Just now, Tough Kent said:

Last thing I'll say on this because I haven't got all day to trade quotes with you Stuie. Our list will improve through trading, free agency and continued good drafting. And continuing to be patient. Your argument is flawed because our kids are developing, aren't they? Is the team not improving?

Ok, just to clarify again, I'm talking specifically about our backline, do you think it's improved this year? It's a big need for us in the offseason.

Our backline has gone from our biggest strength to our biggest weakness, so no, my argument is not flawed.

 

I think losing Melksham, the form fall of Dunn and injury to Lamumba has robbed us of a lot of experience and leadership in the backline.

The result of this is OMac, Hunt and Wagner have had to step up earlier in their development than would have been planned for. 

31 minutes ago, Tough Kent said:

This is why Oscar, Harmes, etc. are given games when they are perhaps not at their best. The coaches want to show faith in these boys and get them playing games together. Playing a Grimes might help us slightly in the short term, but it's all about building a side that can compete for higher stakes long term.

So we are basically doing a CS blue print but under a new coach with new players. Love the kids but not going to threaten anyone outside of the bottoms 8 or make finals with such an inexperienced list. Time to top up with some experience and big bodies who can play decent possession plus run and gun footy off HB.

We have a chance to become a serious AFL club that can beat even the likes of the Hawks of we get the mix of youth/experience right in the upcoming drafts. Hope we don't blow it.

On 6/8/2016 at 10:57 AM, PaulRB said:

I think losing Melksham, the form fall of Dunn and injury to Lamumba has robbed us of a lot of experience and leadership in the backline.

The result of this is OMac, Hunt and Wagner have had to step up earlier in their development than would have been planned for. 

I really like Jayden Hunt and i think even if those three were all in and in form he'd still be in the side.

1 minute ago, Abe said:

I really like Jayden Hunt and i think even if those three were all in and in form he'd still be in the side.

I like Hunt as well. I think if Melksham and Lamumba were holding down the HBFs then Hunt would have been groomed and come in on the wing... 

13 minutes ago, stuie said:

Ok, just to clarify again, I'm talking specifically about our backline, do you think it's improved this year? It's a big need for us in the offseason.

Our backline has gone from our biggest strength to our biggest weakness, so no, my argument is not flawed.

 

Losing Frawley left a hole in the backline that needs to be fixed.

Was always going to happen and I'm sure (I hope) the FD could see it coming...hopefully they have it in hand.

As you say it's a big need for us in the offseason.

1 minute ago, rjay said:

Losing Frawley left a hole in the backline that needs to be fixed.

Was always going to happen and I'm sure (I hope) the FD could see it coming...hopefully they have it in hand.

As you say it's a big need for us in the offseason.

Is the MOST important get for the off season imho

2 minutes ago, rjay said:

Losing Frawley left a hole in the backline that needs to be fixed.

Was always going to happen and I'm sure (I hope) the FD could see it coming...hopefully they have it in hand.

As you say it's a big need for us in the offseason.

Spot on rjay

59 minutes ago, rjay said:

Losing Frawley left a hole in the backline that needs to be fixed.

Was always going to happen and I'm sure (I hope) the FD could see it coming...hopefully they have it in hand.

As you say it's a big need for us in the offseason.

Rjay I wish he was only lost. He was stolen.... how the hell does a club's top 5/10 players end up at a top 4 club already winning premierships?

Buddy to Swans.

Like these clubs need another leg up. Struggling not!

Top 4, from previous season, should not be eligible for free agency coming In.

 

Edited June 8, 20168 yr by Rusty Nails

As a matter of interest, would the median age / games played provide a different perspective?

9 hours ago, Abe said:

I really like Jayden Hunt and i think even if those three were all in and in form he'd still be in the side.

Hunt and Wagner are very good gets Abe.

Even Omac at some point should be ok but is a WIP at the moment and needs to build an AFL body over a few pre seasons before he will be capable of playing consistently good footy/holding his own against the big boys (ie., top 8/top 6 clubs).

To play 4 players who have all played on average less than 50 games in defence around some slightly more experienced players in TMac and Nev is always going to result in some severe bleeding down back against the better (top 8/6 clubs) most of the time. Might look good and win a few against those lower down but you need more experience and bigger bodies to get the consistency right. Sometimes the young blokes will all click, along with the older 2, and it will all seem like it's coming together and everyone will rant that it's working but this is usually only against the lessor forward lines/clubs.

Play a few youngsters down back for sure, especially when short of options/talent at Casey, but we need to find one or 2 extra experienced guys to fill for next year as BZ said while slowly developing/blooding the young blokes in and out of Casey.

Edited June 8, 20168 yr by Rusty Nails

We should engage a good cosmetic surgeon to make Melksham resemble Terlich then play him in our backline. The AFL doesn't have player fingerprints or DNA so it might just work. Terls can have a holiday.

1 hour ago, stuie said:

Ok, just to clarify again, I'm talking specifically about our backline, do you think it's improved this year? It's a big need for us in the offseason.

Our backline has gone from our biggest strength to our biggest weakness, so no, my argument is not flawed.

 

Stuie, I think it depends on what your definition of "improved" and "biggest weakness" is, then how this compares to those that have more idea than you and I (i.e. Roos).  I think you will find that Roos is satisfied with our defence, even though it looks that we've taken one step forward and two steps back.

We, the outsiders, often have a very simplistic view when it comes to this sort of stuff.  We're entitled to, as we are the ones that they ask to make financial contributions to the club.  Most of us are over the mediocrity of the past decade (or even longer for some), so are looking for instant results.  Roos was never about instant results, but he is setting up the team so that Goodwin is.

Just now, billy2803 said:

Stuie, I think it depends on what your definition of "improved" and "biggest weakness" is, then how this compares to those that have more idea than you and I (i.e. Roos).  I think you will find that Roos is satisfied with our defence, even though it looks that we've taken one step forward and two steps back.

We, the outsiders, often have a very simplistic view when it comes to this sort of stuff.  We're entitled to, as we are the ones that they ask to make financial contributions to the club.  Most of us are over the mediocrity of the past decade (or even longer for some), so are looking for instant results.  Roos was never about instant results, but he is setting up the team so that Goodwin is.

I think trade time might challenge that notion tbh.

As I've stated, I like Hunt, Wagner and OMac, but my concern is for their proper development by having senior players who can lead them and teach them in that part of the ground.

 

15 minutes ago, stuie said:

I think trade time might challenge that notion tbh.

As I've stated, I like Hunt, Wagner and OMac, but my concern is for their proper development by having senior players who can lead them and teach them in that part of the ground.

 

Roos can't control a lack of senior players when they get suspended for the season (Melksham), receive concussion that puts them out indefinitely (H), or sees them in and out of the team due to injury/form (Garland, who is also part of the LG).  I'm sure having those players this season would've assisted in the development of Frost, OMc and Wagner.

And perhaps Roos rates the current type of development, i.e. playing in the seniors, a lot better than having some our other senior players in the team (i.e. Dunn) playing along side them.

I'm sure you still believe we have gone backwards, but as I said, your definition and Roos' definition would be poles apart.

Roos is getting paid $1.5 Million PA and stuie is paying to go.

I hope Roos has it right or we are 1.5+ down the drain.

The upcoming draft is all about trading and Free Agency for the MFC. 

A helluva lot of experience has left the building. We neeed to replace that age bracket with hardened skill otherwise it will be 2010 all over again. 

Getting 50-60 senior games into a bunch of kids is a waste of time if they just get belted weekly 

i am concerned about this, recruiting Melksham has hurt us badly. We needed his experience in 2016. If TMac goes there is more experience we have to find 

2 hours ago, PaulRB said:

I like Hunt as well. I think if Melksham and Lamumba were holding down the HBFs then Hunt would have been groomed and come in on the wing... 

Which is where I think he will end up. 

21 minutes ago, billy2803 said:

Roos can't control a lack of senior players when they get suspended for the season (Melksham), receive concussion that puts them out indefinitely (H), or sees them in and out of the team due to injury/form (Garland, who is also part of the LG).  I'm sure having those players this season would've assisted in the development of Frost, OMc and Wagner.

And perhaps Roos rates the current type of development, i.e. playing in the seniors, a lot better than having some our other senior players in the team (i.e. Dunn) playing along side them.

I'm sure you still believe we have gone backwards, but as I said, your definition and Roos' definition would be poles apart.

Where have I said we have gone backwards? Don't change the context of the comments Billy.

Overall we have improved, but as I have said, the backline and it's lack of mature players, for whatever reason, is a worry as Roos has said MANY times that development should be a slow steady progress with no pressure on the younger players to carry the team. At the moment, we have a 26 year old and a 23 year old leading a backline full of kids. We've seen in the recent past what relying on the kids does to their development.

 

2 hours ago, stuie said:

Ok, just to clarify again, I'm talking specifically about our backline, do you think it's improved this year? It's a big need for us in the offseason.

Our backline has gone from our biggest strength to our biggest weakness, so no, my argument is not flawed.

 

 

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

Where have I said we have gone backwards? Don't change the context of the comments Billy.

Overall we have improved, but as I have said, the backline and it's lack of mature players, for whatever reason, is a worry as Roos has said MANY times that development should be a slow steady progress with no pressure on the younger players to carry the team. At the moment, we have a 26 year old and a 23 year old leading a backline full of kids. We've seen in the recent past what relying on the kids does to their development.

 

So you're not saying our backline has gone backwards?  What are you saying then?  It has improved?  It has stagnated?

You are making it sound like the only development a player gets is during a game (be it at Senior or Reserves level).  Do you not think a big part of a younger player's development happens during the week also?  The lack of onfield, game day experience is well and truly being made up for by the offield development.  Roos/Goodwin knows that providing H & Melksham can get a solid crack at it in 2017, that they will instantly add 337 games of experience in to it.

I'm all for adding quality to our team, but I don't think it's as drastic as what some are claiming.

Again, at the start of 2016, Roos would've been expecting H, Melksham and Garland to provide this experience you desire.  Between the 3 of them they average 166 games each.  That's a lot of experience that will hopefully be injected Round 1, 2017.  (I would love to inject Hurley in to that group).

 

Melkshem and Hurley would be great injections for next year's backline.

Sound inclusions, lamentable terminology.

26 minutes ago, TRIGON said:

Melkshem and Hurley would be great injections for next year's backline.

Sound inclusions, lamentable terminology.

Pun intended.

43 minutes ago, billy2803 said:

 

So you're not saying our backline has gone backwards?  What are you saying then?  It has improved?  It has stagnated?

 

 

1 hour ago, stuie said:

Where have I said we have gone backwards? Don't change the context of the comments Billy.

Overall we have improved, but as I have said, the backline and it's lack of mature players, for whatever reason, is a worry as Roos has said MANY times that development should be a slow steady progress with no pressure on the younger players to carry the team. At the moment, we have a 26 year old and a 23 year old leading a backline full of kids. We've seen in the recent past what relying on the kids does to their development.

 

Just seeing you obviously didn't read it the first time and seeing you clearly struggle with context.

Overall - We have improved. Backline - Has gone backwards. Do you disagree?

36 minutes ago, stuie said:

 

Just seeing you obviously didn't read it the first time and seeing you clearly struggle with context.

Overall - We have improved. Backline - Has gone backwards. Do you disagree?

How can I agree or disagree?  This was my original point.  You obviously believe it has gone backwards but you're arguing a point that can't be proven.  Further, you are arguing that because we lack experience in the backline, it's having an impact (which has to be negative) on the development of players.

I'm amazed that you don't barrack for Collingwood, given your fetish for things to be black and white.  There's far too many variables with this topic, but as usual, you struggle to have a civilised discussion about a topic where there is more than one right answer. 

Just now, billy2803 said:

How can I agree or disagree?  This was my original point.  You obviously believe it has gone backwards but you're arguing a point that can't be proven.  Further, you are arguing that because we lack experience in the backline, it's having an impact (which has to be negative) on the development of players.

I'm amazed that you don't barrack for Collingwood, given your fetish for things to be black and white.  There's far too many variables with this topic, but as usual, you struggle to have a civilised discussion about a topic where there is more than one right answer. 

Right, so that's a lot of posts you've made for someone who doesn't have an opinion then....