12 hours ago, Hogan2014 said:

Part of his development & maturity .. FFS expectation on a kid in his second year playing at FF is ridiculous!

People forget he actually was the reason we won the week before!  Plenty of other experienced players we can blame!

 

Dont worry they are also In the firing line Hogan. D'land leaves no stone unturned! :-D

16 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

As much as i love PJ, he too continually refers to Melbourne supporters having a victim mentality and that we need to shed it.

I'd counter, the reason why we continue to have such an outlook is not because of the past, but because of the present and the continual sh!t efforts that are perpetually given. We are yet to win 2 games in a row under both PR and PJ regime (alarming no matter which way you look at it), and the only times we look like we truly give a damn is after abhorrent losses. 

Agree 100 %

18 hours ago, nutbean said:

He is half right - his body language and some efforts are not what they should be.

I get that I too would get frustrated with the way the ball comes in but you whether it hits you lace out or misses you by metres ( which is usually the case) you go out at it the same way.

It is interesting that I noticed it during the NAB challenge as well but did not notice it at all last year.

He did do it a couple of times last year, but not to the extent of Saturday's game. I remember Jaded rightly pointing out he was becoming petulant on more than one occasion last season.

Lacks maturity on field but has only played 22 games FFS.

Since the conjecture has arisen about whether JH will re-new his contract with the MFC or not, I have held the view that money alone will not keep him at Melbourne.  In my opinion, the driving force behind any decision Jesse may make, will be the performance of the team and a clear indication of progression, with the team being realistically on track to play finals in the not too distant future.  While that may be a reasonable expectation for any professional footballer to have, with a view to their future job satisfaction, Jesse surely understands he has a crucial stakeholding in the direction he wants to see his side take.  If he's simply ambivalent - and obviously I can't say he is or he isn't - then his long term tenure at the MFC may become a very real concern.

In short, Jesse must also be part of the solution and not sit back and think he will get what he wants by his team mates doing it all for him

15 minutes ago, Pipefitter said:

Lacks maturity on field but has only played 22 games FFS.

Yes. So we either nip it in the bud now, or accommodate him and end up with a monstrous prima donna on our hands.

There's an element of Frawley-ism creeping back into the team. The whole "waiting for improvement" copout, while refusing to accept their own inability to compete is a big part of the problem.

It was Frawley two years ago, Howe last year. I'd hate to see the same crap from Tom McDonald and Hogan from here on. Be a part of the solution, not the problem!

2 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

There's an element of Frawley-ism creeping back into the team. The whole "waiting for improvement" copout, while refusing to accept their own inability to compete is a big part of the problem.

It was Frawley two years ago, Howe last year. I'd hate to see the same crap from Tom McDonald and Hogan from here on. Be a part of the solution, not the problem!

This, precisely. I've been wondering how long it would take for us to twig to the fact that these guys take absolutely no responsibility for team improvement, then say the team hasn't improved and I'm out of here. Jesse could pretty much single handedly ensure that we win 2-4 games more than we will if he stands around scratching himself in the forward line.

Sadly you wonder if winning the Rising Star was a poisoned chalice. You certainly don't see Cripps lowering his head despite some bad losses this year, he's just getting on with [censored].

3 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

Sadly you wonder if winning the Rising Star was a poisoned chalice. You certainly don't see Cripps lowering his head despite some bad losses this year, he's just getting on with [censored].

I sorta wonderd that myself. There are reports that Hogan comes back in poor condition while Cripps puts on 6kg of muscle and comes back in ripping shape and you can now see the benefits as he has had a great start to the year while Hohan has been poor.

Let Hogans be Hogans, he was pantsed on the weekend, he'll come back from it, watch out Norf.

Calling to be dropped is absolute kneejerk absurdity.

close thread.

47 minutes ago, Pipefitter said:

Lacks maturity on field but has only played 22 games FFS.

there is lacking maturity by not running to the right spot, being out muscled, dropping a mark or missing a target. And then there is immaturity in attitude - dropping the head, lacking 2nd efforts and remonstrating with umpires and players. .

Many players suffer from the 1st type of immaturity - not a great deal suffer from the second.( although there have been some classics over the time)

I think all of us will cut him slack as he is young and only played a handful of games but there is a difference between cutting a player some slack and ignoring something that needs to be fixed.

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Of course you are allowed to give your opinion. But at least get it right first you hack.

If you actually take the time and watched the game properly the message was quite clear from last week that the forward line had to be be much more open. Pederson started at CHF and played more further upfield. 

Not once did Pedersen get in his way at all. The problem was the constant bombing it in to Hogan where Essendon had crowded quickly, Hogan not leading properly, and poor delivery into our forward fifty. Those were just some of the examples of why Hogan had a bad day.

If your going to try and call a player out at least have a valid argument to back it up like i do with Garland and McDonald. 

The one quarter so far this year that our forward line functioned well, was the one quarter Pedersen played in the backline.

How's that for a valid argument you hack.

Also, that wasn't even your point. You were having a crack for me making comments about Pedersen, and I'll tell you now, my post count talking about him is FAR FAR less than your whinging about Garland. So give it a rest pal.

 

Edited April 5, 20169 yr by stuie

He may be only 21 but this is his 4th year with the club. Most of that time with Roos then Goodwin and Macca.  So he has as much experience as Viney and a lot more than the likes of Vand, Brayshaw, Salem etc.  So I don't think we can make excuses for him based on age or maturity. 

I can cut him some slack on Saturday for not doing the 1% because he had treatment at the end of the 1st qtr.   But he does need to think very hard about his onfield antics and the affect on teammates.

And I would like to see some of our leaders: Jones, Viney, or Gawn go up to him occasionally on field and pat him on the head and say 'don't worry about it mate' just keep it simple and go for the next ball.  Which is exactly what the coaches are trying to tell him.  Leaders need to keep an eye on the younger guys on the field to help them when frustration sets in.

Edited April 5, 20169 yr by Lucifer's Hero

I'm sure there's plenty of work/effort happening that I'm unaware of PG and sounds like he Is on track. Its up to the team to win games collectivly as a whole. It should never be on one persons (or a few) shoulders. 

If they can Improve the speed, accuracy and decision making when delivering Inside 50 then I think we will see the real hogan start to shine.

At the moment Its a bit messy. Too congested. Other forwards leading their opponents to the hot spots and Into his space at times Isnt helping. But at times he also needs to lead his player away from the hot zones to make space for others behind etc. No doubt Roos & the FD have this covered anyway. Just a matter of getting it to work effectively and executing on the day. A fit Dawes wld also be handy!

13 minutes ago, stuie said:

The one quarter so far this year that our forward line functioned well, was the one quarter Pedersen played in the backline.

How's that for a valid argument you hack.

Also, that wasn't even your point. You were having a crack for me making comments about Pedersen, and I'll tell you now, my post count talking about him is FAR FAR less than your whinging about Garland. So give it a rest pal.

 

So when Pedersen went into the ruck and Gawn went to the bench where was our forward structure? nothing changed there.. at all. I pointed out to your that Pedersen was playing up field and the forward 50 was much more open. It was a clear message from last week. Pedo did what was asked and yet you still find something to sook about just because you dont like him. You tried to pump up Frost on here to everyone saying he was a better option and that backfired on you. 

Fact is we simply don't have anyone else better to play that 2nd forward role. Frost is clueless up forward. We recruited him as a backman so play him down there, again coaches have simply got this one wrong. Dawes is injured... 

Now the difference with Garland argument to yours is every single game Garland makes basic fundamental mistakes every single week. It costs us goals and for someone who is suppose to be a leader he drops his head and goes into his shell. He has not improved for the last 3 years at all. How are players ment to look to their leaders like McDonald and Garland to lead when they are the ones making simple errors that turn into goals. 

Garland is a liability to our side plain and simple. I wish Roosy would bite the bullet and drop him and give Frost a go down back. He'll actually give us some run and dash out of defence and is much stronger one on one then Garland.

9 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

So when Pedersen went into the ruck and Gawn went to the bench where was our forward structure? nothing changed there.. at all. I pointed out to your that Pedersen was playing up field and the forward 50 was much more open. It was a clear message from last week. Pedo did what was asked and yet you still find something to sook about just because you dont like him. You tried to pump up Frost on here to everyone saying he was a better option and that backfired on you. 

Fact is we simply don't have anyone else better to play that 2nd forward role. Frost is clueless up forward. We recruited him as a backman so play him down there, again coaches have simply got this one wrong. Dawes is injured... 

Now the difference with Garland argument to yours is every single game Garland makes basic fundamental mistakes every single week. It costs us goals and for someone who is suppose to be a leader he drops his head and goes into his shell. He has not improved for the last 3 years at all. How are players ment to look to their leaders like McDonald and Garland to lead when they are the ones making simple errors that turn into goals. 

Garland is a liability to our side plain and simple. I wish Roosy would bite the bullet and drop him and give Frost a go down back. He'll actually give us some run and dash out of defence and is much stronger one on one then Garland.

Did you see the game on the weekend? See how the forward line went? Please tell me more about how good an option Pedo was and how we were so much better without Frost... You do remember we lost right? Or was that all Garland's fault? Did you see Pedo's kicks into the 50? Ask Jesse Hogan what he thinks of them.... But yeah, you're right, all Garland's fault of course.

But kudos for you for making ANOTHER post all about Garland and finding "something to sook about just because you dont like him".

 

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

Did you see the game on the weekend? See how the forward line went? Please tell me more about how good an option Pedo was and how we were so much better without Frost... You do remember we lost right? Or was that all Garland's fault? Did you see Pedo's kicks into the 50? Ask Jesse Hogan what he thinks of them.... But yeah, you're right, all Garland's fault of course.

But kudos for you for making ANOTHER post all about Garland and finding "something to sook about just because you dont like him".

 

Did you see everyone's forward entries into the 50, except Watts? Everyone bombed to ball on top of Hogans head. Don't single out Pedo.

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

Did you see the game on the weekend? See how the forward line went? Please tell me more about how good an option Pedo was and how we were so much better without Frost... You do remember we lost right? Or was that all Garland's fault? Did you see Pedo's kicks into the 50? Ask Jesse Hogan what he thinks of them.... But yeah, you're right, all Garland's fault of course.

But kudos for you for making ANOTHER post all about Garland and finding "something to sook about just because you dont like him".

 

You are [censored] clueless as usual. Missed the point completely what i was trying to make out to you simpleton.

Seriously ENYAW makes more sense then you and thats saying something.

bye

I watched on Saturday and saw him trudging around just genuinely frustrated with himself and everything which didn't go his way.  His body language was poor and it was as if he was feeling sorry for himself that nothing was going his way.  IMO he needs to be played further up the ground to get a more of a free run and whilst it may rob us of a FF it will bring our greatest weapon into the game.

Whilst I was frustrated on Saturday watching myself I think he may be feeling pressure for the first time in his young life, there was no need for him to enter into any sort of to and from comments with the Ox, he is having a lot more work put into him by opposition, Dawes as bad as he can be always provided greater forward pressure and would at least prevent defenders peeling off, he is under massive media scrutiny for his performance and his contract status and probably for the first time in his young life he is being challenged mentally.  

Taking all this into account and his age gives me reason to cut him some slack, I am sure the FD is aware of this and working with him to address everything both on and off the field.

Edited April 5, 20169 yr by Grapeviney

12 minutes ago, Devil is in the Detail said:

Did you see everyone's forward entries into the 50, except Watts? Everyone bombed to ball on top of Hogans head. Don't single out Pedo.

Clearly wasn't just Pedo that did that, but the context of the conversation is talking specifically about that player.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Devil is in the Detail said:

Did you see everyone's forward entries into the 50, except Watts? Everyone bombed to ball on top of Hogans head. Don't single out Pedo.

Don't bother mate. According to that nuffy its Pedo's fault that Hogan had a shitfull day because 'he got in his way'... While trying to point out that there were many worse examples why Hogan had a bad day at the office.

13 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

You are [censored] clueless as usual. Missed the point completely what i was trying to make out to you simpleton.

Seriously ENYAW makes more sense then you and thats saying something.

bye

On 4/5/2016 at 11:29 AM, stuie said:

Did you see the game on the weekend? See how the forward line went? Please tell me more about how good an option Pedo was and how we were so much better without Frost... You do remember we lost right? Or was that all Garland's fault? Did you see Pedo's kicks into the 50? Ask Jesse Hogan what he thinks of them.... But yeah, you're right, all Garland's fault of course.

But kudos for you for making ANOTHER post all about Garland and finding "something to sook about just because you dont like him".

 

As i am sure you're aware this has far more to do with the horrible efforts of the midfield and half backs bombing the ball long and high over and over than any one player, Wayne Carey would struggle with the delivery we were serving up so i don't think it's fair to judge  the way the forward line structure works until we see it with the midfield delivering the ball well, the biggest difference you'll see from the last quarter against the Giants isn't as you suggest based on the fact they cleared Pedo out, it's based on the fact we actually kicked the ball to targets instead of bombing it long.

Neither Pedo or Garland is totally to blame for our efforts, as a team we're not doing the basics well enough, often enough

 

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

Don't bother mate. According to that nuffy its Pedo's fault that Hogan had a shitfull day because 'he got in his way'... While trying to point out that there were many worse examples why Hogan had a bad day at the office.

And we lost because of Garland apparently...