2 minutes ago, binman said:

As i said you make a good point about Frost, particularly about his potential trade value. But my solution would be to keep Frost. Partly because i am not totally convinced you can't have all of Tom McDonald, Oscar McDonald, Frost, Lever, and Joel Smith at the club and perhaps even in the same side, particularly if Smith goes to the midfield which i suspect he might.

But i guess the main reason my solution would be to keep Frost is i hate it when any player is forced out of the club. Unless they are a peanut. 

How about in attempt to win a flag and build a dynasty ?

So you think all of Hibberd, Jetta, Hunt, Frost, Joel Smith, the McDonalds, and Lever can all play in the same side ? 

All play their best footy in defence.  All are best behind the ball, which is an easier position to play.  And all won't fit.

Also, how do you plan on securing both Lever and Jones if it was feasible to do so.  It's a hypothetical, but one the club would love to be in a position to enact.

Hogan, Weideman, and Watts are the future in the forward-line.  Trying to convert Tom into a forward is unnecessary and not his best position.  And he won't be needed there.

Frost is out of contract at the end of the year and has put talks on hold - I'm sure we want to sign him up again but I suspect he'll test himself on the open market and given his improvement this year and further potential upside, I'd say there would be quite a few suitors.  Will be interesting to see how much we're prepared to pay to keep him, particularly if we're somehow able to nab Lever.  

13 minutes ago, Watts Jurrah Dunn? said:

Perhaps Tom McDonald would play the Blicavs big-bodied midfielder role or the hard running, strong marking winger role Riewoldt has played over the past few years.  He's got the tank, and certainly his kicking isn't as much of a liability if they get him up the ground.

I don't see it at all.

25 minutes ago, Glenn Molloy said:

Frost is out of contract at the end of the year and has put talks on hold - I'm sure we want to sign him up again but I suspect he'll test himself on the open market and given his improvement this year and further potential upside, I'd say there would be quite a few suitors.  Will be interesting to see how much we're prepared to pay to keep him, particularly if we're somehow able to nab Lever.  

If I was in Frosts boots and was clearly aware of the talk around Lever, I would also put contract talks on hold.

Im sure his manager would be talking with other managers and the delay has sound logic behind it.

44 minutes ago, ProDee said:

How about in attempt to win a flag and build a dynasty ?

So you think all of Hibberd, Jetta, Hunt, Frost, Joel Smith, the McDonalds, and Lever can all play in the same side ? 

All play their best footy in defence.  All are best behind the ball, which is an easier position to play.  And all won't fit.

Also, how do you plan on securing both Lever and Jones if it was feasible to do so.  It's a hypothetical, but one the club would love to be in a position to enact.

Hogan, Weideman, and Watts are the future in the forward-line.  Trying to convert Tom into a forward is unnecessary and not his best position.  And he won't be needed there.

Well PD i am obviously more a romantic than you. good thing it is not my call.

A couple of things though. I am not as keen as some on Jones.

Also as i said i think Smith will end up a midfielder. Probably sooner rather than later. Perfect for that role i reckon. Yes he has played down back thus far but it is early days for his career. I can see him and Maynard being a pretty formidable combination in the middle with their strength, size and basketball honed quick and hands and vision.  

Lets say i'm right. A back six of Hibberd, Jetta,  Frost, the McDonalds, and Lever looks pretty damn good. That allows Hunt to go to the wing, which i reckon is an ideal postion for him as he can still use his run and dash, we will still get great meters gained from him, he ca add a linking up element to his game and he becomes more of an offensive threat. Simples

14 minutes ago, binman said:

Well PD i am obviously more a romantic than you. good thing it is not my call.

A couple of things though. I am not as keen as some on Jones.

Also as i said i think Smith will end up a midfielder. Probably sooner rather than later. Perfect for that role i reckon. Yes he has played down back thus far but it is early days for his career. I can see him and Maynard being a pretty formidable combination in the middle with their strength, size and basketball honed quick and hands and vision.  

Lets say i'm right. A back six of Hibberd, Jetta,  Frost, the McDonalds, and Lever looks pretty damn good. That allows Hunt to go to the wing, which i reckon is an ideal postion for him as he can still use his run and dash, we will still get great meters gained from him, he ca add a linking up element to his game and he becomes more of an offensive threat. Simples

No worries.  I like to argue logically and dispassionately and I realise that's a bridge too far for most supporters.

Thankfully, our list management committee will work through scenarios like me and not like you.

Btw, there is room for sentiment, but for a player like Frost, who is already at his second club, and with obvious deficiencies in his game, he becomes expendable for the greater good.

As for Smith becoming a mid ?  I haven't seen enough, but on early viewings I don't agree.  He's never trained as a mid and he's been developed as a back.  He's getting into the 22 as a back.  It's nothing more than wishful thinking to assume he'll become a mid.  When I was at a supporters forum with Brendan McCartney in October 2016 he was asked for his best longterm team.  He slotted Joel Smith into a back pocket.  They rate him highly as a courageous and fast line breaking defender. 

As for Jones ?  Perhaps you're not as keen, because you're a hoarder.  It's easier to pass on Jones if you don't want to give up what you've got.

But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what you or I think, what if the club is keen on Jones ?  What if the club is keen on Lever ?

How do YOU get those deals done ?

7 minutes ago, ProDee said:

No worries.  I like to argue logically and dispassionately and I realise that's a bridge too far for most supporters.

Thankfully, our list management committee will work through scenarios like me and not like you.

Btw, there is room for sentiment, but for a player like Frost, who is already at his second club, and with obvious deficiencies in his game, he becomes expendable for the greater good.

As for Smith becoming a mid ?  I haven't seen enough, but on early viewings I don't agree.  He's never trained as a mid and he's been developed as a back.  He's getting into the 22 as a back.  It's nothing more than wishful thinking to assume he'll become a mid.  When I was at a supporters forum with Brendan McCartney in October 2016 he was asked for his best longterm team.  He slotted Joel Smith into a back pocket.  They rate him highly as a courageous and fast line breaking defender. 

As for Jones ?  Perhaps you're not as keen, because you're a hoarder.  It's easier to pass on Jones if you don't want to give up what you've got.

But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what you or I think, what if the club is keen on Jones ?  What if the club is keen on Lever ?

How do YOU get those deals done ?

Leaving aside my romantism pd i think i put forward a pretty reasonable argument about how you could fit lever in without losing frost. As i said it is eary days for smith in his career so plenty of time to develop the skills to go into the midfield.

If i was in charge and the club wanted lever and jones in i would consider trading frost for sure. As you say he will have some trade value, but i suspect only second round. We will need a higher draft pick to make jones and lever happen. For that reason i would look at brayshaw, though that would be robbing peter to pay paul a bit. Id definetly look at kent, though he woud need to be part of a package deal to have any value - perhaps with jkh or wirh our first draft pick. We also can trade our first draft pick and one from next year as a package. Wagner might come into the conversation as part of a package also.

How do we get Jake Lever?  Cue the 'second round pick and ANB' calls from most supporters.

I'd love him at the club but I can't see him leaving at this stage.  The Crows do have a history of losing key defenders, though that's clutching at straws a little.

7 minutes ago, binman said:

Leaving aside my romantism pd i think i put forward a pretty reasonable argument about how you could fit lever in without losing frost. As i said it is eary days for smith in his career so plenty of time to develop the skills to go into the midfield.

If i was in charge and the club wanted lever and jones in i would consider trading frost for sure. As you say he will have some trade value, but i suspect only second round. We will need a higher draft pick to make jones and lever happen. For that reason i would look at brayshaw, though that would be robbing peter to pay paul a bit. Id definetly look at kent, though he woud need to be part of a package deal to have any value - perhaps with jkh or wirh our first draft pick. We also can trade our first draft pick and one from next year as a package. Wagner might come into the conversation as part of a package also.

You put an argument, but I gave it short shrift.  You said, "A back six of Hibberd, Jetta,  Frost, the McDonalds, and Lever looks pretty damn good."  

I don't see a back 6 that includes 194cm, 194cm, 195cm and 197cm.  It's way too tall.  I don't see a back 6 with the McDonalds and Frost by themselves let alone them with the acquisition of Lever.  It would be diabolical.  And wouldn't happen.

The McDonalds and Frost are suspect kicks under pressure.  Imo, you can't have the three of them in the back-line together.  Kicking in the back half is super important.

I can see a back 6 that includes Hibberd, Hunt, Jetta, the McDonalds and Lever.  That works for me.  We often play a 7 man defence, so fitting Smith in would also work.

If and I know it's a big if and probably unlikely, but if Lever came to the club I see Frost as the logical player to make way.  Hunt and Smith, who is just as fast, more than make up for what Frost brings to the table.

11 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

How do we get Jake Lever?  Cue the 'second round pick and ANB' calls from most supporters.

I'd love him at the club but I can't see him leaving at this stage.  The Crows do have a history of losing key defenders, though that's clutching at straws a little.

ANB and Trenners... we keep our 2nd pick 

whatever it takes to get him. if we can leverage (pun intended) with Carlton to get Gibbs to the crows and Lever to us with some draft picks and crumbs going between - will cost us our first rounder and 1 or 2 of Frost/one of our abundant mids. and it will be worth it. Mind you they will ask for Petracca and want Hunt thrown in to sweeten it for them!

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

You put an argument, but I gave it short shrift.  You said, "A back six of Hibberd, Jetta,  Frost, the McDonalds, and Lever looks pretty damn good."  

I don't see a back 6 that includes 194cm, 194cm, 195cm and 197cm.  It's way too tall.  I don't see a back 6 with the McDonalds and Frost by themselves let alone them with the acquisition of Lever.  It would be diabolical.  And wouldn't happen.

 

Blimey PD. Because you gave my argument 'short shrift' does not make my argument unreasonable. It only means you disagree with the argument. You have been known to be wrong PD. Jack Watts says hello. 

And i have been known to be right. 

As i have said i don't think the back six would be too tall because of how athletic Frost and Lever are. But you don't agree. That's ok

17 minutes ago, binman said:

i don't think the back six would be too tall because of how athletic Frost and Lever are. But you don't agree. That's ok

I couldn't disagree more.  It would be a hopeless structure.

I also said you can't have the kicking skills of the McDonalds and Frost together coming out of the backline.

Let's not keep going around in circles.  

Clearly our footy views are polar opposite.

Edited July 8, 20177 yr by ProDee

In some regards perhaps. 

For exampke I thought watts would play all seaon last year. You didnt

And more recently you were on the omac is not up to it bandwagon, arguing pedo would be the prefered option once all the tall came back (a view i see you have softened on i see). I disagreed. On both counts.

I think ive got some some credits in the bank on the argument front with you PD. 

4 minutes ago, binman said:

In some regards perhaps. 

For exampke I thought watts would play all seaon last year. You didnt

And more recently you were on the omac is not up to it bandwagon, arguing pedo would be the prefered option once all the tall came back (a view i see you have softened on i see). I disagreed. On both counts.

I think ive got some some credits in the bank on the argument front with you PD. 

Oscar McDonald wasn't up to it, which is why he was dropped.

I've not overly complained about them getting games into him.  And he's improved as a result.  I'm for getting games into young developing players, which is why I've been for getting games into Weideman.

Pedersen has been fantastic.  I still don't rate him as a stay at home key forward and I suspect the club doesn't either.  It will be interesting to see how his role develops for the remaining of the year.

Watts finally pulled his finger out, which only vindicated my views of his hopeless years.  Even then, I believe he has much more to give.

Here's the thing and perhaps where we differ, I'm not fussed who rates my opinion or doesn't rate my opinion.  Who cares ?

12 hours ago, FireInTheBelly said:

Yes that's all well and good, but can you run me by your trade scenarios that see us gaining those 2 stars?

Packaging up Stretch, Kent and JKH of course.

27 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Packaging up Stretch, Kent and JKH of course.

Fair enough then. Don't even need to trade ANB, cool.

17 minutes ago, FireInTheBelly said:

Fair enough then. Don't even need to trade ANB, cool.

We need to retain ANB to satisfy the Bulldogs in a trade for Bontempelli next year.

18 hours ago, Abe said:

I'd up the offer to a mil a year over 6-7. He's a gun and a great young leader. 

800k will be about right for a quality KPD like Lever.

He will stay or go, but money won't be the driver. It will be part of the story.

If he goes I would think we are in a good position, he knows we wanted him at draft time and he knows we have a future.

Interesting at draft time there was also talk of Lever being a tall mid...he did a bit of work with his TAC cup team working with the mids to round out his game as he missed the year with a knee.

Also his kicking was supposed to be his weakness. Seems to have fixed that.

7 hours ago, ProDee said:

You put an argument, but I gave it short shrift.  You said, "A back six of Hibberd, Jetta,  Frost, the McDonalds, and Lever looks pretty damn good."  

I don't see a back 6 that includes 194cm, 194cm, 195cm and 197cm.  It's way too tall.  I don't see a back 6 with the McDonalds and Frost by themselves let alone them with the acquisition of Lever.  It would be diabolical.  And wouldn't happen.

The McDonalds and Frost are suspect kicks under pressure.  Imo, you can't have the three of them in the back-line together.  Kicking in the back half is super important.

I can see a back 6 that includes Hibberd, Hunt, Jetta, the McDonalds and Lever.  That works for me.  We often play a 7 man defence, so fitting Smith in would also work.

If and I know it's a big if and probably unlikely, but if Lever came to the club I see Frost as the logical player to make way.  Hunt and Smith, who is just as fast, more than make up for what Frost brings to the table.

 

I can see that Lever will shuffle around our defensive priorities, but what about the fact that TMAC has shown in the past month that we don't need a ruck/fwd or CHF as an imediate priority with Weideman 2 years away from being an effective CHF? Maybe LEVER is the insurance on Weidemann for the next 2 years as 1 of TMAC/FROST or OMAC will play forward ? If Weideman (God Forbid) ends up a dud, then we'd have a hole at CHF that would take TMAC away from our defence permanently. Assuming Pederson is 2 years from retirement. So recruiting Lever leaves our defence 1 player too tall, but it also allows our forward line 1 tall swingman forward. I don't have faith in Wiedeman and i dont have faith in recruiting Tippett. So recruit Lever and keep TMAC/PEDO forward. If Garland is depth this year, why can't Frost/Omac be a depth player that waits in the wings for an injury? Hogan,Watts, Pedo forward TMAC,LEVER & OMAC or FROST.  Pedo goes down with injury and you move a defender back into the side and push tmac forward.

OUr defensive stocks won't remain injury free next year now that this year they've been injury free. It's karma 

Edited July 8, 20177 yr by DominatrixTyson

46 minutes ago, DominatrixTyson said:

 

I can see that Lever will shuffle around our defensive priorities, but what about the fact that TMAC has shown in the past month that we don't need a ruck/fwd or CHF as an imediate priority with Weideman 2 years away from being an effective CHF? Maybe LEVER is the insurance on Weidemann for the next 2 years as 1 of TMAC/FROST or OMAC will play forward ? If Weideman (God Forbid) ends up a dud, then we'd have a hole at CHF that would take TMAC away from our defence permanently. Assuming Pederson is 2 years from retirement. So recruiting Lever leaves our defence 1 player too tall, but it also allows our forward line 1 tall swingman forward. I don't have faith in Wiedeman and i dont have faith in recruiting Tippett. So recruit Lever and keep TMAC/PEDO forward. If Garland is depth this year, why can't Frost/Omac be a depth player that waits in the wings for an injury? Hogan,Watts, Pedo forward TMAC,LEVER & OMAC or FROST.  Pedo goes down with injury and you move a defender back into the side and push tmac forward.

OUr defensive stocks won't remain injury free next year now that this year they've been injury free. It's karma 

OK mate.

On 08/07/2017 at 1:46 PM, ProDee said:

OK mate.

TMac another dominant display forward today, Looks like he could be holding down that spot until the time Wiedeman is ready. Hence the desperate need for Lever and Frost down back. (Omac absolutely lost at sea down back today)

Edited July 9, 20177 yr by DominatrixTyson

Will be great this weekend to see Tom Mac v Lever Should be a great duel

Hope Tom makes him look like aTurkey

Massive rumor in Little old Adelaide is that Jake Lever's missus has not renewed her teaching contract at a prominent Adelaide College was offered a further and did not renew. 

Wow... watch this space fellow Dees.

Edited July 10, 20177 yr by Win4theAges

Sorry forgot to add Her contract finished up on Friday just gone.

according to my crows supporting cousin who is a teacher in sa - teaching contracts for 2018 have not been offered as yet

might be different for a private school of course