1 hour ago, Fifty-5 said:

I think you are being naive.

This is a culture decision.  The club values preparation ond the contest and Jack falls short on both.

It's about whole club performance 

This deal will be dissected and judged by fans and media - and, as you allude, one of the arguments will be the effect on the Demons' culture and professionalism once he leaves. 

So you actually agree with me...

9 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Not really. You strike me as a complete narcissist with a clear personality disorder.

Google this stuff. It's obvious.

 

Why ?

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Correct me if I’m wrong Doc but I’m picking up a bit on a bit of a vibe that you don’t rate Watts? 

thats about 10 mins of your life you'll never get back

1 hour ago, sue said:

Chewy raises some interesting points which I'd like to see answered by the remove Watts brigade.

How did he get himself fit enough for Round 1 without doing things that would be a good example to others?  Or do you say that good example can't override the original sin?

And if the FD had been demanding more all year so aggresively, why was Watts shocked? He's not stupid and putting it down to his arrogance or similar seems a bit weak to me.

careful...you're about to roll into a parallel dimension...where things have to make sense.....  just warning you 

3 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Exactly.

I can forgive him for anything in the Bailey and Neeld years - he had zero support, our coaching and development structure was a joke and there was no positive atmosphere or discipline to help him get better.

do you consider Jacks Footy to have not been pretty decent in 16/17..  forget all the stuff about off field...just for the moment view his ON FIELD presence 

For mine he had a cracker 16..and a very decent 17 before injury.

What say you good sir ?

@Demonland You should do a Jack Watts supporters podcast lol

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Just out of curiosity, where do we think JW will finish in this year's Bluey?

you ratbag...

will be fascinating really

23 minutes ago, mo64 said:

And WTF would Marcus Buckingham know about coaching or managing a sporting team competing at the highest level? Being a manager in the business world has no correlation with a sports coach or manager. 

Miscasting? Why should a manager make exceptions for a consistent poor performer? If you can find someone else who can fulfill the role that you ask them to play, then you don't waste your energies on the under performer.

Well, 60's management thinking in 2017- good stuff.

https://www.leadingteams.net.au

try reading about the people responsible for the culture roadmap at MFC and then you can join the dots.

Interesting that none of the Partners from Leading Teams ever played a game,  like Buckingham they specialise in leadership skills and team development- except Buckingham is globally recognised

Just now, Sargent Shultz said:

Well, 60's management thinking in 2017- good stuff.

https://www.leadingteams.net.au

try reading about the people responsible for the culture roadmap at MFC and then you can join the dots.

Interesting that none of the Partners from Leading Teams ever played a game,  like Buckingham they specialise in leadership skills and team development- except Buckingham is globally recognised

it actually worries me that Leading Teams has no real field experience.. Personally I dont rate them much.

Are we actually still using Leading Teams? They only list Haw and Frem on their website

Edited October 7, 20177 yr by SFebey

45 minutes ago, Dockett 32 said:

Goodwin and Taylor will do what they think best neither have done much wrong in my eyes.

Jack's had plenty of time to put his playing capabilities beyond doubt by now, yet here we are, still  arguing about them.

At best the picture remains unclear, at worst he hasn't done enough .

Frankly more worried about how Connors can demonstrate " no conflict of interest"  at Collingwood and in particular contracts for people like Trak coming up.

Am surprised ( well maybe I'm not) the AFL haven't commented on this little manoeuvre.

I'm also  interested in how a player manager with complete, presumed private  knowledge of the players he manages wouldn't put this information along with offers made to his clients available to his new employer for their advantage.

The issue of possible early disclosure/ insider trading type stuff bothers me.

 

Dead right. A much bigger worry than some hastily gathered together s##t stirrers (on this forum) trying to stir the pot heavily on Jack Watts. Who will acquit himself manfully before HE  decides what he's going to do.

There is much more afoot here with these bloody Player Managers who are being paid squillions to be the curs they are....

How would we like tossing this issue around in public, for the next duration, and players (star players) start thinking about their lot with this Club because of stupidity. and indecision....

I blame Jack Watts

3 hours ago, worldwideweb_demon said:

So it seems Lever for Watts and pick 10?

I guess that's the main reason we are letting him go. Sounds like a fair trade?

Massive Massive overs IMO , Every other club gets player X for second rounders or third and a set of steak knives, Surely this trade is making us a continued laughing stock!!

2 hours ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

Ok. I said before I wasn't going to add anything else here and I have been trying to wean myself off this thread.....BUT......the smell keeps getting worse and worse around here (and I don't think its coming from Mrs Chewy).

What I don't understand is that if Jack came back, in what has been put publicly out to everybody, in such a "poor" condition (although I've heard he did a PB in his 3km time trial), how is it that he was able to get himself back up into good enough condition to play the first round? Would that be physically possible? And, if his condition was so poor, how hard would he have had to have worked to have got the nod to play the first game. Particularly because they clearly (correctly) have the intention of not ever wanting to "gift" him (or any player for that matter) games.

No one has ever said it was his condition on return that was the issue, but rather him not meeting the KPIs set out in the training sessions. This was either due to one of two things I'd say:

a) He didn't come back fit enough to hit these metrics

b) He wasn't applying himself as much as he could in achieving the metric improvements to last year. E.g. taking it easy OR unaware that the bar had been raised.

I remember hearing a Paul Connors interview on SEN just around the time JW got dropped after the GWS game and he was asked about the preseason issue. Connors eluded to the fact that not achieving these metrics was actually debatable when comparing JW to the rest of the team, and that Jack was being treated differently. My stab in the dark hypothesis is that a % increase required of Watts by the FD was on the expectation JW would come build on his 2016 levels whereas Jack may have been unaware that the goal posts had changed.

 

Thinking of the Bluey and moving past this, now moot, debate - I was wondering what kind of speech I would make as a coach to that group and with that platform. Jack will the there of course, and there will be those bidding him farewell and there will be those still smarting from the end of the season. 

The message from Goodwin and Mahoney has been that Watts is being moved on for a lack of commitment and preparation to being a professional footy player. The merits of that message are not for debate here - that is the message.

So when it comes to Goodwin's speech he doesn't need to make an overt statement about that, and it would also be overtly 'on the nose' to make any more references to it with Jack in the room. 

If I was Goodwin, I would go a different route and try to thread a needle on a message of thanking Jack for his service, and making a point to the players that remain that they are officially out of excuses:

'...and that was my thoughts on this season.

Which brings me to tonight, tomorrow, the summer, and the future; to the sometimes brutal honesty we deliver each other, the tough decisions we make, the effort we put in when no-one is watching and the reward we get for that in the future. We will be saying goodbye to a few Demons tonight; (naming all delisted Demons)... and the incredibly loyal Demon Jack Watts. A few words on this impressive young man; Jack will soon start a new chapter in his career and all of us in this room want to see you succeed and want you to know how thankful the Melbourne footy club is for your contributions to the club over the past 9 years.

Jack put up with a lot over his time at this great club. A few years ago, when the club was not-so-great, Jack was placed on an unreachable pedestal. He was lauded as the saviour of a club that one player could never save. When things didn't go well, the first and last Demon that was criticised and dissected was number 4. He unfairly drew the attention of a rabid media and a disappointed and angry fanbase over most of the ills of the club. This has struck me the most since becoming head coach was the amount of attention afforded to the tall, blonde role playing flanker with the killer right boot... 

Moving forward into the future without Jack, my message to the players, footy department, and admin that remain is that we won't have that convenient distraction anymore, the scapegoat to all our problems won't have that burden - we will all have to shoulder that burden ourselves. There will be a renewed focus for this club on those that deserve such inspection and attention - starting with me, Peter, Glen, the Leadership Group, and our on-field performances will no longer be seen through the lens of 'Jack Watts and the Melbourne Football Club' - we will all now share that burden. I hope you are all willing to work hard this off season so that you are ready for that bright light of inspection come next season...(pause for effect, and I would look at a couple of players in the eyes) Thanks Jack, and we all wish you the best in your next chapter.'

That's the kind of address I would make...

20 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

No one has ever said it was his condition on return that was the issue, but rather him not meeting the KPIs set out in the training sessions. This was either due to one of two things I'd say:

a) He didn't come back fit enough to hit these metrics

b) He wasn't applying himself as much as he could in achieving the metric improvements to last year. E.g. taking it easy OR unaware that the bar had been raised.

I remember hearing a Paul Connors interview on SEN just around the time JW got dropped after the GWS game and he was asked about the preseason issue. Connors eluded to the fact that not achieving these metrics was actually debatable when comparing JW to the rest of the team, and that Jack was being treated differently. My stab in the dark hypothesis is that a % increase required of Watts by the FD was on the expectation JW would come build on his 2016 levels whereas Jack may have been unaware that the goal posts had changed.

 

Of course he was, he's a senior player and semi veteran of the club, of course the FD would expect a higher output from him and rightly so.

you think he'll be out the door by then  @rpfc ?

might all get a tad awkward.....deservedly so for mine

 

I cringe when I read that Jack might end up at Port or Collingwood. Not because I can't stand the thought of him wearing other colours, but that I genuinely fear for his public safety from their supporters the first time he shirks a contest. And never mind Geelong's supporters, Chris Scott would tear poor Jack apart.

Love Jack Watts... agree with all the positive comments made here. I'm keeping it simple.... Jack represents the most obvious means for MFC to improve its list. He has value... a hell of a lot more value than anyone else we would contemplate trading. We will benefit from Jack's impending departure!

5 hours ago, Slim said:

Fellow demonlanders

I for the life of me cannot understand why Goodwin wants jack gone

Excellent 2016

I thought his 2017 was very very good till he got injured

Had the guts flogged out of him rucking with gawn out

Looked to me like he did a power of work during those games

Gets injured and takes time to find form, 

Loves the club and stayed when could of jumped ship

Im not sold on Goodwin and this isnt exactly helping

Like everyone else on here suffered through some really dark days

And just when we see a flicker of light they pull this rubbish

Im so sick of holding in my breath and holding tight

This must not happen ,the fact that 5/6 clubs are chasing him shows he has value,they cant all be wrong

I cant believe im saying this but i will not be a member again if this happens

thanks max.

Watts will go to Geelong, out of Melb and in to a premiership chasing team, they'll be without Motlop and Menzel & he's already been heavily endorsed by Dangerfield. I wish him the best and I hope he gets a flag out of it, because thats all that matters at the end of the day. We are all here to chase that cup.

20 minutes ago, Skuit said:

I cringe when I read that Jack might end up at Port or Collingwood. Not because I can't stand the thought of him wearing other colours, but that I genuinely fear for his public safety from their supporters the first time he shirks a contest. And never mind Geelong's supporters, Chris Scott would tear poor Jack apart.

Are you implying that we put up with that and other sides don’t expect to see that?

53 years of no flags has just been summed up ther and then

5 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

I reckon he can become a sensational midfielder

He can certainly move well, i don’t think we have seen 20% of Jesse’s talents yet

4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Are you implying that we put up with that and other sides don’t expect to see that?

I'm implying that Port and Collingwood fans are mostly feral criminals and that Chris Scott is a bit scary.

21 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Watts will go to Geelong, out of Melb and in to a premiership chasing team, they'll be without Motlop and Menzel & he's already been heavily endorsed by Dangerfield. I wish him the best and I hope he gets a flag out of it, because thats all that matters at the end of the day. We are all here to chase that cup.

Agree. Pick 20 it will be...

Geelong is the right fit for him. He will blossom at the Cattery!