be cared for and not just an entry in the revenue column. Balancing the books for a sporting comp should mean much more than just red or black ink.

Mazer, I want to agree with you but I'm not quite sure whether I should. I can't quite find the link between what you've said and my post that you copied. Maybe I'm in public holiday mode, but what exactly was your point about my post? (But, nevertheless, kudos for the red and black ink pun).

  On 05/11/2018 at 00:05, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Mazer, I want to agree with you but I'm not quite sure whether I should. I can't quite find the link between what you've said and my post that you copied. Maybe I'm in public holiday mode, but what exactly was your point about my post? (But, nevertheless, kudos for the red and black ink pun).

No direct link. I was making a point (to Smokey from memory?) that sporting comps are more than just prosaic dollars-and-cents entities. Your post was timely in that it was making the point (if I read it correctly) that there's a certain amount of soul in being in a sporting comp, and following a sporting comp. So in my world, it fit in with what I was trying to say.

Another way of putting it: I was not really replying to you but was more using your post as supporting evidence.

 

  On 05/11/2018 at 00:05, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Mazer, I want to agree with you

When in doubt, agree with me. It brings peace, inner calm, mindfulness and good karma.

  On 02/11/2018 at 07:06, Mazer Rackham said:

The what??? How long's that been going on?

Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

Your passive-aggressiveness and pompous attitude toward this discussion has been duly noted. 

You can bang on about how the AFL as a body is more than just a business till the cows come home, but in the end it is a business with the objective of making profits as any other. There are a number of examples I can think of off the top of my head that support this; 

- Expansion teams in Sydney and Gold Coast before Tasmania 
- The AFL neglecting to reduce the number of home and away games to better balance the competition at the expense of revenue

- AFLX 

- The fact the AFL has an ABN (97 489 912 318) and reports yearly profit/loss statements 

I'm simply making the observation that the AFL conducts itself like any other private business and the yearly fixtures reflect that in that they maximize revenue. Feel free to keep playing the man if you must. 

A team of business analysts probably do the draw each year, not a group of ex hall of fame players with the intent of preserving the sanctity of footy. 

Edited November 5, 20186 yr by Smokey

  On 05/11/2018 at 03:17, Smokey said:

Your passive-aggressiveness and pompous attitude toward this discussion has been duly noted. 

You can bang on about how the AFL as a body is more than just a business till the cows come home, but in the end it is a business with the objective of making profits as any other. There are a number of examples I can think of off the top of my head that support this; 

- Expansion teams in Sydney and Gold Coast before Tasmania 
- The AFL neglecting to reduce the number of home and away games to better balance the competition at the expense of revenue

- AFLX 

- The fact the AFL has an ABN (97 489 912 318) and reports yearly profit/loss statements 

I'm simply making the observation that the AFL conducts itself like any other private business and the yearly fixtures reflect that in that they maximize revenue. Feel free to keep playing the man if you must. 

A team of business analysts probably do the draw each year, not a group of ex hall of fame players with the intent of preserving the sanctity of footy. 

next you'll be telling us the catholic church is just a business, smokey ?

Why are you wasting your breath on the Cheats. Move on.

  On 05/11/2018 at 04:44, daisycutter said:

next you'll be telling us the catholic church is just a business, smokey ?

Annoyingly, a tax exempt business with one of the largest property portfolios in Australia.

  On 05/11/2018 at 04:44, daisycutter said:

next you'll be telling us the catholic church is just a business, smokey ?

AFL pay tax I would assume 

  On 05/11/2018 at 09:05, Smokey said:

AFL pay tax I would assume 

Aren’t they exempt as a Sports Organisation?

  On 05/11/2018 at 10:09, Redleg said:

Aren’t they exempt as a Sports Organisation?

they're technically a 'not-for-profit'

  On 05/11/2018 at 04:44, daisycutter said:

next you'll be telling us the catholic church is just a business, smokey ?

They are at the forefront of candle consumption and with the rise in electricity prices they'll surely be heavy investors !

  On 05/11/2018 at 03:17, Smokey said:

Your passive-aggressiveness and pompous attitude toward this discussion has been duly noted.

Sorry to have ruined your week. Hope you didn't lose any sleep. From the sounds of things, you did.

This is a very upsetting counter attack. "Passive aggressive?" I didn't think it was that passive. And "pompous"? Well at least someone gets me.

  On 05/11/2018 at 03:17, Smokey said:

You can bang on about how the AFL as a body is more than just a business till the cows come home, but in the end it is a business with the objective of making profits as any other. There are a number of examples I can think of off the top of my head that support this;

Where has anyone said that they don't or shouldn't do these things?

The whole point of the griping every year, from supporters of all clubs, is that the AFL is sacrificing the soul of the competition while making money. It's that extra layer of playing favourites and doing their usual arbitrary tweaking for barely justifiable reasons that causes the pain.

 

  On 05/11/2018 at 03:17, Smokey said:

A team of business analysts probably do the draw each year, not a group of ex hall of fame players with the intent of preserving the sanctity of footy. 

More home truths revealed to the unwashed. Thanks again for the profound insight.

  On 05/11/2018 at 22:18, Mazer Rackham said:

Sorry to have ruined your week. Hope you didn't lose any sleep. From the sounds of things, you did.

This is a very upsetting counter attack. "Passive aggressive?" I didn't think it was that passive. And "pompous"? Well at least someone gets me.

Where has anyone said that they don't or shouldn't do these things?

The whole point of the griping every year, from supporters of all clubs, is that the AFL is sacrificing the soul of the competition while making money. It's that extra layer of playing favourites and doing their usual arbitrary tweaking for barely justifiable reasons that causes the pain.

 

More home truths revealed to the unwashed. Thanks again for the profound insight.

No sleep lost, just another name added to the list of w4nkers on DL who apparently find comfort in talking down to complete strangers on the internet who are sharing an opinion. Well done big man!
 

 

  On 02/11/2018 at 07:06, Mazer Rackham said:

The what??? How long's that been going on?

Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

 

 

But what's this ...?

Yes, it's EFC being talked about but the point stays the same. There's a lot more to sport and a sporting competition than dollars and cents.

Remember all those blokes over the years who marched into footy clubs and sternly said "we're going to run this like a business! No room for sentiment and other bulls**t here!" Ranald Mcdonald anyone? Rod Butterss? Just two that spring to mind.

And they quickly found, hey ... it's not like a menswear wholesaler. It's not like a joinery shop. It's not just dollars and cents ... there's emotion ... hope ... blood sweat tears ... and something else intangible.

Footy clubs are not just businesses. They are more like tribal emblems. They make up people's very identities. Yes, they need money to exist and therefore [censored] an eye in the direction of revenue. But they do not exist simply to make profits.

The AFL is much much bigger than any club has has much more inertia built in to withstand the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.  But even they may find that a comp geared exclusively toward the balance sheet is at risk of killing the goose that laid the golden egg. By extension, a comp that plays favourites too much, in service of the balance sheet, may in the long run be doing itself a disservice.

The AFL has to treat every club (even the EFC) as a talisman to be cared for and not just an entry in the revenue column. Balancing the books for a sporting comp should mean much more than just red or black ink.

Yes this whole feeling was brought home to me in my sons (all five) reactions to my off handed way of saying that "there was always next year". or "another year of not getting to the Big Match.  There was a real passion for the Club, Players and History there that i didn't know about. 

  On 05/11/2018 at 03:17, Smokey said:

Your passive-aggressiveness and pompous attitude toward this discussion has been duly noted. 

You can bang on about how the AFL as a body is more than just a business till the cows come home, but in the end it is a business with the objective of making profits as any other. There are a number of examples I can think of off the top of my head that support this; 

- Expansion teams in Sydney and Gold Coast before Tasmania 
- The AFL neglecting to reduce the number of home and away games to better balance the competition at the expense of revenue

- AFLX 

- The fact the AFL has an ABN (97 489 912 318) and reports yearly profit/loss statements 

I'm simply making the observation that the AFL conducts itself like any other private business and the yearly fixtures reflect that in that they maximize revenue. Feel free to keep playing the man if you must. 

A team of business analysts probably do the draw each year, not a group of ex hall of fame players with the intent of preserving the sanctity of footy. 

The AFL is a governing body of a sport. It’s objective must be to do whatever is in the best long term interests of maintaining the health of the sport. Sustainable profit is a part of that, but it’s not all of it. I’d go as far to say if the AFL’s profit margin grows too large, it’s indicative that they are underspending on the game. Pointing to the fact that they have an ABN and report profit and loss is just silly - they’re an organisation with an enormous turnover; this level of governance is required by law.

To say the AFL’s objective is profit is a bit like saying the federal government’s primary objective is to run a huge surplus every budget. It’s clearly not.

Economic rationalism marches on unabated. Will probably outlast religion such that it is and significantly eat into population.....what a story..........

  On 06/11/2018 at 01:36, Nasher said:

The AFL is a governing body of a sport. It’s objective must be to do whatever is in the best long term interests of maintaining the health of the sport. Sustainable profit is a part of that, but it’s not all of it. I’d go as far to say if the AFL’s profit margin grows too large, it’s indicative that they are underspending on the game. Pointing to the fact that they have an ABN and report profit and loss is just silly - they’re an organisation with an enormous turnover; this level of governance is required by law.

To say the AFL’s objective is profit is a bit like saying the federal government’s primary objective is to run a huge surplus every budget. It’s clearly not.

I see what you mean. But my point still stands - you can't invest profits you don't make back into the game, therefore profit must be at the forefront of thinking to enable reinvesting back into the  game. My view on this indirectly goes hand in hand with others here, its just a case of needing to make the money before it's spent on improving and maintaining the game.