31 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Do you think Essendon have some ingenious game-plan that Melbourne can't crack, or perhaps they just had a bad day ?

And seemingly we now can't beat Carlton because of yesterday ?  I do find it amusing when people come up with absolutes based on such a small sample size.  If I were you I wouldn't fret over Carlton or Essendon and the likelihood of future success over them. 

Clearly the Saints are a different issue. But it's not completely surprising that a very young side has had trouble against a more seasoned side that still has grand final players in good form, i.e. Riewoldt, Montagna, Fisher, Dempster and Gilbert.  

But yes, we need more outside speed and class against St.Kilda and other clubs.  No-one denies we're a work in progress. 

Hogan, Viney, Tyson, Oliver, Brayshaw, Petracca, Gawn, the McDonalds, Salem, Hunt, Stretch, Frost, Weideman and Kent are a core group of 15 x '24 and under' that just about any club in the league would salivate over. 

Hopefully Melksham and Hibberd can add to the group.

Outside speed is often the last piece of the puzzle.  Maybe it's Hunt, or maybe it will come through the trade draft.  And none of our future inside grunt are close to reaching their peak.

Does everyone forget that we had 66 inside 50's to the Eagle's 37 four weeks ago or do they only see an 'L' in the win/loss column ?

I'm super excited by where this group can go, but it will take another 3 years to develop the maturity to challenge.  And in that time there will be performances that leave you scratching your head.  

I'm surprised people are surprised. 

              Played

2008  Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 1

2009 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 2 

2010 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 1

2011 Blues Lost 2 Saints Lost 1

2012 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 2

2013 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 1

2014 Blues Won 1 Saints Lost 1

2015 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 2

2016 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 2

In the last 9 years we have beaten Carlton once and the Saints not even once and at the same time we have lost to them 19 times and you don't think there's a problem?

17 minutes ago, Dante said:

              Played

2008  Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 1

2009 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 2 

2010 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 1

2011 Blues Lost 2 Saints Lost 1

2012 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 2

2013 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 1

2014 Blues Won 1 Saints Lost 1

2015 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 2

2016 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 2

In the last 9 years we have beaten Carlton once and the Saints not even once and at the same time we have lost to them 19 times and you don't think there's a problem?

Oh my God that is so bad to see it written like that

no wonder they came out spitting in the first Q

and we just took it up the .... again...

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Oh my God that is so bad to see it written like that

no wonder they came out spitting in the first Q

and we just took it up the .... again...

As I said, if we can't beat the Saints and Blues and we've let a few to the Scum as well, we will always be middle of the road.

i recall the Hawthorn games where we were beaten every time we played them and you could be confused for thinking the game you were watching was a replay of the game the year before. 

I was at the Carlton game last year and it was so much like the game on the weekend, it was all over after 5 minutes.

We have to change the way we approach the Saints and Blues games and also, we cannot afford to get beaten but a club like Essendon.

6 minutes ago, Dante said:

As I said, if we can't beat the Saints and Blues and we've let a few to the Scum as well, we will always be middle of the road.

i recall the Hawthorn games where we were beaten every time we played them and you could be confused for thinking the game you were watching was a replay of the game the year before. 

I was at the Carlton game last year and it was so much like the game on the weekend, it was all over after 5 minutes.

We have to change the way we approach the Saints and Blues games and also, we cannot afford to get beaten but a club like Essendon.

Totally agree. Our Leadership in absolute crucial games when we can make the jump has been crap, non existent. 

4 goals to 1 five minutes in Game Over. 

and Supporters are making excuses again.....

People forget that many of our losses to St Kilda are due to playing at Etihad. Not all but certainly recently. 

We don't play Etihad well. Luckily very few finals are played there. But it's obviously something we need to address. 

 

1 hour ago, Dante said:

              Played

2008  Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 1

2009 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 2 

2010 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 1

2011 Blues Lost 2 Saints Lost 1

2012 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 2

2013 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 1

2014 Blues Won 1 Saints Lost 1

2015 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 2

2016 Blues Lost 1 Saints Lost 2

In the last 9 years we have beaten Carlton once and the Saints not even once and at the same time we have lost to them 19 times and you don't think there's a problem?

What a pointless exercise.  Hope it didn't take long.

You do realise that we've been Fitzroyesque during this period.  You do realise that most of our current players didn't play in most of those games.

For example, you do realise that just two players that lined up yesterday played in "186" ?  Two.

You do realise that our game-plan and ball movement is completely different to Roos' first two years ?  You do realise it will be further honed again during the off-season and that our quality young mids will have another preseason under their belt.

Highlighting losses dating back to 2010 is one of the more pointless things I've seen.

Worrying about losses to Carlton, Essendon and St.Kilda is sweating the small stuff.  In fact, it's irrelevant.

Melbourne lost to Hawthorn by 105 points last year and won this year.  That's far more relevant than any loss you've just listed.

11 minutes ago, Jaded said:

People forget that many of our losses to St Kilda are due to playing at Etihad. Not all but certainly recently. 

We don't play Etihad well. Luckily very few finals are played there. But it's obviously something we need to address. 

 

Then we should learn to.

We could, quite conceivably, play 4 gams a year there, so do we just give up on them? Do the players only put in if they agree with the venue and opponent?

4 minutes ago, ProDee said:

What a pointless exercise.  Hope it didn't take long.

You do realise that we've been Fitzroyesque during this period.  You do realise that most of our current players didn't play in most of those games.

For example, you do realise that just two players that lined up yesterday played in "186" ?  Two.

You do realise that our game-plan and ball movement is completely different to Roos' first two years ?  You do realise it will be further honed again during the off-season and that our quality young mids will have another preseason under their belt.

Highlighting losses dating back to 2010 is one of the more pointless things I've seen.

Worrying about losses to Carlton, Essendon and St.Kilda is sweating the small stuff.  In fact, it's irrelevant.

Melbourne lost to Hawthorn by 105 points last year and won this year.  That's far more relevant than any loss you've just listed.

Do you realise that the sample you rejected before included all the players we have now? Nought and 8 over the last two years and nought and 4 this year, what does that say to you? WTF do you want?

You asked for a bigger sample and I gave it to you, sorry it doesn't fit in to your argument.

Of course we've improved and of course we have better ball movement, but it obviously doesn't work against some sides.

Edited August 22, 20168 yr by Dante

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

Do you think Essendon have some ingenious game-plan that Melbourne can't crack, or perhaps they just had a bad day ?

And seemingly we now can't beat Carlton because of yesterday ?  I do find it amusing when people come up with absolutes based on such a small sample size.  If I were you I wouldn't fret over Carlton or Essendon and the likelihood of future success over them. 

Clearly the Saints are a different issue. But it's not completely surprising that a very young side has had trouble against a more seasoned side that still has grand final players in good form, i.e. Riewoldt, Montagna, Fisher, Dempster and Gilbert.  

But yes, we need more outside speed and class against St.Kilda and other clubs.  No-one denies we're a work in progress. 

Hogan, Viney, Tyson, Oliver, Brayshaw, Petracca, Gawn, the McDonalds, Salem, Hunt, Stretch, Frost, Weideman and Kent are a core group of 15 x '24 and under' that just about any club in the league would salivate over. 

Hopefully Melksham and Hibberd can add to the group.

Outside speed is often the last piece of the puzzle.  Maybe it's Hunt, or maybe it will come through the trade draft.  And none of our future inside grunt are close to reaching their peak.

Does everyone forget that we had 66 inside 50's to the Eagle's 37 four weeks ago or do they only see an 'L' in the win/loss column ?

I'm super excited by where this group can go, but it will take another 3 years to develop the maturity to challenge.  And in that time there will be performances that leave you scratching your head.  

I'm surprised people are surprised. 

We haven't beaten Essendon, Carlton or the Saints for two years. These are teams we should be able to beat no matter how you want to dress it up.

1 minute ago, Dante said:

Do you realise that the sample you rejected before included all the players we have now? Nought and 8 over the last two years and nought and 4 this year, what does that say to you? WTF do you want?

You asked for a bigger sample and I gave it to you, sorry it doesn't fit in to your argument.

You think you needed to give me a sample of Saints games when I know we haven't beaten them since 2006 ?  Since good ol Brock sorry Brick McLean had that great second half which resulted in Thomas' sacking.  You needed to list those losses for me ?

Look mate, you're concerned and I'm not.  We have the youngest and most inexperienced team in the competition that has come from 2 wins and 54% in 2013 to 10 wins and over 100%.  Losses to the Saints and Carlton mean nothing to me,  They're irrelevant.  Especially any loss prior to 2015.

But knock yourself out and have a pity party.  Just don't bother inviting me.

1 minute ago, jnrmac said:

We haven't beaten Essendon, Carlton or the Saints for two years. These are teams we should be able to beat no matter how you want to dress it up.

The sky is falling. 

Hate to break the news to you, but we haven't been very good.

3 minutes ago, ProDee said:

You think you needed to give me a sample of Saints games when I know we haven't beaten them since 2006 ?  Since good ol Brock sorry Brick McLean had that great second half which resulted in Thomas' sacking.  You needed to list those losses for me ?

Look mate, you're concerned and I'm not.  We have the youngest and most inexperienced team in the competition that has come from 2 wins and 54% in 2013 to 10 wins and over 100%.  Losses to the Saints and Carlton mean nothing to me,  They're irrelevant.  Especially any loss prior to 2015.

But knock yourself out and have a pity party.  Just don't bother inviting me.

Not a pity party at all, I'm only concerned that the coaching staff address the issues we seem to have with certain clubs, I go to most of those games expecting to lose and they never let me down. The Saints finished on top of us this year and that's only because we let them beat us both times and we let a bunch of mis fits at Essendon beat us which, along with the Debacle on Sunday, kept us out of the finals.

You may not be concerned now, but will you be if we get done by the same three sides next year?

2 minutes ago, Dante said:

Not a pity party at all, I'm only concerned that the coaching staff address the issues we seem to have with certain clubs, I go to most of those games expecting to lose and they never let me down. The Saints finished on top of us this year and that's only because we let them beat us both times and we let a bunch of mis fits at Essendon beat us which, along with the Debacle on Sunday, kept us out of the finals.

You may not be concerned now, but will you be if we get done by the same three sides next year?

I'll judge it in context at the time.  I wouldn't swap our list for either of theirs, but that's not to say we're immune to a loss - even next year.  Geelong will finish top 4 and Collingwood and Carlton beat them in consecutive weeks this year.  

I have great faith in the midfield we're developing and loving the new ball movement.  

But no, I don't share your concern about "certain clubs".  It's merely a reflection of where we're at in our young development cycle.

13 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

We haven't beaten Essendon, Carlton or the Saints for two years. These are teams we should be able to beat no matter how you want to dress it up.

Essendon and Carlton maybe but i dont think you are giving the Saints enough credit, when they are on they have shown as much if not more than us this year.

I heard today that Goodwin addressed the players after the game and will probably do the talking this week as well. The thought may have been that with everyone knowing Roos is going, Goodwin may have been more effective in the post match.

You can bet that part of the talk this week, will be about sending Roos off in a good manner.

I expect a better showing this week.

8 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I heard today that Goodwin addressed the players after the game and will probably do the talking this week as well. The thought may have been that with everyone knowing Roos is going, Goodwin may have been more effective in the post match.

You can bet that part of the talk this week, will be about sending Roos off in a good manner.

I expect a better showing this week.

We've backed up well from our disappointing performances this year, not all wins but good results, and that can be a good sign post to improved culture

Essendon - North

St.Kilda - Gold Coast away

Port - Hawthorn

Sydney - Adelaide

St.Kilda - West Coast

Gold Coast home - Hawthorn

Hopefully we can add

Carlton - Geelong

 

3 hours ago, ProDee said:

So what ?  I thought we would.  Carlton are rubbish.

Do you get every tip right ?

I'm just saying that you weren't the only one who thought that way so the disappointment from Melbourne supporters is understandable. Not having a dig at you.

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

The sky is falling. 

Hate to break the news to you, but we haven't been very good.

That is a pretty supercilious comment. News Flash to know-all: Fairly obvious we should be able to beat the teams below or around us on the ladder.

IMO Carlton really did their homework on some of our losses in preparation for the game.

Looked like they watched the Swans game and how hard their midfield hit us and highlighted our deficiencies in that area. Our midfield was no where near strong enough that day .

Looked like they also watched the St.Kilda games where Max's influence was dinted ( third man up etc)

Seemed to me they really took us on with a fierce ''swans like'' attack  at the footy early and we fell back into bad, stepping back ,watching and non involvement  habits.

Just wished we had a Selwood to stop the rot after the first two goals but nup, the goals just kept coming.

Terrible  from those involved at the early centre bounces and glad we have Geelong this week to focus on them again.

All very well to say we did ok against Hawthorn/Port Adelaide ,but you have to show up every week, particularly in such an important game.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

I heard today that Goodwin addressed the players after the game and will probably do the talking this week as well. The thought may have been that with everyone knowing Roos is going, Goodwin may have been more effective in the post match.

You can bet that part of the talk this week, will be about sending Roos off in a good manner.

I expect a better showing this week.

But will you get one Mr. Leg?

Geelong at Geelong when they have little to play for Hmm I doubt it.

10 minutes ago, Dockett 32 said:

IMO Carlton really did their homework on some of our losses in preparation for the game.

Looked like they watched the Swans game and how hard their midfield hit us and highlighted our deficiencies in that area. Our midfield was no where near strong enough that day .

Looked like they also watched the St.Kilda games where Max's influence was dinted ( third man up etc)

Seemed to me they really took us on with a fierce ''swans like'' attack  at the footy early and we fell back into bad, stepping back ,watching and non involvement  habits.

Just wished we had a Selwood to stop the rot after the first two goals but nup, the goals just kept coming.

Terrible  from those involved at the early centre bounces and glad we have Geelong this week to focus on them again.

All very well to say we did ok against Hawthorn/Port Adelaide ,but you have to show up every week, particularly in such an important game.

 

 

 

And this is a team that had lost eight on end Dockett.

Whatever way you look at it we were terrible.

This loss was almost our worst for the year.

Just now, old dee said:

And this is a team that had lost eight on end Dockett.

Whatever way you look at it we were terrible.

This loss was almost our worst for the year.

Actually it was 9 losses on end and they must have done their homework on us last year because they beat us then too. Sorry and the year before and ...........

They don't need to do their homework they know us and it all falls in to place, they have our measure.

I like a lot of other supporters started believing our own BS.

Quite obviously we are still some ways off a finals team.

However I started the year believing that ten wins would be a good result for the year and we have achieved that level.

Admittedly losing a couple of games I thought that we certainties and winning a couple I thought we would lose.

I am not unhappy with the total result for 2016.

However I am unhappy that on a number of occasions this year IMO We did not pick the team with the best chance of winning.

Now some will say we are giving players games to get them used to the game at AFL level which I guess is acceptable if in 2017 those players help produce wins.

But after a decade of crap.

I BLOODY HATE LOSING to crap like Essendrug and Carlton.

End of rant.

21 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

It really is tempting Moon but I will be the bigger man and let the Carlton followers enjoy their victory. I will however find a fresh dog turd and smear a little under the door handles of their cars. 

[censored] you Carlton and your stupid man buns.

Here, here! Never a more welcome intention could be uttered!

5 minutes ago, old dee said:

I like a lot of other supporters started believing our own BS.

Quite obviously we are still some ways off a finals team.

However I started the year believing that ten wins would be a good result for the year and we have achieved that level.

Admittedly losing a couple of games I thought that we certainties and winning a couple I thought we would lose.

I am not unhappy with the total result for 2016.

However I am unhappy that on a number of occasions this year IMO We did not pick the team with the best chance of winning.

Now some will say we are giving players games to get them used to the game at AFL level which I guess is acceptable if in 2017 those players help produce wins.

But after a decade of crap.

I BLOODY HATE LOSING to crap like Essendrug and Carlton.

End of rant.

That is true, but where do we draw the line and lose games we should win, because we choose players that are not ready over those that can help the club improve its win loss ratio?

There are some players that should have been left in the VFL for the year and some players that have been at Casey for most of the year that should have been given some game time. Look at Spence, he is 27 this year, he has played 39 games in 8 years, surely they should either play him or move him on. Would there be any point in reprising his game last year against Geelong.