9 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

After starting the year very well he has gone backwards, Collingwood have got a lot more value out of Howe.

I wouldn't be upset if we looked to trade him for a late draft pick (if anyone would want him).

Can't see us trading him after one season.

I think he can still come on and shows some glimpses of quality, just needs consistency. It may be found in better fitness.

18 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

After starting the year very well he has gone backwards, Collingwood have got a lot more value out of Howe.

I wouldn't be upset if we looked to trade him for a late draft pick (if anyone would want him).

We only got him for a late round pick, swapped him for Toumpas and he's just better than the Toump. Collingwood gave a lot more for Howe.

He's ok for depth. Seemingly will never be a consistent ball user or decision maker. Wins the ball pretty well. A lot depends on his preseason and if he can build his tank. If he can and then develops a stronger forward pressure game he'll be handy. 

Thought his first half of the year was very good. Games against GWS, Essendon, Gold Coast (the first time), Collingwood (both times) were very impressive. Seemed to fall out of favour very quickly after that, not sure why, I reckon he's best 22 but the coaches obviously see him in the 20-30 range.

Fans seemed to have jumped off him very quickly. We're not going to be trading him away for peanuts after one season. There also seems to be this misconception that it was a straight swap for Howe. It wasn't at all. pick 29 was the key to the Howe trade because it allowed us to swap picks around with the Gold Coast, one of which secured us Oliver (the Suns got Ah Chee, I know who I'd prefer). It's like saying Adelaide got Dean Gore for Dangerfield. Just thought I'd clear that up.

46 minutes ago, Sylvia Saint said:

Thought his first half of the year was very good. Games against GWS, Essendon, Gold Coast (the first time), Collingwood (both times) were very impressive. Seemed to fall out of favour very quickly after that, not sure why, I reckon he's best 22 but the coaches obviously see him in the 20-30 range.

Fans seemed to have jumped off him very quickly. We're not going to be trading him away for peanuts after one season. There also seems to be this misconception that it was a straight swap for Howe. It wasn't at all. pick 29 was the key to the Howe trade because it allowed us to swap picks around with the Gold Coast, one of which secured us Oliver (the Suns got Ah Chee, I know who I'd prefer). It's like saying Adelaide got Dean Gore for Dangerfield. Just thought I'd clear that up.

I don't get BenKen. He really looked the goods in a few AFL games early in the season. But he's had a really poor finish. What I don't like about him is that he doesn't seem to be a one-touch player - he seems to need a bit of time to gather the ball, and a bit more time to work out what to do with it. That little bit of time simply isn't available at AFL level, and it certainly wasn't available today.

There was a passage in an earlier VFL game, I think it was against Sandy, where he had a bit of space about 20m out from goal. It needed one-grab, turn, and easy goal. But he fumbled it, by which time he was under pressure, so when he did pick it up his handball was smothered, but the ball came straight back to him. Again, he needed one grab and turn and goal, but again he fumbled it. He's got great courage, but he's just not clean enough for AFL. Same as Newton & Michie.

Has talent but doesn't work hard enough to get to enough contests.

Like Neal-Bullen, he's a VFL player. 

11 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Like Neal-Bullen, he's a VFL player. 

Do you think VFL players can't progress to become AFL players?

1 hour ago, Django said:

Do you think VFL players can't progress to become AFL players?

No.

Silly question. 

2 hours ago, Django said:

Do you think VFL players can't progress to become AFL players?

Only if:

(a) They work incredibly hard

(b) They develop new tricks (e.g one-grab ball-handling or elite disposal).

In other words, extremely unlikely.

Same applies to fringe players traded in from other clubs. 

 

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

No.

Silly question. 

So do you think Neal-Bullen or Kennedy will make it as AFL players? Because there are a number of AFL teams that Neal-Bullen would have been given regular games in this season. I think he'll grow his game to a point where he'll be playing in our seniors, or someone else's.

 

27 minutes ago, Akum said:

Only if:

(a) They work incredibly hard

(b) They develop new tricks (e.g one-grab ball-handling or elite disposal).

In other words, extremely unlikely.

Same applies to fringe players traded in from other clubs. 

 

This is my sentiment exactly. It can be done, and an example that matches your requirements as above is Neville Jetta. Another is Jayden Hunt, who a lot on here were calling to be delisted.

Sadly another trade we lost out in. 

Kennedy's got four years on Howe so let's hope for some improvement. 

Tried to do too much early in the game and burned teammates & opportunities.

I don't believe the doggies have simply managed to nail every single draft pick - it has to be their training and teaching methods. Things like this "handball club" have certainly helped their players to all become proficient at cleanliness and releasing the footy effectively when tackled.

Obviously their skills focuses are bang on, and it's something we should be reviewing.

14 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

After starting the year very well he has gone backwards, Collingwood have got a lot more value out of Howe.

I wouldn't be upset if we looked to trade him for a late draft pick (if anyone would want him).

The 'counterfactual' is not Melbourne still having Howe, so how Howe went at Collingwood is irrelevant.  He was gone regardless.

36 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

I don't believe the doggies have simply managed to nail every single draft pick - it has to be their training and teaching methods. Things like this "handball club" have certainly helped their players to all become proficient at cleanliness and releasing the footy effectively when tackled.

Obviously their skills focuses are bang on, and it's something we should be reviewing.

It's also how they set up around stoppages, and what they do with the ball once they get it.

The other thing is how the coaches plan and prepare, especially if they're underdogs, but even if they're favourites. Even if it's "only" the VFL. We do so little preparation when we're favourites, we didn't even work out which of Lin Jong's shoulders was injured, and we're a media laughingstock this morning for it.

We smashed them by 70 points in the earlier final, by being able to run it through the middle of the ground. The key for this was ANB. They know that Clarrie's a much better player and can do much more damage as an individual. But they correctly figured out that to stop us winning they had to stop us running it through the middle, and they could live with Clarrie doing damage around clearances, but that none of the other mids was up to it. I think Salem in combination with Clarrie could have been a real danger for them, but that didn't eventuate. 

They leave nothing to chance. And the quality of their planning & preparation - and the players'  confidence in it - will mean they'll do a lot better against the Swans than we expect.

9 minutes ago, Nasher said:

The 'counterfactual' is not Melbourne still having Howe, so how Howe went at Collingwood is irrelevant.  He was gone regardless.

Either way, Kennedy has been poor.

It's funny because when he started  playing with us we all thought we had found a little gem.

4 years into his AFL career he still clearly has no idea what is required to be successful at AFL level. He massively overrates his own ability with ball in hand, and tries to do too much, and conversely doesn't do nearly enough defensively. He has the talent to make it, but not the workrate.

He should made be made to sit and watch tapes of Caleb Daniel for the next 2 months, and then spend the next 4 months getting himself incredibly fit so that he can match Daniel's work rate and intensity for a full game.

Right at this moment his worth to the senior side is on par with Dean Terlich's, and we all know what will happen to Terlich over the next fortnight. Kenendy is just lucky he has a contract.

he works hard but he's limited.

 

he's always going to be an in-and-out player.

2 hours ago, Mach5 said:

I don't believe the doggies have simply managed to nail every single draft pick - it has to be their training and teaching methods. Things like this "handball club" have certainly helped their players to all become proficient at cleanliness and releasing the footy effectively when tackled.

Obviously their skills focuses are bang on, and it's something we should be reviewing.

Interesting segment in SEN going through every clubs national draft and rookie draft picks over the past four or five years. 

Bulldogs were the highest rated when it came to drafting. From memory they had a 54% success rate with pics. I think the next best was 39%. 

Plus father sons have helped them out greatly. 

1 minute ago, Flamingdees said:

Interesting segment in SEN going through every clubs national draft and rookie draft picks over the past four or five years. 

Bulldogs were the highest rated when it came to drafting. From memory they had a 54% success rate with pics. I think the next best was 39%. 

Yep, and a ridiculously high success rate with rookies, which says to me that their development  & training is spot on.

2 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

Yep, and a ridiculously high success rate with rookies, which says to me that their development  & training is spot on.

I remember watching them on the weekend and seeing so much in what they do being what Macca teaches the players in his small groups at training, gettting low when attacking the ground ball and so on, they're taught to play inside and outside footy the right way from the start and they develop well into at least solid role players, which allows them to have 35 players on their list ready to step up at play a role at AFL level at any moment.

11 hours ago, Django said:

So do you think Neal-Bullen or Kennedy will make it as AFL players? Because there are a number of AFL teams that Neal-Bullen would have been given regular games in this season. I think he'll grow his game to a point where he'll be playing in our seniors, or someone else's.

No I don't. 

Kennedy is depth.  At 2 clubs he's shown that he can't consistently impact games and has obvious limitations. 

And I just don't rate Neal-Bullen.  He has an excellent tank, but horrible disposal under pressure.  He fumbles, panics and makes poor decisions. 

If he ends up making it great, but it's my considered opinion that he won't. 

I hope and trust this view doesn't cause offence.

2 hours ago, ProDee said:

No I don't. 

Kennedy is depth.  At 2 clubs he's shown that he can't consistently impact games and has obvious limitations. 

And I just don't rate Neal-Bullen.  He has an excellent tank, but horrible disposal under pressure.  He fumbles, panics and makes poor decisions. 

If he ends up making it great, but it's my considered opinion that he won't. 

I hope and trust this view doesn't cause offence.

I'm more inclined to think that Kennedy won't, unless something drastically changes.

Neal-Bullen I think is on a trajectory to make it, even if it's not necessarily with Melbourne. I think he can adapt and has improved quite a bit since last season (albeit at VFL level) IMO.

 

 

Oh, and your opinion offends me deeply.