Despite our improvements in many areas leadership has perhaps gotten worse. Would be good if Jones relinquished position and played out the rest of his career as a great and loyal player. Viney should be sole captain next season.

Edited September 26, 20178 yr by america de cali

6 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Despite our improvements in many areas leadership has perhaps gotten worse. Would be good if Jones relinquished position and played out the rest of his career as a great and loyal player. Viney should be sole captain next season.

While I would agree that leadership on the field has been a struggle this year, i wouldn't say that I would include Jones as part of the problem.  He single handedly pulled us over the line in a couple of games this year and we missed him as a player and leader when he was out of the team.

One more year of co-captaincy.

Give him one more year, let Viney chomp at the bit for another year, although he's probably doing it as we speak.

Hopefully with finals next year it would be a great way to finish off for Jonesy whilst Viney will gain some more experience and be ready to go 2019 and beyond. 

Whilst I don't really rate Jones's on field leadership, another year before Viney  takes over as sole captain

22 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

While I would agree that leadership on the field has been a struggle this year, i wouldn't say that I would include Jones as part of the problem.  He single handedly pulled us over the line in a couple of games this year and we missed him as a player and leader when he was out of the team.

Was missed certainly as a player but he has been a culprit in many of our terrible starts. We won big games with him and without him. Co-captaincy is both a glass half full and half empty.

Edited September 26, 20178 yr by america de cali

What does Jones add to Viney that Viney doesn't have? My answer is nothing. From the grandstand, Jones adds nothing on-field and Viney has already shown what and when to stand up and inspire. Personally I'd let Viney take the reigns now, he's a rare breed who has no problems shouldering the load IMO. I'm far from impressed with Jones' leadership.

Edited September 26, 20178 yr by SFebey

I don't think it's accurate to say that our leadership went backwards this year.  I think that it was more a case of our expectations increasing.  This is a healthy thing.

It could be argued that there games that we won this year because our leaders stood up, Jones included, and dragged us across the line.

For this reason, I'd like to see him remain co-captain for another season.  He still offers so much in terms of ability, maturity, experience and leadership.  As the younger guys hopefully get more consistent in 2018, I think Jones will show how important he still is for this team.

Viney is the player who pulled us over the line in 2 games this year, both when he was injured. 

Meth Coke and Port Games. 

Jones has never done that. 

Viney has learnt quick, he is ready

21 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Was missed certainly as a player but he has been a culprit in many of our terrible starts. We won big games with him and without him. Co-captaincy is both a glass half full and half empty.

True, but the same thing could be said about Viney.

Essentially we don't know what happens on the field - the only people who really do are the players and coaches and they have appointed Jones Captain for the past four years.  I think the time for him to move on will be when the pressure of preparation, coupled with the captaincy becomes too much - essentially a year or so before retirement.

I think the improvement in onfield leadership needs to come from those who aren't Jones or Viney.

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Viney is the player who pulled us over the line in 2 games this year, both when he was injured. 

Meth Coke and Port Games. 

Jones has never done that. 

Viney has learnt quick, he is ready

He did against the Gold Coast - loan hand in the third quarter turned the match.

Hi efforts against the Doggies were huge too.

Another vote for one more year. Viney will be more than ready 2019 to go it alone.

Just now, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

He did against the Gold Coast - loan hand in the third quarter turned the match.

Hi efforts against the Doggies were huge too.

Jones is not a natural leader, never has been. He has tried hard, but it is not his thing. 

Let's be brutal here, The Gold Coast were an unravelling shambles this year. They gave no resistance in that 3rd Quarter. We need more than that  

Viney will play like Cotchin did last Saturday given the right team around him...

 

3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Jones is not a natural leader, never has been. He has tried hard, but it is not his thing. 

Let's be brutal here, The Gold Coast were an unravelling shambles this year. They gave no resistance in that 3rd Quarter. We need more than that  

Viney will play like Cotchin did last Saturday given the right team around him...

 

Ah, the old "natural leader" line.  We'll have people getting on here in a minute claiming that he goes surfing too much to continue with the captaincy.

Only have to look at the best players in some of our close wins this season.  Jones appears quite frequently, as does Viney.  They are often joined by Lewis, TMc and Hibberd.  Hence why I don't think it's very accurate to say we have gone backwards in our leadership (as the OP has stated).

I don't think there's any argument that Viney will be a long-term captain of the MFC (I'm more concerned about his foot injury, but that's a different thread).  I think the co-captaincy worked in 2017, and expect it to continue next year.  2019 is when the change is complete.

Jones does a lot to protect Viney still, happy for him to stay on next year and reassess in 2018 

1 minute ago, The Chazz said:

Ah, the old "natural leader" line.  We'll have people getting on here in a minute claiming that he goes surfing too much to continue with the captaincy.

Only have to look at the best players in some of our close wins this season.  Jones appears quite frequently, as does Viney.  They are often joined by Lewis, TMc and Hibberd.  Hence why I don't think it's very accurate to say we have gone backwards in our leadership (as the OP has stated).

I don't think there's any argument that Viney will be a long-term captain of the MFC (I'm more concerned about his foot injury, but that's a different thread).  I think the co-captaincy worked in 2017, and expect it to continue next year.  2019 is when the change is complete.

We agree to disagree...Jones goes missing when the heat is turned up far too often for my liking. 

Great Captains thrive on serious pressure

I think the fact that Viney was voted in as co-captain clearly shows Jones isn't up to it by himself.

7 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

Ah, the old "natural leader" line.  We'll have people getting on here in a minute claiming that he goes surfing too much to continue with the captaincy.

Only have to look at the best players in some of our close wins this season.  Jones appears quite frequently, as does Viney.  They are often joined by Lewis, TMc and Hibberd.  Hence why I don't think it's very accurate to say we have gone backwards in our leadership (as the OP has stated).

I don't think there's any argument that Viney will be a long-term captain of the MFC (I'm more concerned about his foot injury, but that's a different thread).  I think the co-captaincy worked in 2017, and expect it to continue next year.  2019 is when the change is complete.

Lame pathetic efforts like against Freo, North+2, Hawks, Collingwood and add Brisbane were mainly due to poor leadership. Jones should take ultimate responsibility because he is the top dog and it cost us plenty. Not the newbie Viney or others. I don’t see him firing up players or getting angry when the chips are down.

Edited September 26, 20178 yr by america de cali

2 minutes ago, SFebey said:

I think the fact that Viney was voted in as co-captain clearly shows Jones isn't up to it by himself.

A unilateral decision by Goodwin is hardly what I would call voted in.

4 minutes ago, rjay said:

A unilateral decision by Goodwin is hardly what I would call voted in.

Even worse then, the coach didn't think he could do it himself.

Edited September 26, 20178 yr by SFebey

20 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Lame pathetic efforts like against Freo, North+2, Hawks, Collingwood and add Brisbane were mainly due to poor leadership. Jones should take ultimate responsibility because he is the top dog and it cost us plenty. Not the newbie Viney or others. I don’t see him firing up players or getting angry when the chips are down.

Interestingly...

Freo - Neither Viney nor Jones in the best

Hawthorn - Viney BOG, Jones 5th best

North (1st time) - Viney not in best, Jones 4th best

North (2nd time) - Viney not in best, Jones did not play

Brisbane - Viney DNP, Jones not in best (had 32 possessions)

Collingwood - Viney DNP, Jones 5th best

The game that without doubt we are all pizzed off the most about (or at least should be) in 2017, the North in Hobart game, Jones didn't play and Viney didn't get in the best.  But oh no, we can't go crook at the "newbie".  FMD.

49 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Viney is the player who pulled us over the line in 2 games this year, both when he was injured. 

Meth Coke and Port Games. 

Jones has never done that. 

Viney has learnt quick, he is ready

Im not the greatest 'Jones for captain' but i would say it was his efforts after half time against the Suns that rebooted things and got us there. That's a good thing.

However it also highlighted to me his and out team's most notable failing. We get going too slowly and too late on many occasions.

I dont mind Jones as a player and we missed some of his better attributes when injured but thats as a contributing player.

I just dont see a lot of Captain's game about him. I never have. Others perfectly entitled to their view and vote.

Id pass the baton in 2018.

39 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

Interestingly...

Freo - Neither Viney nor Jones in the best

Hawthorn - Viney BOG, Jones 5th best

North (1st time) - Viney not in best, Jones 4th best

North (2nd time) - Viney not in best, Jones did not play

Brisbane - Viney DNP, Jones not in best (had 32 possessions)

Collingwood - Viney DNP, Jones 5th best

The game that without doubt we are all pizzed off the most about (or at least should be) in 2017, the North in Hobart game, Jones didn't play and Viney didn't get in the best.  But oh no, we can't go crook at the "newbie".  FMD.

No criticism of Jones personal game but he is the senior co-captain and he when it gets tough he is too passive. All the standing up to the opposing argy bargy is left to the likes of Viney, Lewis, Vince, Bugg etc. These guys stand up for their teammates and also get suspended occasionally because they push the limits. Jones rarely sails close to the wind in supporting and firing up his team mates. Always in the background when the going gets tough. 

Edited September 26, 20178 yr by america de cali

36 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Im not the greatest 'Jones for captain' but i would say it was his efforts after half time against the Suns that rebooted things and got us there. That's a good thing.

However it also highlighted to me his and out team's most notable failing. We get going too slowly and too late on many occasions.

I dont mind Jones as a player and we missed some of his better attributes when injured but thats as a contributing player.

I just dont see a lot of Captain's game about him. I never have. Others perfectly entitled to their view and vote.

Id pass the baton in 2018.

That's how i have always seen Jones, as a good solid contributing player. Many people will be offended by that, but so be it. 

It is one of the many reasons why the MFC has failed for so many years 

2017 ended exactly the same as 2016 even though we won 2 more games for the season. 

When the pressure was turned up to almost maximum, the MFC capitulated without a whimper. 

That is all about lack of leadership. 

We need 1 Captain who will stand up and demand excellence in all areas of the game.

Jones has been there long enough and his best is just not enough. 

14 minutes ago, america de cali said:

 Jones rarely sails close to the wind in supporting and firing up his team mates. Always in the background when the going gets tough. 

This^^

Jones is a great bloke. No arguement at all

but Zac would beat him in the backyard

he is too nice