1 minute ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

You really don't like him do you? Like...really don't.

1

Have always been a Watts fan and defender. But it's clear that his nice guy/party boy side has become problematic as we try to build a premiership-contending club and culture. Nothing against him personally, don't even begrudge him not wanting to go the extra mile and really put in with his preparation etc. After all, he's got this far on being a supremely talented great bloke, I can understand him thinking "why bother?". And who could blame him? Not me in any case.

4 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I think Jack will relent and leave because I don't believe Mahoney when he says that Jack can come back - I think the message will be 'why come back when we don't want you? You are better off starting again elsewhere.' It is a powerful motivator when the coaching staff tell you to eff off.

My personal opinion is that the harder decision for Jack to make is to stay, and I also believe that no matter where he goes he will not be better off and that other clubs will eat him alive; think about the division amongst Dees fans/members/FD - there will be no division on Jack at other clubs - he will be on notice from day 1 and even with full commitment and proper preparation - 3 bad losses and there is a ready made fall guy and that will be that.

If Jack does stay he's either:

1. a bloody lunatic,

2. a massive sucker for punishment, or

3. his loyalty knows no bounds!

Other clubs will be climbing over themselves to get Jack. And believe it or not, in the "manly" world of AFL football, many clubs approach player management with a supportive, encouraging, trusting mindset (albeit not 'soft').

Roos knows him in-depth and didn't have any driving reason to come out and paint Jack in pretty glowing terms. IMO, other clubs will have a pretty high respect for Roosy's opinion knowing that he ain't no fool or two bob coach and is pretty demanding himself.

12 minutes ago, rpfc said:

That Mahoney interview was a public appeal trying to convince Jack to go.

The irony is yesterday Jack made an impassioned public plea for the club to let him stay.

I wish they would play it out a bit more privately but instead we have a public Mexican standoff.

Things seem very icy!  Our B & F next Monday should be interesting if Jack attends. 

 

demonland has stooped to a new low.

who cares how nice he is! its about making our club ruthless again and jack is the least ruthless on the list. He shouldve gone years ago.

All year (in fact the last several years) we have had to carry watts and his weak defensive and tackling efforts. The only reason why Watts managed to last this long is because Roos, Neeld etc. all came along and wanted to see if they could change him..but they couldn't. 

And anytime you mention the elephant in the room which is that he is arguably the softest player in the league, i hear the same dribble.."...but his skills are good'. The reason jack has been loyal is because he wouldnt have been playing footy at most other clubs and we gifted him the first 100 games of his career.

 

3 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I honestly don't see how anyone can see this as 'a good club doing what good clubs do'...

I see this situation as more of a "pity we didn't have these standards sooner".

1 - Jack Watts may not have been made the scapegoat as a result

2 - We wouldn't have lost to the filth, costing us a place in the finals

I hope the standards which are now seeming to be placed on the playing group are likewise placed on the coaching group as well.

I want everyone held to account.

 

7 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

demonland has stooped to a new low.

who cares how nice he is! its about making our club ruthless again and jack is the least ruthless on the list. He shouldve gone years ago.

All year (in fact the last several years) we have had to carry watts and his weak defensive and tackling efforts. The only reason why Watts managed to last this long is because Roos, Neeld etc. all came along and wanted to see if they could change him..but they couldn't. 

And anytime you mention the elephant in the room which is that he is arguably the softest player in the league, i hear the same dribble.."...but his skills are good'. The reason jack has been loyal is because he wouldnt have been playing footy at most other clubs and we gifted him the first 100 games of his career.

 

This...

I also want what is best for the club and not Jack Watts, I don't believe Jack has done anything wrong or needs to be shown the door. Nor do I like the publicness of this whole saga, I agree with those points.

What I don't agree with is that MFC is in debt to Jack. Has he had it tough, no doubt, does every story have a fairy tale ending?

I wonder if Jack will repay his wage for all the years he didn't put in 100% - clearly that statement makes no sense because no employer has ever asked an employee to repay for poor performance they just move them on.

People can write their own narratives on this story to suit their arguments, but the reality is if Jack was really putting in 110% we wouldn't be having this conversation

 

Edited October 4, 20178 yr by Unleash Hell

45 minutes ago, Akum said:

If that was the move that allowed them to snag Caddy as well as Prestia & Nankervis, yes.

(and if I actually gave a sh!t about Richmond, I would know that)

All good mate

Was just trying to point out that players leaving aren't the end of the world

44 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

For all of Watts' talent, he doesn't influence games anywhere near as much as he should.

Clearly our FD have had enough and their strong stance is a clear message sent to the rest of the playing group as well, 'talent alone is not good enough, you need to perform'.

We bemoan the lack of leadership within the footy group, yet when the FD start expecting higher standards with a ruthless aggression, we cry foul?

Clearly some on here would rather wallow in mediocrity for a little longer. If Jack Watts being pushed out is a result of the team finally being held to account for their inconsistent performances, then that's fine by me. It's about time the players' are fully held responsible for their actions.

Yeah. No problem at all with higher standards. Peak performance demands it. But there are ways you do it. So do you reckon the FD wasn't expecting "higher standards" during the Roos years?

Just to put the fear of God into some already trembling hearts........anybody remember this headline.

I'm just sayin!!! I'm sure it's just a totally unfounded coincidence????????? If i recall, this became the headline the day after their captain left the club!!

What was he heard to be saying about Jack again? Hahahahaha. You gotta laugh haven't you? Or else you'll go crazy!!!!

Wonder how much influence Macca is having on a relatively inexperienced coach.

No issues from the FD under Paul Roos - a coach known for building strong, resilient cultures - but once he left it seems as though it didn't take long for the shoit to hit the fan.

Edited October 4, 20178 yr by ChewyOnMyBoot

42 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Have always been a Watts fan and defender. But it's clear that his nice guy/party boy side has become problematic as we try to build a premiership-contending club and culture. Nothing against him personally, don't even begrudge him not wanting to go the extra mile and really put in with his preparation etc. After all, he's got this far on being a supremely talented great bloke, I can understand him thinking "why bother?". And who could blame him? Not me in any case.

Ok. Just not the impression I've gotten from your posts.

Edited October 4, 20178 yr by ChewyOnMyBoot

1 minute ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

Yeah. No problem at all with higher standards. Peak performance demands it. But there are ways you do it. So do you reckon the FD wasn't expecting "higher standards" during the Roos years?

Just to put the fear of God into some already trembling hearts........anybody remember this headline.

I'm just sayin!!! I'm sure it's just a totally unfounded coincidence????????? If i recall, this became the headline the day after their captain left the club!!

What was he heard to be saying about Jack again? Hahahahaha. You gotta laugh haven't you? Or else you'll go crazy!!!!

Wonder how much influence Macca is having on a relatively inexperienced coach. No issues under Paul Roos - a coach known for building strong, resilient cultures - but once he left it didn't take long for the shoit to hit the fan.

This statement interest's me.

How is one player leaving a crisis? 

1 minute ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

Yeah. No problem at all with higher standards. Peak performance demands it. But there are ways you do it. So do you reckon the FD wasn't expecting "higher standards" during the Roos years?

Just to put the fear of God into some already trembling hearts........anybody remember this headline.

I'm just sayin!!! I'm sure it's just a totally unfounded coincidence????????? If i recall, this became the headline the day after their captain left the club!!

What was he heard to be saying about Jack again? Hahahahaha. You gotta laugh haven't you? Or else you'll go crazy!!!!

Wonder how much influence Macca is having on a relatively inexperienced coach. No issues under Paul Roos - a coach known for building strong, resilient cultures - but once he left it didn't take long for the shoit to hit the fan.

This is the same Brendan McCartney who played a huge role in the successful Geelong sides that won a few flags and was held in extremely high regard by the players.

He was never cut out to be a senior coach, and his time at the Dogs proved that, but there is a line of thinking that suggests he planted the seeds for their flag last year and their implosion this year suggests the players are as much to blame.

From all reports the Melbourne players love him and they regularly talk about him in interviews about his positive impact on the club as a whole.

So take a good, hard look at your selective use of facts to try and make a point.

5 minutes ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

If Jack does stay he's either:

1. a bloody lunatic,

2. a massive sucker for punishment, or

3. his loyalty knows no bounds!

Other clubs will be climbing over themselves to get Jack. And believe it or not, in the "manly" world of AFL football, many clubs approach player management with a supportive, encouraging, trusting mindset (albeit not 'soft').

Roos knows him in-depth and didn't have any driving reason to come out and paint Jack in pretty glowing terms. IMO, other clubs will have a pretty high respect for Roosy's opinion knowing that he ain't no fool or two bob coach and is pretty demanding himself.

Exactly this. No chance he stays.

Roos said there's no way he would trade Watts. The years under Roos saw Jack's immense potential emerge. And Watts wasn't the only one. Gawn became AA and Hunt an unexpected star. All three went backwards in '17.

Watts gone. This is now about Goody as a coach.

8 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

This statement interest's me.

How is one player leaving a crisis? 

It ain't. It's football. As I've said before I don't particularly care what happens with Jack. We'll survive but just don't think the way it's handled is particularly good for culture. But happy to be proven wrong - and I better be. A position and good performance in 2018 finals will do that.

Edited October 4, 20178 yr by ChewyOnMyBoot

26 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I also believe that no matter where he goes he will not be better off and that other clubs will eat him alive; think about the division amongst Dees fans/members/FD - there will be no division on Jack at other clubs - he will be on notice from day 1 and even with full commitment and proper preparation - 3 bad losses and there is a ready made fall guy and that will be that.

The way you present this is, if he leaves he will be eaten alive. If he stays at the MFC, then what? He gets protected? 

I would hope he's on the same notice at the MFC, otherwise he may as well be is a mascot.

29 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I honestly don't see how anyone can see this as 'a good club doing what good clubs do'...

We will know by the outcome.

We either get a player in a trade who puts in like the coaches want.

Or we get a fired up Watts who finally fulfills his potential.

That will be a good club doing what good clubs do.

 

Or we get a greatest hits replay of a NQR Watts.

That will be hopeless old Melbourne, poor old Melbourne, etc.

 

We won't know until a few games into next season whether we are a good club doing what good clubs do.

6 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

This is the same Brendan McCartney who played a huge role in the successful Geelong sides that won a few flags and was held in extremely high regard by the players.

He was never cut out to be a senior coach, and his time at the Dogs proved that, but there is a line of thinking that suggests he planted the seeds for their flag last year and their implosion this year suggests the players are as much to blame.

From all reports the Melbourne players love him and they regularly talk about him in interviews about his positive impact on the club as a whole.

So take a good, hard look at your selective use of facts to try and make a point.

Yeah. Some are like that aren't they - good assistants but crap when they're top dog.

I guess the aim I took at McCartney was due to something I read earlier about him having been heard openly taking a pot shot at Jack at some function or other. I probably should check that that was fact before I do so. Again, just not acceptable if he did.

Your point is taken though.

31 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The irony is yesterday Jack made an impassioned public plea for the club to let him stay.

I wish they would play it out a bit more privately but instead we have a public Mexican standoff.

Things seem very icy!  Our B & F next Monday should be interesting if Jack attends. 

 

Yeah but ... we're very ch31 aren't we 

15 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

All good mate

Was just trying to point out that players leaving aren't the end of the world

Agree mate, that was my original point too. 

I feel the beginning of an addiction - to posting on a bloody football forum - coming on. I'm going to have to fight this to the end!!

Nooooooooooooooooooo.

Hope my kids never find out.

Any advice? Anyone? Is it the beginning of the end?

Edited October 4, 20178 yr by ChewyOnMyBoot

After our dismal stumbling finish to the season, I fail to see how anyone can not be behind the club in sending a message.

If there's some collateral damage, so be it.

We simply cannot continue as we have for the last X years, teasing with some improvement, then f***ing up when it counts.

Something has to change and I say good on Goody for forcing the issue.

I reckon Jack won't be the only one who has been sent a message.

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

Yeah, nothing disgraceful at all about his clear lack of professionalism and maturity towards the club and the standards they have put in place.

Before you act like a [censored], remember this works both ways.

1 Clear lack of professionalism by Goodwin. 

2 What was the lack of professionalism by Watts?  Not training hard enough.?  What a joke.  No heavy drinking or breaking club rules. 

3 Standards? Try loyalty - Watts has it.  

4 standards? Sticking to a contract.  Try that. 

Kent  Bugg  Vince should all go now. Not adhering to standards  

Wiseblood again is wrong. Again very very wrong. I’ve lost count. Getting tedious.  Big insult from a little man shows lack of your professionalism

 

Just now, spirit of norm smith said:

1 Clear lack of professionalism by Goodwin. 

2 What was the lack of professionalism by Watts?  Not training hard enough.?  What a joke.  No heavy drinking or breaking club rules. 

3 Standards? Try loyalty - Watts has it.  

4 standards? Sticking to a contract.  Try that. 

Kent  Bugg  Vince should all go now. Not adhering to standards  

Wiseblood again is wrong. Again very very wrong. I’ve lost count. Getting tedious.  Big insult from a little man shows lack of your professionalism

 

Small response from a small mind.

Stick to coming up with farcical trade ideas instead of analysing football issues.  It doesn't suit you.

18 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

For all of Watts' talent, he doesn't influence games anywhere near as much as he should.

Clearly our FD have had enough and their strong stance is a clear message sent to the rest of the playing group as well, 'talent alone is not good enough, you need to perform'.

We bemoan the lack of leadership within the footy group, yet when the FD start expecting higher standards with a ruthless aggression, we cry foul?

Clearly some on here would rather wallow in mediocrity for a little longer. If Jack Watts being pushed out is a result of the team finally being held to account for their inconsistent performances, then that's fine by me. It's about time the players' are fully held responsible for their actions.

Exactly

This  message would have been delivered at his exit interview. Probably not for the first time in his career.

he was told to consider his options outside mfc.

jack would have been hurt - probably surprised, and felt victimised as his loyality wasn't being rewarded. 

Unfortinately for jack the club's standards are being raised - and the coaching stuff doesn't believe he can lift his standards to the level required 

once this happened it was always going to be in the public domain (visiting other clubs - such as the doorstop interview in Adelaide)

via his manager, jack is pleading his case in public - just as much as the club is. I'm not sure who started this, but there is no way it couldn't be in the public domain if jack has been told to look for other options.

this is now an emotional debate amongst us all - but I can't see how Goodwin or the club can be accused of making a mistake or being unprofessional. It couldn't play out any other way once that message was delivered. 

The only downside for the club, besides the angst of supporters (which will be temporary if the club continues to improve), of what is happening now is a possible slight reduction of jacks trade value. The upside is that we get into an auction that gets us what we want/need for other trade targets, or jack ends up staying because we don't get want we want and his near death experience (in a football sense) sees a change in attitude that results in him delivering on the FDs expectations. It's a decent risk/reward imo.

So, do we have the stomach to make the hard calls to be an elite organisation? Looks like the Footy department does - but it's going to be harder for us supporters (who are probably more emotionally invested in individuals like Jack).

too many brackets and hyphens - (sorry!) 

 

What was incorrect?  Or just more of your insults again and again. 

 

2 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

After our dismal stumbling finish to the season, I fail to see how anyone can not be behind the club in sending a message.

If there's some collateral damage, so be it.

We simply cannot continue as we have for the last X years, teasing with some improvement, then f***ing up when it counts.

Something has to change and I say good on Goody for forcing the issue.

I reckon Jack won't be the only one who has been sent a message.

Yes, Watts had a poor final game. But so did Jones.

What's the message they're sending? Maybe they should trade out Jones too? I'd argue he's the one I look to step up and lead in those games we must win.