Caro digs up old wounds of Camp Fiasco on eve of season.

[Demon Dynasty 15,970]

5 hours ago, TGR said:

Thank god for Caro.

 

As if I'm going to get somewhere near the truth from Robbo, or back-slappers that post on forums.

This camp fiasco is more than a passing pre-season story.  It will define our year.  An average/poor year in the past was invariably blamed on luck; psychology; curses etc....and any other convenient get-out that a simpleton can muster.

There will only be one reason we fail this year.  The camp fiasco primarily, an also the underlying issues (no medical input into boot camp 1; communication between U24's (bar Viney) and the 'leadership'/coaching group; the willingness to undermine Goodwin at the expense of getting a cuddle from the PA) underpinning the fallout.

 

The camp fiasco is an indictment on most at the club.  Its the urine infested mattress that we [censored] in, and we will have to sleep in.  Don't shoot the messenger you bozos.

Sorry but in the 5 decades I've been watching It's usually injuries that define our year TGR.  They are footballers not soldiers

[TGR 1,367]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

Leigh Matthews is the greatest coach in Australian sport followed by Al Clarkson, as I said my opinion, Bellamy has had nothing to coach against and coaches a negative game

Don't know if Lethal could have pulled off:

- What Blight did in Adelaide in 97/98 (granted that they were lucky to win in 98 after we beat them easily in 98 final series)

- What Bevo did in 2016 especially

- Hardwick in 2017?

- Malthouse in 1985

- Wallet in 1997/98

- Roos in 2005 & 2006

 

In my book, the best coach gets maximum and more out of his list.

Matthews was 5hite tactically, with little innovation.  He also coached without any sense of sustainability with one eye to the future.  What Roos did with Sydney, against the Eagles who were blessed with speed, ice, and talent; and to leave a dynasty after that, was extremely special. 

 

A guy that drives a McLaren,against a guy that drives a 120B?  The McLaren might finish first, but I'm dipping my lid to the guy driving the 120b, that gets beaten by a length.

[TGR 1,367]

5 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Sorry but in the 5 decades I've been watching It's usually injuries that define our year TGR.  They are footballers not soldiers

Bevo's dogs had a few injuries in 2016, I recollect.

 

As for soldiers?  This is a brutal game. 

How many times has Clarko taken the Hawks to Kokoda?  I don't think he refers to them as footballers on these (ad)ventures.  Don't think they have ever been a holiday.  Clarko refers to them as soldiers more than we know.  Started in his first month there.

 

The fact that we didn't have the stomach for a challenge that was overcome by other clubs/entities, is an indictment on the club as a whole.  The fact that the youglings didn't have the guts to speak to the 'leadership' group and/or coaching staff is incomprehensible.  I am not blaming the younglings here actually.  Just speaks volumes in terms of trust, communication, loyalty....and the list goes on.  This is unprecedented.

 

 

 

 

 

[Demon Dynasty 15,970]

2 minutes ago, TGR said:

Bevo's dogs had a few injuries in 2016, I recollect.

 

As for soldiers?  This is a brutal game. 

How many times has Clarko taken the Hawks to Kokoda?  I don't think he refers to them as footballers on these (ad)ventures.  Don't think they have ever been a holiday.  Clarko refers to them as soldiers more than we know.  Started in his first month there.

 

The fact that we didn't have the stomach for a challenge that was overcome by other clubs/entities, is an indictment on the club as a whole.  The fact that the youglings didn't have the guts to speak to the 'leadership' group and/or coaching staff is incomprehensible.  I am not blaming the younglings here actually.  Just speaks volumes in terms of trust, communication, loyalty....and the list goes on.  This is unprecedented.

 

 

 

 

 

My understanding is we suffered a number of injuries pre season from that camp last year that impacted on early season results/form.  The players were more than happy to do a camp....just not that one.

 As long as they're brought up to elite AFL match fitness levels i couldn't give a rats whether they went or not.  That's what Misson is being paid a handsome sum for.  They failed to run out a number of matches and went missing in quarters last year so the camp didn't work then and it wouldnt have been any better had they done it again this time.

I would rather they spend the time working on forward 50 entries, set plays, goal kicking and forward pressure work etc.

[Pates 9,537]

Actually felt like quite a balanced article. She also makes the point of on field results will dictate whether this continues to be a story. I was ultimately disappointed that this happened and for the reasons that the players felt like it was too over the top, I wonder whether a lot of them knew that the Storm had (successfully) done it for so long? It did for me put forward questions of mental strength amongst the playing group.

Jones' comments were very diplomatic, placing equal blame for how it happened on both sides. If anything positive comes from this it should be that the players feel a lot more comfortable about approaching the FD if they have concerns.

And side question: did someone really suggest the Goodwin offered his resignation? That sounds like the biggest load of crap ever!

[Willmoy1947 3,814]

You don't write an article of pervasive softness on a Team that hasn't got into Finals for many years and expect to get away with it a week before their biggest campaign begins. Unless there is an agenda,

Notice none of her compatriots wrote something on her beloved team, about the incorrect usage of obscure implements before the beginning of last season. Totally unnecessary and boring being nice, and strangely weird and resentful otherwise.

[Satyriconhome 10,010]

2 hours ago, Pates said:

makes the point of on field results will dictate whether this continues to be a story

She will dictate whether it will continue to be a story   everything is driven by the media these days    

[layzie 29,770]

Done and dusted now. Hopefully we can take a lot out of the experience and build some trust between FD and playing group. In the meantime we got a season to prepare for.

[pitmaster 3,109]

On 3/17/2018 at 2:52 AM, P-man said:

Just try to imagine the dribble Robbo would’ve written if given the opportunity.

You mean drivel but I take your point.

 

Drivel: nonsense, claptrap, bladerdash, twaddle etc

[Sir Why You Little 34,936]

10 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

You mean drivel but I take your point.

 

Drivel: nonsense, claptrap, bladerdash, twaddle etc

Slobbos normal writing style...

[P-man 13,277]

1 hour ago, pitmaster said:

You mean drivel but I take your point.

 

Drivel: nonsense, claptrap, bladerdash, twaddle etc

No, I meant dribble. As in the stuff that rolls off his chin and onto the page.

[Demons1858 1,663]

The only new detail is the suggestion that 14 players complained. The rest is nothing we didnt already know or would assume. Credit to Caro for the smart way she writes even with little new facts

Even so, the camp was a stupid idea to begin with

[DV8 2,271]

21 hours ago, TGR said:

Thank god for Caro.

 

As if I'm going to get somewhere near the truth from Robbo, or back-slappers that post on forums.

This camp fiasco is more than a passing pre-season story.  It will define our year.  An average/poor year in the past was invariably blamed on luck; psychology; curses etc....and any other convenient get-out that a simpleton can muster.

There will only be one reason we fail this year.  The camp fiasco primarily, an also the underlying issues (no medical input into boot camp 1; communication between U24's (bar Viney) and the 'leadership'/coaching group; the willingness to undermine Goodwin at the expense of getting a cuddle from the PA) underpinning the fallout.

 

The camp fiasco is an indictment on most at the club.  Its the urine infested mattress that we [censored] in, and we will have to sleep in.  Don't shoot the messenger you bozos.

 

17 hours ago, 1964nowMORE said:

Article is well written and a bit close to home so as fans we get defensive. This has the potential to drag on and be a downer on our year, it won't if we win early, set up a finals spot and gofrom there.

I had the displeasure of lisetening to a few local footy club friends last week who had a lot of inside word on this one, it was hard to defend given what they shared. I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall when Bellamy and Goodwin talked after it blew up and was cancelled, I head that conversation was one for the ages and defining in Bellamys view of where to next.

bellamy is perhaps the greatest coach in australian sport in the past twenty years, if we can learn anything from him we should. Say what you like about the NRL or Storm, they are simply amazing team. Every single year I head to Storm games knowing we will likely win....again.

as we head into the Cats game I'm keen to win and move past this as a relevant topic, there is no positives in this coming up again and again.

I hope 'that old tail' is not still furiously wagging.   If it is, it needs to be docked off.

[Demon trucker 1,779]

The stupid thing is we did this camp last year and we lost games we should of won, the team is not mentally weak at all, last year they were mentally strong, when we almost had our entire midfield out against Carlton that was a very mentally  strong win, many teams lose games they should have won, GWs lost to Carlton, it happens to everyone.

[sue 8,477]

13 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

The only new detail is the suggestion that 14 players complained. The rest is nothing we didnt already know or would assume. Credit to Caro for the smart way she writes even with little new facts

Even so, the camp was a stupid idea to begin with

I'm pretty sure 14 was mentioned early on.

[DV8 2,271]

15 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

My understanding is we suffered a number of injuries pre season from that camp last year that impacted on early season results/form.  The players were more than happy to do a camp....just not that one.

 As long as they're brought up to elite AFL match fitness levels i couldn't give a rats whether they went or not.  That's what Misson is being paid a handsome sum for.  They failed to run out a number of matches and went missing in quarters last year so the camp didn't work then and it wouldnt have been any better had they done it again this time.

I would rather they spend the time working on forward 50 entries, set plays, goal kicking and forward pressure work etc.

In any AFL campaign, Expect injuries; all clubs will get them in Pre and Main seasons.

If your not copping injuries, your not playing hard enough. Its part and parcel of what you get in physical contact sport.

Trying to avoid injuries is an easy way to exit the competition early.

Injuries aren't our downfall, lack of courage is one of the main issues.  'Playing Safe', instead of taking the game on and backing ourselves against the best of them, is the only way forward.

 

Don't worry about umpires, of knocks, bruises, or even broken bones.  They will occur, sometimes, or even often.  But its all part of an AFL season and we cannot waste our focus on these negatives.

We cannot take our eyes off the ball and our goals..

[DV8 2,271]

15 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

The stupid thing is we did this camp last year and we lost games we should of won, the team is not mentally weak at all, last year they were mentally strong, when we almost had our entire midfield out against Carlton that was a very mentally  strong win, many teams lose games they should have won, GWs lost to Carlton, it happens to everyone.

We're not mentally strong collectively, in any comparison with the mean AFL average.

We lost games by points, we lost games & momentum when we played injured players who should have been rested longer, & some went on holidays mid season up north to overcome an injury. came back no better.

softness pervades the club.

If we were mentally strong we would have won more of the close games & we would have allowed players enough time before coming back in, thus trusting our list players to do the job, whilst injured players recovered.

 

Becoming mentally tougher is an ongoing process, that needs refreshing often. year by year.  You don't acquire that by refusing to go on a time trial, or refusing to do some iron man type camp.

 

We've got a long way to go before we can goo ALL the way.

.

Edited March 18, 2018 by DV8

[Demon Dynasty 15,970]

34 minutes ago, DV8 said:

In any AFL campaign, Expect injuries; all clubs will get them in Pre and Main seasons.

If your not copping injuries, your not playing hard enough. Its part and parcel of what you get in physical contact sport.

Trying to avoid injuries is an easy way to exit the competition early.

Injuries aren't our downfall, lack of courage is one of the main issues.  'Playing Safe', instead of taking the game on and backing ourselves against the best of them, is the only way forward.

 

Don't worry about umpires, of knocks, bruises, or even broken bones.  They will occur, sometimes, or even often.  But its all part of an AFL season and we cannot waste our focus on these negatives.

We cannot take our eyes off the ball and our goals..

I was not saying we should drop our effort / output in anyway during the season or pre-season training DV.  I was pointing out the merits of whether that particular camp is the one we should be investing in given the injuries apparently suffered during mostly non-football related drills during its completion last year (according to reports/here say).

And it wasn't just the injuries.  Many players complained that they felt "leg weary / and heavy in the legs" afterwards, leading in to the start of the season proper after that camp.  It wasn't the amount of work they were complaining about it was what the drills did to them leg wise and their inability to cover ground / spread / run both ways etc that had them concerned about going again.  So Caro (and anyone else potting the boys for shying away from a hard work ethic etc etc) can go smoke a pipe!

[DV8 2,271]

36 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

I was not saying we should drop our effort / output in anyway during the season or pre-season training DV.  I was pointing out the merits of whether that particular camp is the one we should be investing in given the injuries apparently suffered during mostly non-football related drills during its completion last year (according to reports/here say).

And it wasn't just the injuries.  Many players complained that they felt "leg weary / and heavy in the legs" afterwards, leading in to the start of the season proper after that camp.  It wasn't the amount of work they were complaining about it was what the drills did to them leg wise and their inability to cover ground / spread / run both ways etc that had them concerned about going again.  So Caro (and anyone else potting the boys for shying away from a hard work ethic etc etc) can go smoke a pipe!

Yes. But that camp isn't about fitness.

 

 

Its all about mental toughness, to show the club which players have more mental toughness to withstand anything thrown at them.

This is how Bellamy works out which of his players he can rely on to get the job done, whilst the rest, he then knows more about, and how to get the right training for them to improve.

 

Its also about building 'a comraderie' of not letting one another down under intense pressure.  Its these things that Melbourne traditionally are poorest at.

And so its no wonder that some of the players turned up their noses. That's its too hard. They don't like it. 

Its not about the paycheck, its not about the players,  its about this club, its about winning, its about Premierships.

The players are only the servants.  They should get perspective that they are not the game itself.

 

Guess what, they don't hand over Premiership Cups on a silver platter, to my knowledge.

.

Edited March 18, 2018 by DV8

[sue 8,477]

32 minutes ago, DV8 said:

Yes. But that camp isn't about fitness.

....

But it shouldn't destroy fitness built up in the preceding months either.   If  there is a camp program which can fix the mental things you mention without degrading fitness I'd be all for it.  But is there?

[Demon Dynasty 15,970]

27 minutes ago, DV8 said:

Yes. But that camp isn't about fitness.

 

 

Its all about mental toughness, to show the club which players have more mental toughness to withstand anything thrown at them.

This is how Bellamy works out which of his players he can rely on to get the job done, whilst the rest, he then knows more about, and how to get the right training for them to improve.

 

Its also about building 'a comraderie' of not letting one another down under intense pressure.  Its these things that Melbourne traditionally are poorest at.

And so its no wonder that some of the players turned up their noses. That's its too hard. They don't like it. 

Its not about the paycheck, its not about the players,  its about this club, its about winning, its about Premierships.

The players are only the servants.  They should get perspective that they are not the game itself.

 

Guess what, they don't hand over Premiership Cups on a silver platter, to my knowledge.

.

Mental toughness comes in many forms.  Again, a camp that impacts the ability of a team to cover ground, in a game where running and covering ground is crucial, surely wouldn't be high on any AFL team's agenda (or any sport that involves a signifant amount of two way running).  Plenty of other camps and team building getaways that can do that without the impact on legs.  Pretty sure the playing group isn't adverse to tough effort and team work in pre-season training or other pre-season camps/team toughness building (boot style).

They just don't like what last year's camp did to their legs pre-season (mostly), is what I heard.  Many complained of being just too heavy down low after the camp with not enough running capacity.  Venturing more towards a NRL type preferred outcome.  Bellamy & Co may well benefit from that style of camp!  Horses for courses DV.

[Demon trucker 1,779]

2 hours ago, DV8 said:

We're not mentally strong collectively, in any comparison with the mean AFL average.

We lost games by points, we lost games & momentum when we played injured players who should have been rested longer, & some went on holidays mid season up north to overcome an injury. came back no better.

softness pervades the club.

If we were mentally strong we would have won more of the close games & we would have allowed players enough time before coming back in, thus trusting our list players to do the job, whilst injured players recovered.

 

Becoming mentally tougher is an ongoing process, that needs refreshing often. year by year.  You don't acquire that by refusing to go on a time trial, or refusing to do some iron man type camp.

 

We've got a long way to go before we can goo ALL the way.

.

Richmond lost about 4 games by less then a goal, last year the team was not ready, I believe we are ready, but doing this camp has no bearing on our mental strength, if it had we would have played finals,  because we went to that camp last year, many games we could have lost by more, but we never gave up, the trick is not letting the other team get to big of a lead or starting games better.

[DV8 2,271]

2 hours ago, sue said:

But it shouldn't destroy fitness built up in the preceding months either.   If  there is a camp program which can fix the mental things you mention without degrading fitness I'd be all for it.  But is there?

It won't.   A cracked collar bone doesn't leave a player unable to maintain leg fitness & condition, nor aerobically. After a few days the player can continue to run.

If we're concerned about injuries at the expence of being hardened tough competitive hombre's, then we shouldn't tackle at training, we shouldn't go for high marks at training, we shouldn't push one another over. etc.

 

The special training camps are setup to find an advantage over the comp.

 

It works for the Melbourne Storm and they are now one of the power clubs of the NRL,  with Premiership Cups to browse.

Our Mfc methods of 50 odd years, are not something to others to follow.  So we need to change, & to harden up.

Edited March 18, 2018 by DV8

[DV8 2,271]

3 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Mental toughness comes in many forms.  Again, a camp that impacts the ability of a team to cover ground, in a game where running and covering ground is crucial, surely wouldn't be high on any AFL team's agenda (or any sport that involves a signifant amount of two way running).  Plenty of other camps and team building getaways that can do that without the impact on legs.  Pretty sure the playing group isn't adverse to tough effort and team work in pre-season training or other pre-season camps/team toughness building (boot style).

They just don't like what last year's camp did to their legs pre-season (mostly), is what I heard.  Many complained of being just too heavy down low after the camp with not enough running capacity.  Venturing more towards a NRL type preferred outcome.  Bellamy & Co may well benefit from that style of camp!  Horses for courses DV.

Not every Club/team has a need to improve their hardness. All clubs will have their better points and all will have their sore points.

Ours traditionally have been being too nice, too generous with the opposition, & being reluctant to trade with heavy hits & meanness on-field.

 

We like it when the game is played around the wings as a traditional strength, with outside runners.  It looks great around the Mcg wings, when we've carried the footy, in bygone era's.

 

But the name of the game is winning Premierships.  Something that is a decided weakness in our past half century.

Edited March 18, 2018 by DV8

[sue 8,477]

27 minutes ago, DV8 said:

It won't.   A cracked collar bone doesn't leave a player unable to maintain leg fitness & condition, nor aerobically.  

After a few days the player can continue to run.

For an injury like that you are right.  But what about having no sleep fo 48 hours and other tortures designed for soldiers? 

Funny that a lot of the players thought differently about the effect on fitness.   And a fat lot of good it did for toughening up the team mentally in 2017.  So you'd have to have strong arguments for doing something similar again.  Perhaps the arguments weren't good enough. 

Edited March 18, 2018 by sue