The OX slams 'crap' Demons.

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

20 minutes ago, stuie said:

Bit harsh I reckon. If you've been a supporter for 50 years you're not exactly looking for a quick fix like the lottery, you've stuck it out through some truly horrible times despite the fact you've never seen the one thing you want to see. A flag.

Seems harsh to say someone who's been a supporter for that long expects quick success all of a sudden.

Think everyone would know deep down we've got some good building blocks there, but geez you can't begrudge supporters of 5 decades some expectation that the club will finally deliver.

 

Sounds like a gen X or Y supporter. Not old and grizzly enough yet to wondering if there is enough time left to see a flag.

Edited July 21, 2016 by america de cali

[Nasher 33,617]

4 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Sounds like a gen X or Y supporter. Not old and grizzly enough yet to wondering if there is enough time left to see a flag.

I am 32 - that makes me Gen Y.

I'm willing to bet that if I'm unlucky enough to still be waiting for a flag when I'm 60 or whatever (let's hope not), I'm still able to objectively assess what's going on at the time in isolation, without conflating issues by raising the irrelevant past.  I guess we shall see.

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, Nasher said:

Gen Y.

I'm willing to bet that if I'm unlucky enough to still be waiting for a flag when I'm 60 or whatever (let's hope not), I'm still able to objectively assess what's going on at the time in isolation, without conflating issues by raising the irrelevant past.  

It's not irrelevant to those that have lived it though.

 

[Nasher 33,617]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

It's not irrelevant to those that have lived it though.

 

Nor will it be to me, when I'm 60.  That's my point.

Besides, it's not as if 32 years (or at least 25 if you discount the years I was too young to really care) is a short amount of time to wait.  

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

Nor will it be to me, when I'm 60.  That's my point.

Besides, it's not as if 32 years (or at least 25 if you discount the years I was too young to really care) is a short amount of time to wait.  

I hear ya, but double that 25 years , then double the frustration from that time and you can imagine what some of the codgers here are feeling.

It's almost the male version of the biological clock ticking...

[Redleg 41,428]

9 minutes ago, stuie said:

I hear ya, but double that 25 years , then double the frustration from that time and you can imagine what some of the codgers here are feeling.

It's almost the male version of the biological clock ticking...

I hear you brother.

[Sir Why You Little 37,125]

I was laughed at by kids at school in the 70's for being a Demon supporter

Now at 53 i am still laughed at, having seen 12 Whorethorn Flags and most other clubs clinch a few. 

I find it a galling when people tell me i am impatient for success. 

Last week really hurt. To play really well in the first Q (which proves they CAN do it), to then roll over and let the Aints kick 8 unanswered is just soul destroying when a spot in the 8 was up for grabs. 

There is not enough passion in the jumper or the club to hurt enough to make success become a standard.....

And next year we start a Rookie Coach..

[Redleg 41,428]

43 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

 

And next year we start a Rookie Coach..

Like Don Pike this year and Chris Scott in the Cats last Premiership. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,125]

47 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Like Don Pike this year and Chris Scott in the Cats last Premiership. 

Eternal hope....

[old dee 23,872]

4 hours ago, stuie said:

Bit harsh I reckon. If you've been a supporter for 50 years you're not exactly looking for a quick fix like the lottery, you've stuck it out through some truly horrible times despite the fact you've never seen the one thing you want to see. A flag.

Seems harsh to say someone who's been a supporter for that long expects quick success all of a sudden.

Think everyone would know deep down we've got some good building blocks there, but geez you can't begrudge supporters of 5 decades some expectation that the club will finally deliver.

 

Spot on stuie and I don't even need a flag after half a century I will be happy with a team that plays finals and finish in the top 4 in a few years time.

[old dee 23,872]

4 hours ago, Nasher said:

While I have some sympathy for people who have been waiting a long time for any kind of success, I find the I've been waiting 50 years for a flag! argument is a bit like complaining that you've bought a ticket in the last 1000 lotteries, and because of that, you should/deserve to win the jackpot this time.  False dawns, disappointment at previous failed attempts, and your ever diminishing patience don't change the fact that these things take time, especially when coming from where we have. Nor do they change the fact that this time looks very promising, for the reasons outlined by ProDee above.  

I do not agree with that at all Nasher.

First of all I don't believe it is fair the compare the two

Second I don't believe I am owed a flag at all. I sure as hell would like one however what I am saying is simply because this time the future looks promising does not mean it will pan out that way.

In half a century I have been in this spot a number of times for bugger all reward.

As recently as 2010 we all thought things looked rosy with a number of young high draft picks and what looked like a good administration.

We all know it ended in probably the biggest debacle in the MFC's history.

It is just frustrating for people like me who have been through half a century of false dawns.

I hope to God that when I am not around in 25 years time you are not facing the same problem.

 

 

[DeeZee 7,445]

I'm not really being laughed at anymore.

People seem to be taking notice and respecting what we are doing.

[Nasher 33,617]

15 minutes ago, old dee said:

I do not agree with that at all Nasher.

First of all I don't believe it is fair the compare the two

Second I don't believe I am owed a flag at all. I sure as hell would like one however what I am saying is simply because this time the future looks promising does not mean it will pan out that way.

In half a century I have been in this spot a number of times for bugger all reward.

As recently as 2010 we all thought things looked rosy with a number of young high draft picks and what looked like a good administration.

We all know it ended in probably the biggest debacle in the MFC's history.

It is just frustrating for people like me who have been through half a century of false dawns.

I hope to God that when I am not around in 25 years time you are not facing the same problem.

 

 

Judging by the responses I've had, I expressed my point very poorly. I don't begrudge people their long term frustration, of course that's understandable.

I suppose I see some of the complaints in this thread in a very similar light to the "we've been rebuilding for 10 years and we still suck" argument. I see it differently - I see this as the third consecutive rebuild. It's a subtle but important difference. As disappointing as the Bailey era was and disastrous as the Neeld era was, I don't allow my frustration from those failures to deliver cloud my judgement in assessing *this* era. This is where the lottery analogy comes in. The outcome of the lottery is independent of past lotteries; the outcome of this rebuild is independent of past rebuilds. This is something that is application to all generations of supporters. I didn't intend it as an attack on the older supporters.

Anyway, I don't feel like I'm making my point any clearer, so I'll stand down from this topic. I often wish I was as articulate as others that I read posts from.

[hemingway 7,631]

6 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

I'm not really being laughed at anymore.

People seem to be taking notice and respecting what we are doing.

Agree, it may not be where we want it to be, but it has changed for the better. Like OD and like a long lost lover I am desperate for success but philosophical that this may not mean a flag given the brand called AFL is a massive marketing organisation that has designed an uneven competition for the benefit of the interstate clubs, the new clubs, and the large wealthy Vic clubs. We will need everything going for us to beat those odds. If we do, it will be a miracle and indeed Karma for the AFL.

[TGR 1,367]

On 7/19/2016 at 3:54 PM, rjay said:

 

Yes you can say that in hindsight but before they won their first of this run many thought they couldn't because of a slow paced midfield and they proved them wrong.

We have had to do a total rebuild without the draft concessions GWS & GC had and without the senior players that St Kilda and the Doggies have had to build on. We're still a ways off. Yep, I get p...off at times too but we're coming from a longer way back than any other club.

We're on track, I wish it was faster but wishing won't make it so.

Which rebuild?  2nd or 3rd?

 

 

 

[rjay 25,088]

18 minutes ago, TGR said:

Which rebuild?  2nd or 3rd?

 

 

 

The real one with the adults running the club...

[junk 342]

Saints have leaders we don't someone quoted. That is right on the money.  We have to become mentally tougher and it is about time to consequences for bad performances,it is no good the coach is always saying our players need to be educated.

[beelzebub 23,383]

I Wonder if it had just been 'someone' saying we played crap whether many would have focused more on the message than the messenger !

We played crap

[old dee 23,872]

33 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I Wonder if it had just been 'someone' saying we played crap whether many would have focused more on the message than the messenger !

We played crap

Spot on bb.

Since we improved the playing list we seemly cannot say "they played crap".

Who's ego are we protecting?

[Chris 2,892]

1 hour ago, ENYAW said:

Saints have leaders we don't someone quoted. That is right on the money.  We have to become mentally tougher and it is about time to consequences for bad performances,it is no good the coach is always saying our players need to be educated.

Would you prefer the weren't educated?

[Redleg 41,428]

Some stats mislead and others don't.

One stat that is telling is that we are the youngest side, with the least games experience. We were also coming off Darwin. We were playing at our least favourite venue.

I am not shocked we lost.

[TGR 1,367]

For goodness sakes.  We could play St.Kilda 22 times in a year and we would be lucky to win one.  The excuses coming here now, after the fact that they have obliterated us twice, is "general after war" stuff.

 

Not many here rated St.Kilda all year.  Now suddenly their age profile and leadership is a massive factor.  Suddenly we played "crap".  We actually played great footy in the 1st quarter.  

 

Can't we just say that their hardness/pressure in combination with their outside speed just makes our task, with a one speed midfield, nearly impossible at the moment?  Same would go with Bulldogs (full strength) v. Melbourne (full strength).  They would smash us on the outside.

 

Instead of coming out with 'general after war....Mark Robinson...SEN crap', sit back and understand our deficiencies at this stage; and respect an opposition that have it over us.  St.Kilda looked a much better side in that win they got with seconds to go.  St.Kilda looked a much much much better side in our encounter earlier in the year.  St.Kilda looked a much much better side after quarter time last week.

 

 

 

 

[old dee 23,872]

14 minutes ago, TGR said:

For goodness sakes.  We could play St.Kilda 22 times in a year and we would be lucky to win one.  The excuses coming here now, after the fact that they have obliterated us twice, is "general after war" stuff.

 

Not many here rated St.Kilda all year.  Now suddenly their age profile and leadership is a massive factor.  Suddenly we played "crap".  We actually played great footy in the 1st quarter.  

 

Can't we just say that their hardness/pressure in combination with their outside speed just makes our task, with a one speed midfield, nearly impossible at the moment?  Same would go with Bulldogs (full strength) v. Melbourne (full strength).  They would smash us on the outside.

 

Instead of coming out with 'general after war....Mark Robinson...SEN crap', sit back and understand our deficiencies at this stage; and respect an opposition that have it over us.  St.Kilda looked a much better side in that win they got with seconds to go.  St.Kilda looked a much much much better side in our encounter earlier in the year.  St.Kilda looked a much much better side after quarter time last week.

 

 

 

 

Not sure anyone disagrees with you TGR

[praha 11,240]

18 hours ago, DeeZee said:

I'm not really being laughed at anymore.

Now they just pity me.

efa

[praha 11,240]

53 minutes ago, TGR said:

For goodness sakes.  We could play St.Kilda 22 times in a year and we would be lucky to win one.  The excuses coming here now, after the fact that they have obliterated us twice, is "general after war" stuff.

 

Not many here rated St.Kilda all year.  Now suddenly their age profile and leadership is a massive factor.  Suddenly we played "crap".  We actually played great footy in the 1st quarter.  

 

Can't we just say that their hardness/pressure in combination with their outside speed just makes our task, with a one speed midfield, nearly impossible at the moment?  Same would go with Bulldogs (full strength) v. Melbourne (full strength).  They would smash us on the outside.

 

Instead of coming out with 'general after war....Mark Robinson...SEN crap', sit back and understand our deficiencies at this stage; and respect an opposition that have it over us.  St.Kilda looked a much better side in that win they got with seconds to go.  St.Kilda looked a much much much better side in our encounter earlier in the year.  St.Kilda looked a much much better side after quarter time last week.

 

 

 

 

Well the problem is that we are actually at near full strength, and have been all year. Few injuries and plenty of talent knocking down the door from the VFL, but it makes little difference when we come up against teams that sit directly above us on the ladder (Port, Saints, Eagles this week). The likes of Richmond, Collingwood and North if you consider them a bottom 10 side have played better football for longer periods than we have. We notch up one win and then get absolutely smacked the following. Somehow, Carlton notched up 4 or 5 wins in a row and could very well finish above us on the ladder. Maybe it's just me but I can't remember a team in the modern era (1990-now) ever having such a major gap in performances in such short periods of time. Sure, Carlton and the Saints have been smacked a few times this year, but they've also gone through long periods where they have played at a really high standard and beaten some good teams. We switch on and off at a really concerning rate and to me I just can't quite understand it. I don't think it's a speed or pressure or hardness issue...well, it is, but I think what's driving that deficiency is 100% between the ears.

We played Neeld-era football on Sunday. It was a 10-goal loss had the Saints been switched on in the first (they weren't: go and watch the replay). Our leaders missed easy goals and stopped running IN THE SECOND QUARTER! 

"It is what it is."

What it is, is astonishing. I'm filthy after Sunday's loss. I really just want to go up to guys like TMac, N Jones, Watts, shake them as hard as I can and say, "AREN'T YOU SICK OF LOSING LIKE THIS!?"

Too many individuals who go into a shell. We play shocking team football atm. That's the stigma that infects a player's mind when they pull on a Melbourne jumper. It's not a "team" worth dying for.

We're going to lose again this week. We're going to get run over, spread, mutilated. Because we're not a team that wins in Perth. It's just not what we do.

Edited July 22, 2016 by praha