Depth issues

[WERRIDEE 5,238]

This thread has come around at least a week too early. We had enough depth to cover our ruckman, do we have enough depth to cover our midfield?

We will see what our fringe players are really made of. ANB, JKH, Harmes, Kennedy, J.Smith, White, Wagner, Maynard, Kent,  Weideman, Pedersen, Trengove and Melksham will need to show us what they are made of if they want to be more than just good VFL players.

I'm looking forward to the Carlton game win that game and we suddenly don't have any depth lose and then we may have a problem.

Edited July 3, 2017 by WERRIDEE

[Engorged Onion 9,418]

On 30/06/2017 at 11:13 PM, Wiseblood said:

Name one club, other than GWS, that could cover the injuries we've had to this point?

I'll answer for you - none.  It has nothing to do with depth issues, it has everything to do with losing a host of key players, not to mention others like Brayshaw and AVB who could easily slot into the side as well.

Logged on for the first time since pre game Sydney... saw the name of this thread and sighed. Nicely on point @Wiseblood.

I'll use Geelong as an example

If they lost Dangerfield Selwood and (Selwood/Menegola/Duncan),Guthrie and H Taylor (as their 2nd tall) Hawkins, Z.Smith, Z Tuohy, where the eff would they be. 

I can't be arsed doing this for every side...

So maybe this OP went baiting, or more hopefully, just despondent and unfairly judging recruitment/dev.

 

Also - not certain what you're on about  @WERRIDEE with an all or nothing statement like this "We will see what our fringe players are really made of. ANB, JKH, Harmes, Kennedy, J.Smith, White, Wagner, Maynard, Kent,  Weideman, Pedersen, Trengove and Melksham will need to show us what they are made of if they want to be more than just good VFL players." Those players put in week in and week out, and on some weeks will play really well, and other weeks won't. It's all about development. And unfortunately development takes time... also would have thought Pedersen has more than acquitted himself this year. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by Danelska

[titan_uranus 22,669]

3 hours ago, poita said:

Our issues are what happens when you don't make every single spot on the list count. Consider the following:

• Lumumba is still taking up a spot
• We have two developing ruckmen on the list, both of whom are miles off playing senior football
• Mitch White is in his third year on the rookie list, and hasn't improved one iota since his first year
• (I'm a fan) but why is Trengove still on the list when the coach doesn't rate him? Same as Terlich last year
• JKH has done nothing in three years, gets a new contract and gives the club the middle finger by going out drinking
• We keep giving lengthy contracts to the likes of Kennedy, Melksham and Bugg who are not best 22 players and who have little incentive to perform until their next contract year

Yes we have injuries, and plenty of them, but aside from Weideman there is zero in the way of quality young talent developing at Casey.

So what's left at Casey is a group of players who have been tried and have failed over and over again, but are still on the list because we hope there will be a miracle at some point. You keep some of these because you have to, but the rest should be turned over on a regular basis.

That's because they're all largely developing in the seniors, which is in no small part because of our injuries.

[WERRIDEE 5,238]

7 minutes ago, Danelska said:

Logged on for the first time since pre game Sydney... saw the name of this thread and sighed. Nicely on point @Wiseblood.

I'll use Geelong as an example

If they lost Dangerfield Selwood and (Selwood/Menegola/Duncan),Guthrie and H Taylor (as their 2nd tall) Hawkins, Z.Smith, Z Tuohy, where the eff would they be. 

I can't be arsed doing this for every side...

So maybe this OP went baiting, or more hopefully, just despondent and unfairly judging recruitment/dev.

 

Also - not certain what you're on about  @WERRIDEE with an all or nothing statement like this "We will see what our fringe players are really made of. ANB, JKH, Harmes, Kennedy, J.Smith, White, Wagner, Maynard, Kent,  Weideman, Pedersen, Trengove and Melksham will need to show us what they are made of if they want to be more than just good VFL players." Those players put in week in and week out, and on some weeks will play really well, and other weeks won't. It's all about development. And unfortunately development takes time... also would have thought Pedersen has more than acquitted himself this year. 

Pedersen replaced Gawn perfectly, but he is a player that has to play well most weeks to keep his spot.

Can we find a replacement for Jones and Viney for the next month? That's the question. Lewis, Vince and Tyson will have to lift and the fringe players will have to show that they are AFL standard to keep their spot when given the chance.

[worldwideweb_demon 90]

Damn, some of you guys here make great points.

The stupid recruiters failed miserably. Why didn't they recruit someone adequate to fill in for Gawn when he went down?

We needed a hard nut to fill in and captain when Jonesy when down too? 

Oh wait, we have Viney. He went down too. Damn, the recruiters should have gotten two ready captains to just step in for them too.

Where's our backup forward duo to replace Hogan and Watts?? Pathetic that nobody could step in.

What about for Garlett? Tyson. Serious problems with the recruiters. 

 

Edited July 3, 2017 by worldwideweb_demon

[Chris 2,892]

On 30/06/2017 at 11:26 PM, Elegt said:

avb would have made zero difference tonight, he is similar standard to bugg melksham and anb

 

what we need is some fast  ready made mature aged players ala Mitch Hannan. Matt Hanson is a good candidate that springs to mind 

If they are like Mitch Hannah then they aren't depth, they are best 22. 

[Chris 2,892]

On 30/06/2017 at 11:09 PM, Elegt said:

Honestly something is going wrong in the recruiting/development area, all our depth players are not up to scratch. Trengove, jkh, white, weidman, Kennedy, Wagner, max King wouldn't get a game at any other afl  club this year. I know we have been crippled by injuries but we lack depth and better recruiting of mature aged depth players is needed, especially with all the six day breaks.

Depth player's don't get games at any club, that is why they are depth, they are there to cover injuries. We have had lots of injuries, which have been to our best. No depth player anywhere will replace the best, that is why they are depth. 

Unfair to include Weed, he is a young developing player, they take time. If he still isn't getting games in 2 years then fair enough. 

[monoccular 16,293]

On 01/07/2017 at 5:00 PM, Elegt said:

We are a team who needs to capitalise.. A win last night would've potentially put us in the top 4

Nobody doubts those words - they are fact.

But.....we do not have the fit cattle at the moment, with so many of our top 10-12 out - that is also a fact.

And no team (maybe GW$ excepted, thanks AFL) can have depth players who are of the same quality as the first chosen, and no team could foresee, and prepare for, the unbelievable number of serious injuries to so many of these key players.

[censored] happens, and cannot be foreseen.

Up until this week, our team has adapted and coped admirably, especially over the previous 3 rounds with travel and short changes.  But the dam has broken.

Hopefully we will be able to find enough players to take the field and win this week and next.

[Elegt 872]

bump

[beelzebub 22,269]

3 minutes ago, Elegt said:

bump

Lol

Cant really discuss much about what's not there

[Elegt 872]

don't blame injuries on our lack of depth people, the reality is none of our vfl players are up to scratch except Maynard 

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,186]

6 minutes ago, Elegt said:

don't blame injuries on our lack of depth people, the reality is none of our vfl players are up to scratch except Maynard 

Finishing top four in the VFL suggests that our depth is not as bad as you claim when compared to other AFL clubs.  It was the form of our better players, not our depth, that cost us a finals berth.

 

Suggesting that developing young players 'aren't up to it' is ridiculous.

[Elegt 872]

6 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Finishing top four in the VFL suggests that our depth is not as bad as you claim when compared to other AFL clubs.  It was the form of our better players, not our depth, that cost us a finals berth.

 

Suggesting that developing young players 'aren't up to it' is ridiculous.

name one depth player who is up to it

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,186]

Just now, Elegt said:

name one depth player who is up to it

Define 'up to it'??

 

Do you mean capable of playing senior footy?

Getting a game at another club?

Being a star of the competition?

[beelzebub 22,269]

9 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Finishing top four in the VFL suggests that our depth is not as bad as you claim when compared to other AFL clubs.  

Actually.. says no such thing for mine. Says we've got a handy VFL level group among our senior list. Does SFA for us at AFL level and when pitted against a side with more able VFL players bolstered by AFL players we aren't much chop .

All in all our AFL level depth is rather thin.

[Elegt 872]

5 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Define 'up to it'??

 

Do you mean capable of playing senior footy?

Getting a game at another club?

Being a star of the competition?

name someone who would contribute consistently in case of injury in a team who could win a flag 

[Sir Why You Little 34,711]

4 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Define 'up to it'??

 

Do you mean capable of playing senior footy?

Getting a game at another club?

Being a star of the competition?

It's all 3 plus a hard attitude. 

How often does the MFC let Multiple Goals get kicked against us?

we just saw another 7 straight...

it happens way too often. 

I am beginning to think Goodwins A Gameplan is very ordinary when serious pressure is applied. 

[Elegt 872]

37 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Finishing top four in the VFL suggests that our depth is not as bad as you claim when compared to other AFL clubs.  It was the form of our better players, not our depth, that cost us a finals berth.

 

Suggesting that developing young players 'aren't up to it' is ridiculous.

this has been the mfc mentality for far too long 

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,186]

25 minutes ago, Elegt said:

name someone who would contribute consistently in case of injury in a team who could win a flag 

Ok... to do this we need to establish who is in the best 22 - everyone outside of that is depth.

 

JETTA               O.McDONALD             HIBBERD

HUNT                T.McDONALD              SALEM

LEWIS                JONES                         MELKSHAM

PETRACCA       HOGAN                        WATTS

GARTLETT        PEDERSEN                  NEAL-BULLEN

GAWN                VINEY                          OLIVER

Int.     BRAYSHAW           HANNAN           VINCE            HARMES

 

So after that, who on the list could make a contribution to rival recent premiership players such as: Dunkley, Mclean, Hambling, Schoenmakers, Duryea, Simpkin, Bailey, Pyke, Morton, Christensen, Hunt and West...

 

Frost.

Stretch.

Kent (if he gets fit).

vandenBerg.

Bugg.

I'd take these players over those premiership luminaries mentioned above.  Are they champions?  No.  Could they contribute to a well coached and drilled best 21... yes.

 

In addition, it's far too early to make any call on:

J.Smith (has looked very good at times)

King 

Weideman

McKenna 

Johnstone

Maynard

Keilty

T.Smith

Filipovic

 

Is there another clubs depth we should be particularly envious of outside of GWS????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Elegt 872]

20 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Ok... to do this we need to establish who is in the best 22 - everyone outside of that is depth.

 

JETTA               O.McDONALD             HIBBERD

HUNT                T.McDONALD              SALEM

LEWIS                JONES                         MELKSHAM

PETRACCA       HOGAN                        WATTS

GARTLETT        PEDERSEN                  NEAL-BULLEN

GAWN                VINEY                          OLIVER

Int.     BRAYSHAW           HANNAN           VINCE            HARMES

 

So after that, who on the list could make a contribution to rival recent premiership players such as: Dunkley, Mclean, Hambling, Schoenmakers, Duryea, Simpkin, Bailey, Pyke, Morton, Christensen, Hunt and West...

 

Frost.

Stretch.

Kent (if he gets fit).

vandenBerg.

Bugg.

I'd take these players over those premiership luminaries mentioned above.  Are they champions?  No.  Could they contribute to a well coached and drilled best 21... yes.

 

In addition, it's far too early to make any call on:

J.Smith (has looked very good at times)

King 

Weideman

McKenna 

Johnstone

Maynard

Keilty

T.Smith

Filipovic

 

Is there another clubs depth we should be particularly envious of outside of GWS????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

bugg and Kent lol, very funnt

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,186]

1 minute ago, Elegt said:

bugg and Kent lol, very funnt

You asked for one... I gave you five.

 

[Elegt 872]

6 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

You asked for one... I gave you five.

 

and I'd like to disagree with you

next year I don't think these players are best 22 standard 

Vince, Salem, Oscar McDonald

hopefully we trade hard and fix those holes 

I think you're way too overconfident of our list 

[Pennant St Dee 11,367]

This is laughable and all about emotions.  Ffs many were talking up our depth a month ago.

A week is a long time in football let alone 6 months.

The usual suspects with blanket character assassinations 

Trolls posing as MFC supporters.

Not a lot of tweaking to do half a dozen and we're up and running.

 

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,186]

3 minutes ago, Elegt said:

and I'd like to disagree with you

next year I don't think these players are best 22 standard 

Vince, Salem, Oscar McDonald

hopefully we trade hard and fix those holes 

I think you're way too overconfident of our list 

I'm not sure you know what depth is...

No one expects every player on the list to be a world beater.  You claimed not a single player outside of our best 22 could contribute to a premiership win.  That is simply not the case.

You've bumped your own thread and only contributed sweeping generalisations that 'none of them are up to it'.  This again is one dimensional and narrow minded.

Im not saying our depth is great- just that there are a number of players who could contribute if needed.  There's a list in my post of recent premiership players who are by no means great players, but they contributed to a flag.

[Elegt 872]

9 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I'm not sure you know what depth is...

No one expects every player on the list to be a world beater.  You claimed not a single player outside of our best 22 could contribute to a premiership win.  That is simply not the case.

You've bumped your own thread and only contributed sweeping generalisations that 'none of them are up to it'.  This again is one dimensional and narrow minded.

Im not saying our depth is great- just that there are a number of players who could contribute if needed.  There's a list in my post of recent premiership players who are by no means great players, but they contributed to a flag.

we will never win a flag with the current standard of depth...