I'd be taking a good look at both Toumpas and Fitzpatrick.

May have done some good things but both liabilities when either under pressure or if the oposition has the ball.

Rubbish. Both are developing well. Fitzgerald stitched up white - have you not heard the pies supporters complaining about white. This on top of his nullification of Boyd suggests he's playing an important role even if not spectacular,

Re the toumpas, two of three games with 20 plus possession. One of our elite kickers, excellent mark, very quick hands. His few blunders merely a little slower to adjust to speed of game than some. But one of our good youngsters on his way to an excellent future.

Sometimes you got to select the team to win.

I'm all for management (Brayshaw this week) but Tyson could have been the difference in the last.

What's better for the team- QB win or Tyson regaining match fitness at Casey?

Tyson was not the difference. It was our mistakes. Out on the full..goal . Dunnes blunder...goal. Fitz tunnel ball.....goal. Garlands brain fade....goal........do you want more....such as the three very gettable last quarter missed set shots at goal... We had a winning team who shot itself in the foot.

Take Dawes out and you're close 'Andrew'...

I wouldn't be holding any club to ransom when attempting to offload Dawes at years end. My main concern would them taking over his contract.

whats an iPhone ?

Close cousin to the earphone ...

But the coach should see at centre bounces when the opposition has a loose man in defence and we have a loose man in defence, yet each time no player is moved to stop that player loose in our defence.

From the looks of your posts since the game, your view appears to be if we'd simply put Cross on Oxley and Toumpas hadn't have handpassed to Gawn that one time, we'd have won.

You've blown the Toumpas thing completely and horrendously disproportionately out of the water (especially given the gravity of some of the other mistakes made by senior players) whilst the Oxley thing was important, but not as decisive as the skill errors.

And so they should be. St Kilda have had a bette season than Melbourne.

On what basis do you think St Kilda has had a better season so far than us?

They've beaten GC, WB and Brisbane. We've beaten GC (same), WB (same) and Richmond (better than Brisbane).

Their percentage is 6.1% better than ours. That may be because we've played Fremantle, Sydney and Port Adelaide whilst they've played Essendon, Carlton and West Coast in the only three different games so far. In fact, I'm confident if the fixture and percentages were the other way around you'd be saying words to the effect of 'given who we've played, the fact we're only 6.1% in front of St Kilda shows how bad we are'.

We've won 16 quarters to their 12 (which includes 6 first quarters to their 3, first quarters at the very least being quarters where the game isn't over yet).

If anything, we are tracking evenly, but if there's an argument to be made about one being better than the other, it's in our favour, not theirs.

Edited June 9, 201510 yr by titan_uranus

Tyson was not the difference. It was our mistakes. Out on the full..goal . Dunnes blunder...goal. Fitz tunnel ball.....goal. Garlands brain fade....goal........do you want more....such as the three very gettable last quarter missed set shots at goal... We had a winning team who shot itself in the foot.

"Winning team who shot itself in the foot", I like that, agreed.

However on this selection thread, I'm suggesting Roos has selected the sub poorly. Jordie, M Jones.

If you had selection again, would you pick M Jones as sub? Tyson was Casey BOG.

On some occasions, like a huge QB match, Roos should go harder for the win.

"Winning team who shot itself in the foot", I like that, agreed.

However on this selection thread, I'm suggesting Roos has selected the sub poorly. Jordie, M Jones.

If you had selection again, would you pick M Jones as sub? Tyson was Casey BOG.

On some occasions, like a huge QB match, Roos should go harder for the win.

I would have selected Tyson but definitely not as the sub, he would have played in the starting team.

It might surprise some, but Roos selection of sub has to do with who we have available. We don't have any explosive, skilled players to step up and make a difference. If we have them, they are already on the ground.

We are left with the likes of Bail, Jones, McKenzie.

Tyson was not the difference. It was our mistakes. Out on the full..goal . Dunnes blunder...goal. Fitz tunnel ball.....goal. Garlands brain fade....goal........do you want more....such as the three very gettable last quarter missed set shots at goal... We had a winning team who shot itself in the foot.

I'm not saying you did this intentionally, but why is it that everyone is so quick to jump on mistakes by the likes of Fitzy, Watts and Dunn, yet everyone seems to have pushed Viney's dud kick directly to an opposition player 15 metres out dead in front that resulted in a goal, to the back of their minds?

Edited June 9, 201510 yr by hardtack

"Winning team who shot itself in the foot", I like that, agreed.

However on this selection thread, I'm suggesting Roos has selected the sub poorly. Jordie, M Jones.

If you had selection again, would you pick M Jones as sub? Tyson was Casey BOG.

On some occasions, like a huge QB match, Roos should go harder for the win.

I

I'm not against jones on some occasion. His greatest weapon is speed. We were going to need it against a smaller faster team. I love Tyson and would pick him every week. It wasn't jones that Tyson would have replaced. It was newton or Reilly. My guess the club were wanting to see both these guys in a big match. Better to give Tyson a full game at Casey if that was the purpose. They would have hoped for more from newton and Reilly had earnt a full game after the doggies. Give Tyson a full game. Nothing lost with jones as sub but maybe some value if needed. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. But I still believe it was a team loss on the day, not rectified by one change at selection table

I'm not saying you did this intentionally, but why is it that everyone is so quick to jump on mistakes by the likes of Fitzy, Watts and Dunn, yet everyone seems to have pushed Viney's dud kick directly to an opposition player 15 metres out dead in front that resulted in a goal, to the back of their minds?

Watts is easier.

Soft, blah! Blah!

Shits himself, yada! Yada!

Number one pick, omg, omg!

See?

I'm not saying you did this intentionally, but why is it that everyone is so quick to jump on mistakes by the likes of Fitzy, Watts and Dunn, yet everyone seems to have pushed Viney's dud kick directly to an opposition player 15 metres out dead in front that resulted in a goal, to the back of their minds?

He's still pretty new. Your first year or two is like having immunity at Demonland

Give him more time to disappoint us and he will be copping it like the others

I'm not saying you did this intentionally, but why is it that everyone is so quick to jump on mistakes by the likes of Fitzy, Watts and Dunn, yet everyone seems to have pushed Viney's dud kick directly to an opposition player 15 metres out dead in front that resulted in a goal, to the back of their minds?

I like them all and for the record am a fitz man. Have argued earlier for his retention on the strength of his subduing Boyd and white. I merely mentioned a few I could remember easily and explain quickly to point out the goals we obviously gave them. I'm also a believer in toumpas but I think he gave up an easy goal with that aborted goal square kick...I didn't think of it before. Please add vineyard and others. Then there is the thirteen goals from turnovers. It was one of those disastrous days when I think we gift a game we probably played better than they did.

Fair point, Gawn should have told him to turn around becase he was clear. Still, good players have the awareness and know what is around them before they even get the ball.

he's not (toumpas) a good player, yet.

thats the point, he's getting better slowly & needs time to continue adjusting to the tempo of AFL. (he won't adjust to AFL tempo in the VFL) On the weekend he took some good strides in competing.

a long as he & watts show they want to compete physically, then I for one are prepared to give them AFL time to continue adjusting, as long as they're efforts are up there.

when they need to work on some specific skills, or if they drop off on they're efforts, then they should be back at VFL level. & give some others a shot.

Re Toumpas -

He did not tunnel ball the sherrin through the goals. Fitzy fluffed that one

He did not kick it straight to A Collngwood player as Dunn and Viney did imo viney was ordinary, & jetta quiet as well.

He did not let Elliot outmark him in the goalsquare - 2 players 195cms did that actually one player, TMac... TMac pushed off Elliot, hoping he was off balance & out of the contest. TMac was wrong, & TMac should have just minded Elliot. TMac tried to do too much, & came unstuck. I'd say he didn't stick to the game plan, left his man & lost. Fitzy was on his man doing his job.

I get as frustrated as anyone with him but he is worth persevering with.

He needs to take a look at Brayshaw and be prepared to back himself.

But the coach should see at centre bounces when the opposition has a loose man in defence and we have a loose man in defence, yet each time no player is moved to stop that player loose in our defence.

so you want a coach who's reactive, & direct reactive footy, depending on what the opposition do?

or do we persist with Our game plan, & the way we want to play the game?

Toumpas marked the ball 10 metres in the clear, but he handpassed backwards and sideways to a ruckman. That's the not the best option. The best option was to turn around and kick it into our forward line.

I remember a young Wiz Farmer doing this sort of thing when he started, talking a mark in the goal square, & then panicked & hand-balled to Gazza Lyon, who had his back to the young Wizard. a goal resulted, just.

I hope that you are not suggesting that TM and JH heads became swollen by the media accolades. Maybe that has brought more opposition attention and homework on them.

Or, maybe, they just had an off day; someone that happens to every player.

Saints run two ruck men resting one up forward.

yes a little, & loss of focus, & also opposition who don't want to be the latest headline as TMac's next scalp... Hogan too, compared to Jonathon Brown

keep Fitzy in, while Dawes & Frost are off injured. he needs games experience also, as long as he is pulling his own weight. This year is Key for those who need to ramp up they're games & Confidence; & also in a list management way. we need to make some difficult decisions soon. play these kids to see where they are up to, & if its worth persevering.

also some are advertising they're wares, to prospective bidders.

Edited June 9, 201510 yr by dee-luded

Re Toumpas -

He did not tunnel ball the sherrin through the goals. Fitzy fluffed that one

He did not kick it straight to A Collngwood player as Dunn and Viney did imo viney was ordinary, & jetta quiet as well.

He did not let Elliot outmark him in the goalsquare - 2 players 195cms did that actually one player, TMac... TMac pushed off Elliot, hoping he was off balance & out of the contest. TMac was wrong, & TMac should have just minded Elliot. TMac tried to do too much, & came unstuck. I'd say he didn't stick to the game plan, left his man & lost. Fitzy was on his man doing his job.

I get as frustrated as anyone with him but he is worth persevering with.

He needs to take a look at Brayshaw and be prepared to back himself.

But the coach should see at centre bounces when the opposition has a loose man in defence and we have a loose man in defence, yet each time no player is moved to stop that player loose in our defence.

so you want a coach who's reactive, & direct reactive footy, depending on what the opposition do?

or do we persist with Our game plan, & the way we want to play the game?

Toumpas marked the ball 10 metres in the clear, but he handpassed backwards and sideways to a ruckman. That's the not the best option. The best option was to turn around and kick it into our forward line.

I remember a young Wiz Farmer doing this sort of thing when he started, talking a mark in the goal square, & then panicked & hand-balled to Gazza Lyon, who had his back to the young Wizard. a goal resulted, just.

I hope that you are not suggesting that TM and JH heads became swollen by the media accolades. Maybe that has brought more opposition attention and homework on them.

Or, maybe, they just had an off day; someone that happens to every player.

Saints run two ruck men resting one up forward.

yes a little, & loss of focus, & also opposition who don't want to be the latest headline as TMac's next scalp... Hogan too, compared to Jonathon Brown

keep Fitzy in, while Dawes & Frost are off injured. he needs games experience also, as long as he is pulling his own weight. This year is Key for those who need to ramp up they're games & Confidence; & also in a list management way. we need to make some difficult decisions soon. play these kids to see where they are up to, & if its worth persevering.

also some are advertising they're wares, to prospective bidders.

My management policy is pretty simple:

First year player- perhaps don't rely on him to win games Hogans Heros.

Fourth year player- is given plenty of time to recover, bring in as sub to help win important game.

Irrelevant about further injury, that could happen anywhere. Match fitness? Team win first.

why do you have a "management policy"? Have I missed something - who is this No10?

Danny Hughes

From the looks of your posts since the game, your view appears to be if we'd simply put Cross on Oxley and Toumpas hadn't have handpassed to Gawn that one time, we'd have won.

When Oxely was loose in defence Melbourne couldn't score, when he wasn't we could.

It's that simple and was clear for everyone to see, were you at the game?

Edited June 9, 201510 yr by Clint Bizkit

"Sam Frost Toe 5 weeks"

So Frost is Still 4 -6 weeks been that for 8 weeks now

When Oxely was loose in defence Melbourne couldn't score, when he wasn't we could.

It's that simple and was clear for everyone to see, were you at the game?

No it isn't that simple.

When we didn't have a loose in defence Cloke kicked 4 goals,

When we did have a loose in defence we played attacking proactive football in the 2nd Q

Not everything is as simple as it seems

"Sam Frost Toe 5 weeks"

So Frost is Still 4 -6 weeks been that for 8 weeks now

who knew a toe could be so troublesome. Can't we just cut it off?

Frosty was looking like an excellent pick up for us early on. I throw him, Kent and Salem in the "what a bloody shame" basket, for they were looking awesome this season.

No it isn't that simple.

When we didn't have a loose in defence Cloke kicked 4 goals,

When we did have a loose in defence we played attacking proactive football in the 2nd Q

Not everything is as simple as it seems

Wrong, when we got a run on early in the second quarter it was man-on-man.

On what basis do you think St Kilda has had a better season so far than us?

They've beaten GC, WB and Brisbane. We've beaten GC (same), WB (same) and Richmond (better than Brisbane).

Their percentage is 6.1% better than ours. That may be because we've played Fremantle, Sydney and Port Adelaide whilst they've played Essendon, Carlton and West Coast in the only three different games so far. In fact, I'm confident if the fixture and percentages were the other way around you'd be saying words to the effect of 'given who we've played, the fact we're only 6.1% in front of St Kilda shows how bad we are'.

We've won 16 quarters to their 12 (which includes 6 first quarters to their 3, first quarters at the very least being quarters where the game isn't over yet).

If anything, we are tracking evenly, but if there's an argument to be made about one being better than the other, it's in our favour, not theirs.

Fair points, and If you break it down stats wise, then yes you could argue we've been better than St Kilda.

But I just feel that they seem to be tracking better than us, have less injuries, have been better than us against the good sides (ie. Hawthorn, West Coast, Adelaide), less form fluctuations than us and haven't hit the horrible lows that we have.

I think they will be a bit too good for us on Sunday.

Edited June 9, 201510 yr by Bring-Back-Powell