24 minutes ago, TGR said:

BS.

 

If Jack Watts left Melbourne a year of so ago, we would have labelled him a "traitor".  He stuck fat when we were siht.  We should stick fat over his temporary plot-losing in the pre-season of 2017.

 

Please don't speak on my behalf. Jack Watts didn't leave a year or so ago because no other club would have offered him the same sweet deal he had at Melbourne. Loyalty my ass. Loyalty is fronting up - not just hanging around. You don't call a cat loyal just because it comes home at dinner-time.

I recall either the last contract or the one before, Jack made quite a little song about how he was sticking around (after testing the market), like he was doing us a favour - despite having contributed SFA on-field to our cause. Aggravated then, and still rankles now when people speak of him being such a great club-man. 

Edited November 1, 20177 yr by Skuit

On 10/31/2017 at 10:56 AM, drdrake said:

Trust me it is all about the clash jumper and Essendon is the main reason why we had to change from the red clash jumper to the white.  

I have it on good authority that we will have a new clash jumper ourselves next year. I think fans will be happier than they were with this year's

3 minutes ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

I have it on good authority that we will have a new clash jumper ourselves next year. I think fans will be happier than they were with this year's

A pretty low bar. You could send the team out in Hawaiian shirts and most people would be happier than this year's effort.

Just now, Skuit said:

A pretty low bar. You could send the team out in Hawaiian shirts and most people would be happier than this year's effort.

admittedly so. However, I think next year's will be the best 'alternate' strip we have seen so far. I can't really reveal more than that at this stage. 

Just now, Leoncelli_36 said:

admittedly so. However, I think next year's will be the best 'alternate' strip we have seen so far. I can't really reveal more than that at this stage. 

Wait. I vaguely recall that someone on here was perhaps professionally involved in design and had been sending ideas to the club . . ?

21 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I don't accept that receiving some help dooms us to blindly support and be beholden to the AFL either Red, but my response was to Macca who stated we have stood on our own two feet when clearly we haven't.

Many on this forum continually look to inequities and excuses as to why we can't achieve things.  There wasn't a lot in the draw this year that hinders us so now we are turning to things such as "4 Friday night games for Carlton", "another away game at Geelong" and "another away game to Essendon".  They use these "garnish" issues to find excuses for us, why we can't succeed and they lay the blame at the feet of the AFL so any failure we have can be sheeted home to someone else.

Frankly I don't buy it.  If you don't take responsibility for your own performance and work in the environment you have you just set up reasons to fail.

Of course the AFL are responsible for inequities in the draw.  Of course they can be critiqued.  Of course they make mistakes.  But the reality for me is they have also kept us alive and been generous of spirit towards us when we have been on our knees and behaved atrociously.  I've said before I rarely if ever comment when I agree with the general mood as what is one more "voice of agreement" going to achieve.  But I will comment when I disagree with the general view here and I think the AFL get a bad rap for their treatment of us and there is another side to the AFL story that is rarely if ever represented here.

Well said - if this was delivered in real life, think you would get real traction, but sadly on social media it may be lost on many. AFL cops more than its fair share of criticism & blame, you cant be everything to everybody.  

On 1 November 2017 at 9:14 AM, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

So said Julius Caesar when querying Brutus.

Et "too" Brute?...........I see your point!

Since PJ has taken up the CEO role at the club he has continuously intimated that we stand on our own 3 feet.

And why wouldn't we believe him?  He is a nan of obvious integrity and couldn't possibly be spinning us any lines. 

Only those with a grudge to bear or an obvious agenda might choose to believe otherwise.

 

36 minutes ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

admittedly so. However, I think next year's will be the best 'alternate' strip we have seen so far. I can't really reveal more than that at this stage. 

Our first all red jumpers were the best, I still can't understand why we can't have the all red instead of white

9 minutes ago, Macca said:

Since PJ has taken up the CEO role at the club he has continuously intimated that we stand on our own 3 feet.

And why wouldn't we believe him?  He is a nan of obvious integrity and couldn't possibly be spinning us any lines. 

Only those with a grudge to bear or an obvious agenda might choose to believe otherwise.

 

Oh honestly Macca, if you want to limit discussion and critique to the last 3 good years then yes we've stood on our own two feet and been a club that can be respected for doing so.  But to go back further is to recognize the reality and understand better some of the decisions that are made and the reasons behind them.  It's not  "bearing a grudge and an agenda".  That's is clearly nonsense and I'm surprised you'd make such a statement.

16 hours ago, Demonland said:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/richmond-goes-from-afls-secondeasiest-draw-to-secondhardest-while-collingwood-gets-dream-run/news-story/3402a919643eaab388715b312b99ce0f

Draw difficulty

Ranking (hardest to easiest)	Club	2017 ladder finish (post finals)
1	Fremantle	14th
2	Richmond	1st
3	West Coast	6th
4	Hawthorn	12th
5	St Kilda	11th
6	GWS	4th
7	Melbourne	9th
8	Adelaide	2nd
9	Western Bulldogs	10th
10	Essendon	8th
11	Carlton	16th
12	Brisbane	18th
13	Geelong	3rd
14	Sydney	5th
15	Port Adelaide	7th
16	Gold Coast	17th
17	North Melbourne	15th
18	Collingwood	13th
* Draw difficulty as assessed by Champion Data

This table did not take into account the difficulty of playing at Geelong. The unusually shaped ground with 30000 hostile supporters and virtually none of our own,means that it is rare for away teams to win there,however poor a season Geelong has.

Collingwood, Essendon, usually Carlton(surprisingly they go there this year), and usually Richmond, don't face this problem.

It is easily as great a factor as successive 6 day breaks, but is not taken into account in the above table.

It's similar to travelling to other states, but that disadvantage is shared more equally.

 

2 minutes ago, Jumping Jack Clennett said:

This table did not take into account the difficulty of playing at Geelong.

 

 

How do you know?  I'd be interested to know how they base it. 

I agree with you, playing at Geelong is pretty much a death sentence.

1 hour ago, Skuit said:

A pretty low bar. You could send the team out in Hawaiian shirts and most people would be happier than this year's effort.

For the white one, yes. For the one that is the normal jumper with the red back, I personally think that one is the best by a street so far.

30 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Oh honestly Macca, if you want to limit discussion and critique to the last 3 good years then yes we've stood on our own two feet and been a club that can be respected for doing so.  But to go back further is to recognize the reality and understand better some of the decisions that are made and the reasons behind them.  It's not  "bearing a grudge and an agenda".  That's is clearly nonsense and I'm surprised you'd make such a statement.

I was only ever talking about the recent past ... I was replying to someone who was saying that we don't stand on our own 2 feet right now.

If you want to go right back in time,  that is a completely separate discussion.

If we are getting any extra grants or handouts,  they are nowhere to be seen.  Not in the annual reports (overseen by PJ),  nothing in the media either. 

It's just another myth and I'm surprised that you can't see that it's a myth. 

52 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

How do you know?  I'd be interested to know how they base it. 

I agree with you, playing at Geelong is pretty much a death sentence.

They listed the criteria under the table when it was in the paper yesterday.

1 hour ago, drdrake said:

Our first all red jumpers were the best, I still can't understand why we can't have the all red instead of white

Essendon do, we should be able to as well

Every year we go through the hand wringing about our poor draw.

The real problem has always been  the inability of the team to win games.

Last year we had a fairly good draw and the team was not up to the job of winning enough games.

When we win 15 next  year and make the finals no one will be mentioning the draw.

 

58 minutes ago, Jumping Jack Clennett said:

They listed the criteria under the table when it was in the paper yesterday.

I read this as "They listed the criteria "under the table" when it was in the paper yesterday" and assumed you meant that money exchanged hands in a brown paper bag.

And then I realised that, just maybe, that's what's happened.

3 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Posted under Baghdad Bob by mistake.

? 

So you have more than one identity here! That's naughty.

40 minutes ago, old dee said:

Every year we go through the hand wringing about our poor draw.

The real problem has always been  the inability of the team to win games.

Last year we had a fairly good draw and the team was not up to the job of winning enough games.

When we win 15 next  year and make the finals no one will be mentioning the draw.

 

I certainly hope you are right, but even if we won all 22 home and away games, I think there will still be discussion about the draw ...

8 minutes ago, Red and Bluebeard said:

I certainly hope you are right, but even if we won all 22 home and away games, I think there will still be discussion about the draw ...

Yep what a great one it was.

Forget the bloody thing and get on with winning games no matter what.

2 hours ago, Jumping Jack Clennett said:

This table did not take into account the difficulty of playing at Geelong. The unusually shaped ground with 30000 hostile supporters and virtually none of our own,means that it is rare for away teams to win there,however poor a season Geelong has.

Collingwood, Essendon, usually Carlton(surprisingly they go there this year), and usually Richmond, don't face this problem.

It is easily as great a factor as successive 6 day breaks, but is not taken into account in the above table.

It's similar to travelling to other states, but that disadvantage is shared more equally.

 

If that is true, then rather than the 6th easiest draw for 2018 for the 3rd placed side this year, it is closer to the easiest . Ordinary effort in fixing I mean fixturing.

2 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Oh honestly Macca, if you want to limit discussion and critique to the last 3 good years then yes we've stood on our own two feet and been a club that can be respected for doing so.  But to go back further is to recognize the reality and understand better some of the decisions that are made and the reasons behind them.  It's not  "bearing a grudge and an agenda".  That's is clearly nonsense and I'm surprised you'd make such a statement.

There is no doubt our last 3-4 years have been solid years predicated on 3 business fundamentals 

1/ AFL "recommend" CEO who is a professional AFL football administrator

2/ AFL approved Board 

3/ Poker Machines Revenues 

As you said earlier can PJ install a stable legacy. Can PJ or the "next CEO" derive sources of revenues to grow our club in a period of escalating costs and relatively stagnate incomes. Will the next CEO be AFL "recommended" - this year will tell - its over to our supporters and members now - ball is in our court if we can stand on our own two feet. 

Point 3 is the game changer, Project Fruit ( whoever thought of the name at least has a sense of humour) is underway - its no longer a matter of if we are going to lose the revenues its a matter of when. We have been co-opted onto the Project due to our reliance on the revenues for our survival.

Fun times ahead   

1 minute ago, DaveyDee said:

There is no doubt our last 3-4 years have been solid years predicated on 3 business fundamentals 

 

 

By comparison to 12 odd other clubs in the league our last 3-4 years have been financially weak.

Only GCS, GWS, Brisbane, North and maybe Freo or Saints are likely to have done worse.

At best we are treading water.

12 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

By comparison to 12 odd other clubs in the league our last 3-4 years have been financially weak.

Only GCS, GWS, Brisbane, North and maybe Freo or Saints are likely to have done worse.

At best we are treading water.

Our club does not give a F about other clubs it has its own problems to solve - a point clearly lost on many in the thread.

After we win a premiership - that way of thinking may change. But one step at a time.  

Edited November 2, 20177 yr by DaveyDee