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Edited June 10, 20186 yr by Mach5
Changed my mind

43 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

Billings has had a poor season, but you are really selling him short.

He is a very good player and every club in the afl will be interested if he is on the market.

Reckon St Kilda will want more for him then what he's currently worth.

On 6/10/2018 at 11:18 PM, Watts the matter said:

Billings has had a poor season, but you are really selling him short.

He is a very good player and every club in the afl will be interested if he is on the market.

Define "selling him short?"

I know he was setting the AFL world on fire last year. I'm not saying we shouldn't be interested. It's only a question of price. He's not worth an early-mid second rounder. With a player who's draft value is almost entirely potential-based, you shouldn't give up good draft capital. Refer to Lynch (I know, I know... he's a KP forward and they take longer)...he was a first rounder who was traded for a late second rounder... That's the key. If you take a highly drafted player and hope that his potential works out at another club, then that's ok, provided you don't give up much to get him.

Besides all that, it's more about how much room you have in your 22. Who wants to see him languishing at Casey when our fleet of small forwards are dominating at AFL level? It's not that he's not good enough. But a small forward? We're swimming in them at the moment.

9 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

Define "selling him short?"

I know he was setting the AFL world on fire last year. I'm not saying we shouldn't be interested. It's only a question of price. He's not worth an early-mid second rounder. With a player who's draft value is almost entirely potential-based, you shouldn't give up good draft capital. Refer to Lynch (I know, I know... he's a KP forward and they take longer)...he was a first rounder who was traded for a late second rounder... That's the key. If you take a highly drafted player and hope that his potential works out at another club, then that's ok, provided you don't give up much to get him.

Besides all that, it's more about how much room you have in your 22. Who wants to see him languishing at Casey when our fleet of small forwards are dominating at AFL level? It's not that he's not good enough. But a small forward? We're swimming in them at the moment.

 

Selling him short would be calling him a draft bust, clearly you didn't watch him last season if you believe this is the case. Have you seen Chad Wingard play this year? Is he a spud also?

There is no way you are getting Billings for a second rounder, I can assure you of that. He is an elite talent. I can agree that we probably wouldn't be after him given his price though. 

His value would be similar to Brayshaws and easily more than Tyson on the open market. 

Swimming in them? Who? 

Just now, Watts the matter said:

 

Selling him short would be calling him a draft bust, clearly you didn't watch him last season if you believe this is the case. Have you seen Chad Wingard play this year? Is he a spud also?

There is no way you are getting Billings for a second rounder, I can assure you of that. He is an elite talent. I can agree that we probably wouldn't be after him given his price though. 

His value would be similar to Brayshaws and easily more than Tyson on the open market. 

Swimming in them? Who? 

What the hell are you talking about. Wingard's played multiple super seasons, dual all-australian under 25. Stupid comparison. He's a star out of form (til the weekend) and being played out of position. How does he compare?

Billings kicked 5 goals in a game and everyone got on board last year, but he wasn't the second coming of Gary Ablett jr was he. He's massively over-rated and is currently a big draft bust. He's played 70 games and you can count on one hand the ones he affected the result like the star he was drafted to be.

Lynch was a first rounder, 3 years into his career he hadn't done much and went for a second rounder. And he was a KP forward... a rarer commodity than a 183cm mid.

You can rate him as high as you want, but you're delusional if you think he's worth a first rounder. First rounders only go to players who've put together whole seasons. And yes, I did watch Billings last year. If that was supposed to be his breakout year, then I call it a draft bust. Bont was taken a pick after, and has left Billings in his wake.

The Braysh comparison is at least closer to the mark. The injury side of things is where they differ.

I'm not suggesting Tyson as a straight swap. I do reckon the Saints would love a player like him though, and he's viewed by many (not me) as surplus. Tyson plus overs would make sense.

As I said in previous post, we're "swimming" in small forwards. Jeffy can't even get a game. He kicked 40+ last year. Hannan, ANB, Melksham, Harmes, Tracca, Spargo, Kent, AVB, Balic, Fritsch, Bugg.... all are serious players who've played serious minutes. Many are champing at the bit to get a game. Billings probably offers slightly more than a few of those names, but giving up a first rounder for a player in an area we're already strong is just dumb list management. In other words, Billings' value is what he gets in a trade. Right now there isn't a club who'd give up a first rounder for him. 

43 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

What the hell are you talking about. Wingard's played multiple super seasons, dual all-australian under 25. Stupid comparison. He's a star out of form (til the weekend) and being played out of position. How does he compare?

Billings kicked 5 goals in a game and everyone got on board last year, but he wasn't the second coming of Gary Ablett jr was he. He's massively over-rated and is currently a big draft bust. He's played 70 games and you can count on one hand the ones he affected the result like the star he was drafted to be.

Lynch was a first rounder, 3 years into his career he hadn't done much and went for a second rounder. And he was a KP forward... a rarer commodity than a 183cm mid.

You can rate him as high as you want, but you're delusional if you think he's worth a first rounder. First rounders only go to players who've put together whole seasons. And yes, I did watch Billings last year. If that was supposed to be his breakout year, then I call it a draft bust. Bont was taken a pick after, and has left Billings in his wake.

The Braysh comparison is at least closer to the mark. The injury side of things is where they differ.

I'm not suggesting Tyson as a straight swap. I do reckon the Saints would love a player like him though, and he's viewed by many (not me) as surplus. Tyson plus overs would make sense.

As I said in previous post, we're "swimming" in small forwards. Jeffy can't even get a game. He kicked 40+ last year. Hannan, ANB, Melksham, Harmes, Tracca, Spargo, Kent, AVB, Balic, Fritsch, Bugg.... all are serious players who've played serious minutes. Many are champing at the bit to get a game. Billings probably offers slightly more than a few of those names, but giving up a first rounder for a player in an area we're already strong is just dumb list management. In other words, Billings' value is what he gets in a trade. Right now there isn't a club who'd give up a first rounder for him. 

23 possessions a game and 6th in the league for goal assists last year from a hff. Must have been one heck of a game. Toumpas is a draft bust, Billings isn't even close to a bust. Will be a 200 game player.

Garlett can't get a game because he has been putrid this season. If he was playing good football he would easily be out best small forward. Some of the names you have listed are not even worthy of a comparison. But you are making your point on the basis of thinking Billings is a hack, so I can see your argument in that regard. 

I can guarantee you there would be, but we will have to agree to disagree. If the Saints get rid of him you will be able to come back and see you were off the mark. 

Ultimately, I agree with you that we don't want him for what he would cost. However, if he was available for a second rounder I can assure you it would be done in a heartbeat.

28 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

23 possessions a game and 6th in the league for goal assists last year from a hff. Must have been one heck of a game. Toumpas is a draft bust, Billings isn't even close to a bust. Will be a 200 game player.

Garlett can't get a game because he has been putrid this season. If he was playing good football he would easily be out best small forward. Some of the names you have listed are not even worthy of a comparison. But you are making your point on the basis of thinking Billings is a hack, so I can see your argument in that regard. 

I can guarantee you there would be, but we will have to agree to disagree. If the Saints get rid of him you will be able to come back and see you were off the mark. 

Ultimately, I agree with you that we don't want him for what he would cost. However, if he was available for a second rounder I can assure you it would be done in a heartbeat.

Ah I see. I think we're clashing on definitions here. To me Jack Watts is a 200+ game player, but a draft bust. According to the yanks though, you have to be an absolute disaster of a footballer to be termed that, so I can see the confusion there.

Yeah, again, all about opinions. I'm not comparing those players directly to Billings. Some aren't even similar to him in any way, like AVB for example. My only point is the list management one. If we decided half those names weren't up to it at AFL level, then yeah, Billings becomes a target. But it's clear Goody loves a lot of those names and wants them in his side. For what it's worth I want to see all of them at MFC next year, including Garlett and AVB.

No you can't guarantee. Unless you're working for MFC? In which case, for gods sake get off this board. lol What you can do is attempt a prediction. I don't agree with it though, which I reckon is all we're doing here. If the Saints get rid of him and it's not for a first rounder, then I'll come back and see I was right. 70 games for a pick 3, then traded out for a second rounder is a bust in my book.

You're welcome to assure me. I'm going to assure you though, that we won't take him if we still have our current crop of small forwards. The whole thing is a bit of a yawn for me really. I mean... After yesterday it's clear we have a need for speed and skill through the midfield. Shiel-type/Gaff-type players. Mostly though we need a graders. We were shown up badly by some big name mids, and Billinsg doesn't solve that. Just more of the same.

 

Out of contract at the end of the year.

Brayshaw for Billings? And then a first round pick swap because the Saints won't want to lose Billings. So pick 2 or 3 for their pick 3 or 4 ?

 

Edited June 15, 20195 yr by John Demonic

If you think Petracca is a bad shot at goal,  just wait til you see Billings.

3 hours ago, John Demonic said:

Out of contract at the end of the year.

Brayshaw for Billings? And then a first round pick swap because the Saints won't want to lose Billings. So pick 2 or 3 for their pick 3 or 4 ?

 

Billings has improved but if you look at his pure numbers over the season he and Brayshaw are pretty evenly matched. The only point of difference is that Billings probably had more upside and a bit more class and vision. 

Its not Brayshaw I would trade him to the Saints for, though. It’s Petracca.

4 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

If you think Petracca is a bad shot at goal,  just wait til you see Billings.

It’s true Billings has had accuracy issues kicking for goal, but so as we know has Petracca. I know who’s kicking action is better though. What a nightmare it’s going to be trying to correct the latter’s technique now.

47 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Billings has improved but if you look at his pure numbers over the season he and Brayshaw are pretty evenly matched. The only point of difference is that Billings probably had more upside and a bit more class and vision. 

Its not Brayshaw I would trade him to the Saints for, though. It’s Petracca.

We won’t be trading Brayshaw or Petracca. 

55 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

We won’t be trading Brayshaw or Petracca. 

Like the confidence but I also heard:

We won’t be trading Watts.

We won’t be trading Hogan.

If there’s a trade scenario which improves the 22, you look at it.

 

Ffs. No trading of Brayshaw or Petracca.  Especially not for Billings. Agree Billings now is showing his promise and low draft pick selection. 

1 hour ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Ffs. No trading of Brayshaw or Petracca.  Especially not for Billings. Agree Billings now is showing his promise and low draft pick selection. 

Why not Petracca? Billings has reached higher peaks so far. When has Petracca had a 33 touch, 8 mark, 11 tackle, 2 goal match winning game of the kind Billings displayed yesterday? I’ve yet to see him come close.

I bet if you asked St Kilda fans about a Billings -Petracca trade they would be just as or even more vehemently against it than ours.

On 8/15/2017 at 1:01 AM, Watts the matter said:

Trade Tyson and Salem for him 

In all seriousness, I think he would frustrate the hell out of us. Having a great season but for a good kick always misses when going for goal. 

Would fit in perfectly for us

Tyson, Salem trade swap was a con job. Sold as us getting two top ten picks. Tyson had been hopeless with GWS and would have only bought a late second rounder at best if a single trade.. 

Has always had the talent, but never seemed to have the heart for it.

Is playing well though for this season - my fear would be that it's because it's a contract year.

Doubt Saints would let him walk - they have very little quality on their list.

gee . . . there's some complete and utter madness going on here.