Don't agree with this. As an Insider its easy to get to the ball. Essentially watch your immediate matchups and run where the ball is. Outsiders have to learn where to run to. In order to be able to do this they have to learn to read the whole game and their team mates to know where they are going to kick to and to know where to run to so that you become an outside option. It's a much tougher gig. Doubly as hard in a team where they rarely play to a game plan or are slowly learning it so that it's very hard to read the play. I know that several players have complained about how impossible this has been in the past.

I think that last bit hit the nail on the head.

Billy Hartung for the hawks doesn't win much inside footy at all. And whilst he's tough and has a crack he could easily play most of the year (not sure about Sept) without winning a lot of contested footy and without making perfect decisions on where to run (he's got elite endurance and probably makes good decisions though).

Coming in to Melbourne the last few years (or more) it wouldn't have been easy to just know where to run and you would have had to win contested ball as well because there just hasn't been enough free flowing footy.

And to make things more difficult for Toump unlike Hartung or Brad Hill for the Hawks his fitness wasn't at it's best due to injury.

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed Toumpas is striding out a lot better in his running now instead of shuffling? I think he's picking up the tempo and not running himself in to the ground and then when he needs to make an effort he's got more burst.

Don't agree with this. As an Insider its easy to get to the ball. Essentially watch your immediate matchups and run where the ball is. Outsiders have to learn where to run to. In order to be able to do this they have to learn to read the whole game and their team mates to know where they are going to kick to and to know where to run to so that you become an outside option. It's a much tougher gig. Doubly as hard in a team where they rarely play to a game plan or are slowly learning it so that it's very hard to read the play. I know that several players have complained about how impossible this has been in the past.

I think you're missing KDA's point. The way the game is played, it's difficult to survive in the AFL purely as an outside mid. You need to be highly skilled and have some tricks to your game. But once you become damaging, you'll invariably get tagged, hence you'll have to win contested ball. Stephen Hill and Lewis Jetta are prime examples. Both struggled when tagged, and Hill in particular has become a more rounded player.

I've never questioned Toumpas' courage or workrate. He struggles with his decision making under perceived pressure, because he either lacks the confidence or tricks to his game to get out of tight situations. The passage where he side-stepped a Saints player and handballed to Viney? who kicked a goal, is something that we need to see more of before being convinced he'll become an A or B Grader.

I think you're missing KDA's point. The way the game is played, it's difficult to survive in the AFL purely as an outside mid. You need to be highly skilled and have some tricks to your game. But once you become damaging, you'll invariably get tagged, hence you'll have to win contested ball. Stephen Hill and Lewis Jetta are prime examples. Both struggled when tagged, and Hill in particular has become a more rounded player.

I've never questioned Toumpas' courage or workrate. He struggles with his decision making under perceived pressure, because he either lacks the confidence or tricks to his game to get out of tight situations. The passage where he side-stepped a Saints player and handballed to Viney? who kicked a goal, is something that we need to see more of before being convinced he'll become an A or B Grader.

Two different issues but I agree with your first point. Roosy said a week or so ago when asked about what type of players to recruit that the fundamentals of the game haven't changed in 40yrs. You have to be able to get the ball and you have to be able to run. vandenBurg, Petracca, Brayshaw, Michie, Riley. All have a similar theme. Big bodies able to get their own ball whether inside or out.

This is a different issue to KDA's point that outsiders take longer to develop than insiders.

Long way to go

O think Tapscott played a good game once as well

Long way to go

O think Tapscott played a good game once as well

yeah one. Toumpas has played a few now.

Comparison not applicable.

Below is what I wrote last year as part of mid-season review and little has changed.

We saw the nice side-step in his hand off to Viney on the weekend and it appears he's now getting more time in the middle - ie: Roosy has realised he's cannon-fodder as an outside mid because he lacks explosive pace.

But that doesn't mean he won't make it, it just means he won't make it as the player we were drafting in 2011. He may yet be a very handy inside-mid and he possesses a bit of the Brian Wilson-type hips that will help him cope with the tackling pressure. He is a nice kick (not a long one though), so he has some potential inside and saves most of us from complaining about him getting caught when on the wing.

The panic issue may also go once he finds himself constantly in the thick of it.

He could end up being quite useful, but I'm not so sure whether he will become a smart link player like Glenn Lovett, who also started his career slowly before developing into a very reliable midfielder.

The good thing is that he's getting a few games now which means we won't all die wondering about whether he was fatally flawed.

Jimmy Toumpas – We all need to get over the fact that Jimmy was taken as an outside mid with speed. He has a good workrate, has a nice sidestep, has great vision and is a deadly accurate kick and every club needs a few characters. But if he is going to make it as a bigtime player, he is going to have to work on his speed and like Trengove needs Matt Shirvington or some other highly-rated sprint coach to come in and help him find the extra yard. Otherwise he’ll have to make it as an inside-mid, which is not beyond him, but is a very hard gig.

yeah one. Toumpas has played a few now.

Comparison not applicable.

The comparison is justified, he does raise a good point.

Toumpas has only had 1 good game.

Tapscott never did, so I don't think the comparison is apt at all. Jimmy's game against St Kilda was so far and away better than anything Tapscott ever delivered that it isn't even funny.

The comparison is justified, he does raise a good point.

Toumpas has only had 1 good game.

He's played 3 good games this year.

Dogs, Pies, Saints. He also played well vs. Geelong in 2013.

The comparison is justified, he does raise a good point.

Toumpas has only had 1 good game.

Wrong.

His game against Geelong and Adelaide in his first year were impressive aswell.

His game against western bulldogs this year was also a pretty good game again. He has played real since then and i expect he will continue to improve and we will start to see true glimpses of why we took him at pick 4.

Below is what I wrote last year as part of mid-season review and little has changed.

We saw the nice side-step in his hand off to Viney on the weekend and it appears he's now getting more time in the middle - ie: Roosy has realised he's cannon-fodder as an outside mid because he lacks explosive pace.

But that doesn't mean he won't make it, it just means he won't make it as the player we were drafting in 2011. He may yet be a very handy inside-mid and he possesses a bit of the Brian Wilson-type hips that will help him cope with the tackling pressure. He is a nice kick (not a long one though), so he has some potential inside and saves most of us from complaining about him getting caught when on the wing.

The panic issue may also go once he finds himself constantly in the thick of it.

He could end up being quite useful, but I'm not so sure whether he will become a smart link player like Glenn Lovett, who also started his career slowly before developing into a very reliable midfielder.

The good thing is that he's getting a few games now which means we won't all die wondering about whether he was fatally flawed.

Jimmy Toumpas – We all need to get over the fact that Jimmy was taken as an outside mid with speed. He has a good workrate, has a nice sidestep, has great vision and is a deadly accurate kick and every club needs a few characters. But if he is going to make it as a bigtime player, he is going to have to work on his speed and like Trengove needs Matt Shirvington or some other highly-rated sprint coach to come in and help him find the extra yard. Otherwise he’ll have to make it as an inside-mid, which is not beyond him, but is a very hard gig.

I agree, he is going to have to work on his speed. But I think Toumpas has a fair excuse - slow start to his career due to hip surgery. It takes at least a year to build up the core, and I'm not 100% that he did build up a sufficient core after surgery, as he looked very slow last year. I think if Toumpas can rebuild his core, then he'll gain back some strength through the hips, and hopefully gain back that speed. In fairness to him, he does look stronger through the core this year, but still has some ways go in his overall strength. He needs to put more air into those handballs, is that a strength issue? I'm not sure.. But it is still an issue. Toumpas makes simple mistakes that should be really easy to fix. Enough about his weaknesses though, he does have some really good strengths, is a great kick, and a fantastic user of the football. Hopefully he makes it, would be a massive bonus.

Jimmy Toumpas – We all need to get over the fact that Jimmy was taken as an outside mid with speed. He has a good workrate, has a nice sidestep, has great vision and is a deadly accurate kick and every club needs a few characters. But if he is going to make it as a bigtime player, he is going to have to work on his speed and like Trengove needs Matt Shirvington or some other highly-rated sprint coach to come in and help him find the extra yard. Otherwise he’ll have to make it as an inside-mid, which is not beyond him, but is a very hard gig.

He'll certainly have to work on his speed but not to a crazy extent. In every confident good game he plays he looks quick. When he's chasing tail and not getting the ball he looks slow. Sidebottom is a gun outside mid without a lot of speed. He does have a lot of other great traits (marking, dual sided kicking) but mainly he reads the play so well and has such a great work rate that he can be slow. The other comparison I'll make is Nathan Jones. He went from a pretty slow player in his early years to now playing very fast. More fitness and speed training would've helped with that but mainly it was about adapting to AFL level.

Andrew Gaff might be a top 5 outside mid in the comp and he's not that quick. We certainly need more pace on the field in a lot of spots and a lightning fast wingman would be lovely but mental quickness and work rate beats speed 9 times out of 10. It's why Lewis Jetta barely touched it in last years grand final and why Crossy can tag guys way quicker than him.

The comparison is justified, he does raise a good point.

Toumpas has only had 1 good game.

ONE GOOD GAME?!

wow, glad i don't watch the football through your eyes.

He's played 3 good games this year.

Dogs, Pies, Saints. He also played well vs. Geelong in 2013.

I think Jimmy is coming along nicely, he is making progress. His game is tracking on the right trajectory.

Toumpas will be a good footballer. Given some more time he will be able to sum up a attacking target quickly and hit it instantly more often. You can see this opening up avenues of attack last weekend.

Do you think any player with half a brain would go onto a fan website?

If a player with half a brain did come to our fan website they would lose the other half of their brain fairly quickly reading the stuff posted on here.

If a player with half a brain did come to our fan website they would lose the other half of their brain fairly quickly reading the stuff posted on here.

Good point nutbean

However leaving aside the humour do you think any MFC players would checked out Demonland?

Tapscott never did, so I don't think the comparison is apt at all. Jimmy's game against St Kilda was so far and away better than anything Tapscott ever delivered that it isn't even funny.

Tapscott did have some good games down back (early on). Difference is Tapscott was totally 1 dimensional and Jimmy is not (totally different players).

ONE GOOD GAME?!

wow, glad i don't watch the football through your eyes.

Would tend to agree with that - Toump really has only had one good game (last week). However the confidence comes from him constantly improving over the last few weeks.

Tapscott did have some good games down back (early on). Difference is Tapscott was totally 1 dimensional and Jimmy is not (totally different players).

Tapscott always looked like a footballer, but never played like one. I don't recall him ever playing a really good game. He may have been involved in a good passage of play or a good moment here or there, but he never even played a good game. I'm sorry it probably sounds harsh, but he was never 'in' the game. Toumpas was one of the best players on the ground the other day. I'm not saying his game was the greatest game in the history of the sport, but the Tapscott comparison is just rubbish.

Good point nutbean

However leaving aside the humour do you think any MFC players would checked out Demonland?

If you had a brain you wouldn't support MFC

If you had a brain you wouldn't support MFC

I think you missed the "leaving aside the humour" part but I guess given you don't have a brain we will forgive you

Good point nutbean

However leaving aside the humour do you think any MFC players would checked out Demonland?

Everyone googles themselves at some point - no doubt that would have led them to this place

Everyone googles themselves at some point - no doubt that would have led them to this place

As far as I'm aware, the players get training on that sort of thing and are strongly advised not to read that stuff.

As far as I'm aware, the players get training on that sort of thing and are strongly advised not to read that stuff.

They are, but some still do on occasion.

Certainly plenty of their friends and family do.

As far as I'm aware, the players get training on that sort of thing and are strongly advised not to read that stuff.

Probably do it then...